Y2Kyoto: French Carbon Tax Declared Unconstitutional

Interesting ruling and indicative of how insanely twisted this whole global warming business has become. The problem is not a tax based on fraudlent science, it is that the tax didn't go far enough. Idiots!

in Canaduh the constitution wasnt written with such a provision as the taxes have never been evenly or fairly bourne. and the main purpose of the federal government seems to be to disproportionately redistribute them.

and of course Charest wanted to emphasis this feature upfront in his carbon tax statement.

What this reveals is that carbon taxes are a way of extracting more taxes from a compliant populace than an effort to tackle emissions. People have been softened up by decades of scaremongering, so they might be persuaded to fork over more of their income to "carbon" taxes under the illusion that this would help preserve the planet. However, the French example shows that the only ones burdened by the tax were to be the ordinary citizens who depend on energy for the mundane activities of cooking and getting to and from work. The major emitters got off scot free. Would that our Senate have the same abilities to skewer bad laws.

Little by little I hope that the scam of climate laws is being revealed to all--not just the few who have been following the stories about Climategate.

Cal2 - Interesting mention of Charest and Quebec's new emission laws. They were proudly trumpeting their superiority a couple days ago. I wonder how they'll feel now, with France's failure before them?

Charest is always on the take away side of the equation.
A Quebec handshake is always with the palm up.

What I find the most humourous about this story is the voice of reason coming from FRANCE!

What I find the most humourous about this story is the voice of reason (sort of) coming from FRANCE!

They'll just have to rewrite the law to ensure that all emissions are taxed equally. Further, ensure that there are no exemptions, that the carbon tax is applied to all equally. Thumbs up to Quebec for adopting stringent emission standards, following in the footsteps of California, Vermont, Maine, New Jersey and Connecticut. Other provinces need to follow.

Just as Ponzi-scheme is a common expression now, someday Gore-scheme (or Gorescam*) wil become a common expression.

This whole thing should not be called Climategate but Gorescam*

I repeat,

GORESCAM *

( * trademark/copyrights: Friend of USA November 20th -2009 )

PS: I'm half kidding about the trademark/copyright thing.
I really hate to see my ideas used on the net without my name mentioned/attached to them...

Take or hate it. ( trademark/copyright Friend of USA Dec 30th 2009 )

No I'm not a nut, just a bit grumpy this morning because of my damn insomnia.

Sorry for the rant....

Hey T, California, Vermont, Maine, New Jersey and Connecticut. Every one of those states is so close to BANKRUPT its turned into a sick joke.

Quebec is not bankrupt ONLY because the rest of us pay their way.

Go back to your mommy's garden. FOOL.

To FREE:

Carbon taxes and stricter emission standards ARE going to happen whether or not you like it. Your comments show the attitude and lack of intelligence of you and your ilk. There is an ever increasing number of countries, states and provinces adopting such measures and it is about time.

Wonderful, wonderful! More taxes, more government intervention, pretty soon we'll be like Detroit, that model city of Socialism....er..well, you know what I mean.

T: There has not been a credible case presented for a tax on carbon. Yes, T, even you are a carbon based life(?) form. The only reason that the commie/nazi/socialists like the idea of a carbon tax is that the wet-dream of taxing air will be realized and the sky is the limit.

Lorne Gunter has written a good article in the National Post that relates to this subject: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/12/30/lorne-gunter-environmentalism-is-just-the-latest-way-to-tell-other-people-what-to-do.aspx

The willingness of the populace to embrace new taxes in the name of "doing good" is a trait that can easily be exploited. However, those taxes seldom go to the stated purpose. France is now facing a huge "hole" in their revenues as a result of this reversal. If the taxes were supposed to assist in weaning folks away from emitting, why were they being devoted to "revenue". Shouldn't they have been going toward developing green technology to make the transition possible? And if those taxes are not being collected, should it not simply affect those sectors of revenue-gulping agencies? Instead, France has a big hole in its budget. And carbon taxes are supposed to be about the environment?

I will grant that there are many well-meaning folks who sincerely believe that this will preserve the planet but I wish they would stop dreaming and look at the issue with a bit of a skeptic's eye. It wouldn't hurt to re-examine it with some questions in mind. Follow the money, for one thing. Who is getting rich? It isn't just Gore. Many "dirty" industries are checking this out very closely--any gravy train attracts flies. Another major question should be: What real environmental and social problems are not being addressed while we pursue the will-o-wisp of CO2?

I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any politician when, after such a tax has been imposed and already caused hardship across a nation, later awareness of Climategate spread across said population.

It's amazing the time unemployed people have to learn new things and the truth is out there, it's only a matter of time and circumstance.

Just like campbell here in bc soon to be GONE.

But of course we need an alternative to the commie scum that call themselves the ndp.

I strongly advocate the creation of a provincial conservative party, you know someone to vote FOR.

rita:

T's a utopian redistributor? Say it aint' so.

FREE, we do have a conservative party in BC and I voted for them in the last provincial election. The BC provincial conservatives seemed to get the most votes in the southern BC interior.

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anything on the horizon that is the equivalent of the Wild Rose party in Alberta. Campbell is uniformly detested around where I live but unfortunately in BC people tend to vote for the party that is most likely to beat the commies and in this case it is the lieberal party (with strong links to the federal lieberals).

Maybe we should just start up the dogwood alliance and see if it goes.

Wow. Just wow.

Jimby Prentice has had his bureaucrats working out a full scale carbon tax for the past 18 months, and you dingdongs don't even seem to know it's coming. Cap and trade integrated with sector specific levies and transfers.

A pure Green Shift.

The Cons have sold you down the river on this one. Because, any government that can actually move tax to life itself - will.

God, how many of you are this ignorant and naive? Looks like alot, sadly.

Sheesh. No wonder this country is a backward banana republic. If it wasn't the thieving Libranos, it's the Lying Cons.

Set you free--I really don't know what T is. I just find that when someone attacks people's intelligence rather than the issues, it's probably because that person doesn't have much else to say. One can continue to insist that carbon taxes will come, but I'd really like know why that would be considered a good thing. We know what we're being TOLD by governments, climate-ists, and Suzuki, but have we seen any evidence that it works? Carbon trading has become the new playground of criminal elements. It's another trick--selling nothing for huge dollars. Perhaps the notion is to punish people enough so they won't consume fuel and hydrocarbons, but some consumption is a necessity. It's not like we have any alternatives at the moment. For all the promise of electric cars and hybrids, they come at a price of their own. Nothing gets manufactured without some cost to resources and the environment. But by making it all about CO2, one can conveniently ignore all the other nasties. Rather than punishing folks, scamming folks, and extorting more taxes under dubious pretexts, why not identify some real problems we could actually correct? For example, Ontario has been promising to shut the Nanticoke coal fired power plant for over a decade but they haven't anything to replace it except a few windmills. I guess windmills don't quite do the trick. They should have been developing some nuclear plants and cleaning up some of the old ones. Rather than volunteering to send money to the likes of Mugabe, why not invest the cash either into putting more effective scrubbers at Nanticoke or starting a nuclear plant? Autos are definitely a source of smog and other pollutants, but a great deal of the drift comes from the States--reaching all the way to the Maritimes. Let Obama address some of the industrial pollution in his own country rather than galloping to the "rescue" of Copenhagen. If he's going to tax the stuffing out of his citizens, let that revenue at least be of benefit to them.

Perhaps it will finally be possible to hear from the scientists who have been manoeuvered into the sidelines by the tactics of the IPCC and the UN. However, there will still be a battle against all the vested interests. Gore is a stunningly bloated example but there are many others. However it goes, we will be paying more--and none of that will benefit the environment one iota. As far as sending billions to all those countries with their hands out, whining every time there is a drought that it's because of climate change, why not at least cut the crap and admit that it's just foreign aid under a different name. The only difference is that when it's called "foreigh aid" it's a gift and semi-voluntary, but when it's under the umbrella of "climate change" it's an entitlement.

Governments always try to get money out of their populations. Carbon taxes are no exception.

hardboiled:

In his year end interview with CTV, Harper said there will be NO Carbon Tax!!

Posted by: rita at December 30, 2009 4:24 PM

A carbon tax is a 'good thing' for governments for several reasons.

1. It shifts tax incidence to a fundamental neccesity (carbon). We use fossil fuel to keep people warm in winter, and run ventilators in
hospitals. It powers life itself, especially in a northern climate. And it's measurement is easy (the utilities/gas stations) with meters at houses and virtually every other point of use.
As such, it is visible, measurable, and for the most part, unavoidable. People can alter consumption patterns of food and consumer durables because they dislike the tax. With carbon, government has a far better grasp on your wallet.

2. Foreign aid - you touched on this, but it's really the driving force behind the wealth distribution scheme. Your UN Overlords have decided - along with the bureaucrats and unelected policy advisors - that Africa is.....a shithole. As is half of Asia, along with the terminal basketcases in South America, and assorted lawless areas of corruption and squalor. Now, after several billion dollars pumped into these states over the past couple of decades, only the ruling junta got richer. So, bold strokes are in order. You know the 25,000 bureaucrats in the department of foriegn affairs/environment/law/industry need something to do, so for the last decade, they've been working in concert with the UN and NGO's, enabled by various Treaties and Declarations, to point the apparatus at shooting alot of cash to these countries, and leapfrog them into a newer standard of living. Junior blowboy politician gets in, sees the inertia of the system, and pretty much goes with it. These systems & constructs have been under development for many years.
You see, the thinking goes like this: the gap in quality of life is accelerating between the haves, and have nots. This process, if not altered, will lead to structural conflicts, and permanent impairment of the 'developing' nations. Thus, to prevent war and spread world peace, we need to cut some cheques.

As you've clearly asked why don't leaders be honest with their populations, the answer is extremely simple.

No population would agree to the depth of transfers that are going to occur under a carbon tax scheme.

And what politician has given up their job for principle?

Cretin was a thug & Harper's a liar. All done. And both willingly agreeing to taxing their populations based upon weak & unsettled science.

Because, after all, they have mouths to feed. And as leaders of political parties and private interests - they have alot of mouths to tend to.

Posted by: Al W at December 30, 2009 5:02 PM

I missed that Al W, but will look it up. Jimby Prentice has been working on cap and trade for too long to let it go - and Copenhagen/post Kyoto is all about 'pricing' emissions.

If what you say is true, I hope that Harper isn't simply using weasel words to parse between carbon tax and cap and trade - because the two are the same.

Al W - I can't find anything on what you've mentioned. Can you please provide a link or reference?

Harper hopes carbon tax not in Canada's future, but won't rule it out

22/12/2009 6:37:00 PM
Jennifer Ditchburn, THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper has refused to rule out a carbon tax for some time in the country's future, sending Conservative spin doctors scrambling to reframe his comments.

Harper was asked point blank in a year-end interview with CTV News whether Canadians will ever see a carbon tax applied to their consumption of greenhouse-emitting fossil fuels.

"I hope not," he replied. "We're going to have to see what the regime in the United States looks like. We're going to have to harmonize a lot of our efforts with their efforts to be truly effective on a continental basis.

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/Canada/ContentPosting?newsitemid=222908723&feedname=CP-NATIONAL&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=True

THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper has refused to rule out a carbon tax for some time in the country's future, sending Conservative spin doctors scrambling to reframe(sic no such word) his comments.
~hardboiled

The Canadian Press is all communist all the time.
They are to the left of the CBC and Toronto Star.
They are framing PMSH's comments in a bad light.
The Canadian Press are the spinners here.

"Refused to rule out" means he hasn't changed the status quo, which is to do nothing.
If conservative spin doctors are trying to spin this non-statement on the part of Prime Minister Harper I would like to see proof of that other than you, hardboiled, spinning it as proof of perfidity on the part of the CPC as the Canadian Press is doing.

Calling the Prime Minister a liar at this point is uncalled for and unreasonable.
He hasn't done wrong here, hardboiled, and there isn't an election on the horizon.

We may laugh at the 'bumps' France is going through, but remember France is doing the right thing and advancing toward great profits while we foolish Canuks let opportunity slip away.

Israel, France, Belgium and Denmark are working magic and it seems Australia is joining the trend next.

You will not be laughing after seeing this...

http://fora.tv/2009/07/22/The_Electric_Horizon_Shai_Agassi

Try not to choke on the fist seven minutes of professorial pomp. The real meat starts at the seven minute mark.. TG

TG, you do realize that Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change based on CO2 has been falsified already and proven to be a hoax, yes?

Designing a future based on this HOAX/LIE as fact will be a disaster for any nation or individual.

I'm pretty certain, that no matter what name is given to future tax increases, there will be a large jump in what each of us will have to pay. For a while, it seemed that folks might tend towards compliance, having been convinced that such increases would benefit "the planet". But now that excuse has been debunked. However, after a year of massive bailouts--and this on a global scale--every government is desperate for more revenue. How is Obama to pay off the debt, and introduce health care without gouging his citizens? If it could have been disguised as a "carbon tax" there might have been some resignation or a sense of inevitability on the part of the citizenry. (It's for the polar bears after all.) But as the example in France reveals, the tax has nothing to do with emissions and everything to do with extorting more revenue. So, while I expect we will be slammed with new taxes in the future (doesn't matter who's in power) perhaps we can at least not bare our throats willingly, believing that it has anything to do with saving the planet.

That's the sad part. Some things really need doing, but we'll be putting more into social programs and bailouts and sending more dollars to failed states and there won't be any improvement in environmental problems. In the meantime, we will continue to be subject to barrages of climate guilt every time we drive somewhere for simple pleasure or grow a square foot of lawn or live in any dwelling nicer than a hovel.

Sorry. I've taken up more than my share of space. Will leave the field to other comments.

Yes OZ. I do realize GW is a hoax.

Why do you allow it to divert your attention from the real issue. Earth planet poisoning?

The common term for it is pollution. That over used term seems to mean nothing to us any longer. TG

Well, the canny SCots of Aberdeen have snookered themselves; they've got a plan for global warming but are not prepared for snow and ice.

http://news.scotsman.com/news/Rivers-freeze-over-the-mercury.5941983.jp

I like the org chart in the document - a bureaucrat's wet dream. I also like the fact that they have so precisely detemined that they will reduce their CO2 emissions by 23% and 42%. Unbelievable.

France like open air nuclear tests . Talk a good game, but in reality play by their own rules. Usually contrary to reason or human dignity.Disregarding all mankind, including the nut eating rulers of Africa.
With the big schnozes comes a large attitude.
They are after all our cultural superiors. French, their better & no one tells them not to tweak the rest of humanity's noses when having an itch do do so. In this case its working for Europe's sovereignty as Nation States.
In the end it will be the Germans giving the orders.

( This is supposed to satirical, so don't get your shorts stuck up your behind! for the humor challenged.)

JMO

TG, pollution really isn't a problem where I live.
I know there are a lot of reality challenged drama queens around claiming the earth needs saving, but the earth has never asked me to save it and from where I stand it isn't even in danger.

Pollution may be a problem in some parts of the world, but in those places the governments have zero interest in dealing with their local pollution problems.
That being the case, the only pollution issue I have is commies trying to destroy my way of life by pretending to saving a world that doesn't need saving.

As soon as anyone starts to scaremonger about saving the world or the environment I know that I'm dealing with a moral imbecile or a reality challenged liar.

Posted by: rita at December 30, 2009 6:23 PM

spot on.

Posted by: oz at December 30, 2009 5:47 PM

Hey oz: it ain't the messenger - Harper is gonna screw the base on this one. It's too important for his party, and the lawyers:

PM: Dion's carbon tax would 'screw everybody'
Last Updated: Friday, June 20, 2008 | 5:29 PM ET
CBC News

Prime Minister Stephen Harper pulled no punches on Friday in describing a carbon tax proposal by Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, saying it would "screw everybody" across Canada.

Government says no to carbon tax
By CanWest News ServiceJanuary 7, 2008

OTTAWA — The Harper government rejected an advisory panel’s recommendation to implement a carbon tax on Monday while its rivals opened the door to the idea in response to advice that the levy could lead the way to deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions from Canada.

Carbon tax threatens country, Harper says
Bruce Campion-Smith Ottawa Bureau Chief
Published On Thu Sep 11 2008

MONTREAL — The Liberals' carbon tax plan will plunge Canada into recession, sparking economic unrest that will revive Quebec's separatist movement, Prime Minister Stephen Harper says.

Partisanship is for morons. Free your mind. Think for yourself.

I'll tell you what, hardboiled: You set a reasonable date following the sitting of the new parliament after the Christmas break, I suggest after the new budget is delivered, and if the CPC hasn't legislated this national carbon tax that you keep going on about you drop your adamant position that they are going to legislate it unilaterally.

If they do legislate it, and I know they won't unless the U.S.A. does first, it'll be in the budget and I'll apologize to you for being a "partisan moron" and affirm that you are a free thinking man of vision.

It is a matter of money. This is from where the conflect arises. Who will pay and who will receive. If it was a matter of imminent peril people would do what was necessary because the facts and models would have been provided for everyone to analyze. Instead it was hidden and treated as divine fact. No one will put up with that except those that chose not to think for themselves.

Posted by: Oz at December 31, 2009 2:14 AM

You're on Oz. I like your thinking.

The apparatus of the state though moves slow, so I'd give the carbon tax a start date of 2012.

That's where our structural deficits will need to be addressed.

Thus, I predict enabling legislation will occur either in the fall economic update of 2010, or the spring 2011 budget. I wish I could make it sooner, but politicians will not want to crap on the glow of the Orympics.

Of course, if I am wrong, I will of course admit the errors of my ways, and salute you as smart and far more insightful than I could ever hope to be.