Carbon prices plunged yesterday in the aftermath of the Copenhagen conference on climate change, dealing a blow to the credibility of the European Union's carbon-trading scheme.
[...]
Carbon traders blamed the price fall on the Copenhagen conference, which produced an accord among the world's biggest developed and developing countries to limit their greenhouse gas emissions, but omitted details on what those limits would be. Governments now have a month to submit formal pledges on how far they will reduce their carbon output.
"This [accord] is a very disappointing outcome," said Trevor Sikorski, director at Barclays Capital. "I see nothing here that should drive investment in low-carbon technology." He said that it was "bearish for the market and bearish for the world".
SDA gets results!
Carbon trading is an artificial market that relies on regulation to create the tradeable commodity. When those regulations fail to materialize, there is no commodity, therefore nothing to be traded. Even so, I doubt anyone will be holding tag days for Fat Albert, our first carbon billionaire. He got his while the getting was good.
Maybe, but their still an oxymoron.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the Interpol (or whatever they're called now) investigation into 7/9ths of the EU carbon market being fraudulent.
I want to know when fat al is going to pay back all the money he defrauded from the people.
Interesting !
How will this whole fraud play out for Al Gore.
* Big bath
* Pump and dump succeeds
* The Ponzi scheme works for first in/out
* Collapses because of excessive leveraging
* Wins big but looses all in fraud suit
* Tipper tips off police on tipping point
* Freezes to death in snowstorm
I am still waiting for Gore to say hello to the RICO ACT. I guess the part I do like is all the stupid bastards that participated and got stung deserve what they got, nothing.
Read the IN BOLD part,
In light of what we now know about Gore’s history of exaggerating and concocting scientific claims, it’s rather ironic that the citation for his 2007 Nobel Peace Prize notes Gore’s effort to “disseminate greater knowledge.” Perhaps it should read “disinformation.”
One gaffe means nothing. But a consistent pattern of stretching/creating “truth” suggests there is a deliberate agenda at work. In November, it was noted that Gore is on course to become the first to make a billion dollars from the climate change industry. Gee, what could that agenda possibly be?
From Susan Martinuk, a Vancouver-based columnist
read the rest at,
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/index/writergroup/why_arent_al_gores_pants_on_fire/
Carbon trading is just Enron on steroids...
Smoke meet mirror...
Now instead of trading gas, the fraudsters are passing gas realizing the worthlessness of the cap n trade.
But we knew they were windbags all along!
Christmas Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
So the "green bubble" I prognosticated about might pop sooner than I thought.
why dont we encourage famous climate warmists like david suzuki to debate on public forum like cbc television with top deniers like christopher moncton bob carter and others who rely on emperical data to form their opinions
"I see nothing here that should drive investment in low-carbon technology."
Trevor Sikorski, director at Barclays Capital, doesn't believe that the profit motive alone would drive private investment in low carbon technology.
That doesn't bode well for people who claim that electric cars and bikes or hybrids would exist based on a natural market for them does it?
Trevor Sikorski, director at Barclays Capital, is saying that government coercion through punitive carbon taxes, justified by the hoax of the Climate Crisis, is the prime, nay, only driver behind the whole thing.
David Suzuki wouldn't go anywhere near a formal debate with Bob Carter or Lord Moncton.
Tim Ball apparently challenged Suzuki to a debate on climate change a number of years ago, at any venue and time Suzuki chose. He has yet to accept the offer.
"Carbon trading is just Enron on steroids." - Hans Rupprecht
That'll be in Bartlett's in ten years.
A bursting "green" bubble may very well be a huge financial hit.
On the other hand, perhaps it will lift all other activity as people breath (feed the plants) a huge sigh of relief. After all, the guilt the climate-alarmists imposed on consumers and business has been a huge uncertainty-factor.
Markets hate uncertainty. And people hated the thought of going back to 'cave dave days'.
The European Union’s flagship cap-and-trade carbon credit trading system is plagued by massive fraud and is effectively under the control of organized crime, according to a December 9 statement issued by European police. Europol, an EU-wide criminal intelligence agency similar to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, says bogus trading at the EU’s Emission Trading Scheme (ETS) has exceeded €5 billion (U.S.$7 billion) over the past 18 months alone. Europol says that in some EU countries, up to 90 percent of the entire market volume is fraudulent.
What a surprise! Fraud ! ! !
What do you mean 7/9ths is fraudulent. How about 100%!
Speculators that were stupid enought to invest in these worthless pieces of paper are the ones that are getting burned. (No pun intended) The brokers and modern day Ponzis make money on each trade, just how Chairman Mo, Boss Soros and Saint Al have designed it.
Roy Green has an open invitation for anyone including DR.Fruitfly to argue the AGW position for two years now. On one occasion a representative from the Suzuki Foundation(i think) debated on Roy's show and admitted shortly after that he was thumped. If I recall, Suzuki's expert said that "melting icebergs causes the oceans level to rise". What a maroon!
As was pointed-out yesterday via Lizzy May, there is no benefit to arguing with a fool. It accomplishes nothing!
My favourite: "A Wiseman said don't argue with fools, cause people in the distance can't tell who is who."-Jay-Z
Like Obama I don't speak Austrian, but shouldn't that read, "manbearpigish for the market and manbearpigish for the world"?
Obama is turning into a one term blunder of a POTUS. He has used so much political capital bribing his "healthcare" bills that he is effectively broke.
All his life he has been groomed and protected, told he is "The One", that he can make a speech and things happen. That will work in the greasy confines of the US Democratic Party, but in the real world, he's just another ignorant narcissist who has a pretense of self inflicted imperial power wafting around his head, or maybe its his arse, can't really tell.
Immediately following the release of the leaked emails, I read that, on certain carbon markets, sales had been some 20 times the usual volume in the day or 2 preceeding the release. This to me would indicate insider trading. Does anyone with more skills on this topic have the ability to check. If it's good enough to send Martha Stewart to prison, it's good enough for them.
Ah ha!! SDA and it's "Team To Be Feared" has, by investigation, shown what Interpol is currently investigating, that Cap & Trade is a criminal enterprise, complete with insider trading. I just wonder whether Gore will go down on this one?
"Carbon pricing plunged yesterday" much to the relief of carbon based life forms everywhere.
Another business gone GW wacky..from a headline at Drudge: Build-a-bear warns kids Santa may cancel Christmas due to 'Global Warming.
Way to go guys..scare the bee-jeebers out of the wee ones for your own agenda.Now I know why I refused to pay the ridiculous costs of building a bear for the grandkids!
Kate: "Carbon Trade" and "Credibility"....no problem, all you have to do is legislate it. Here in BC, Gordon Campbell knows there is more than one way to get into your wallet. We are FORCED to buy his "Carbon Offsets" for $25.00 per tonne! His friends will help "Offset" our money after he takes his cut! (We are not allowed to buy them from CCX Chicago @ .10 c per tonne)
This has really helped as it was just announced that our co2 (fertilizer) omissions have INCREASED over the past year!
However, it is still ok for the City of Victoria to dump millions of litres of raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean every day! Go figure!
You know years ago when I was a Millwright, I used to send students who worked with me for Chain Holes and left handed Screwdrivers.
Kinda reminds me of the Carbon Credits, and about as much value.
I just heard on radio that the PM said he would not rule out a carbon tax if the USA does. His biggest mistake was Canada following whatever the USA decides to do. I guess I was right about the Cons giving us a carbon tax and will now try to sell it to Canadian voters. I wish him luck ... he used it to defeat DeYawn in the last election ... any independants running?
Has anyone correlated carbon market index history with dates of the leaked emails to see whether any information has been specially manufactured to assist certain speculators?
It would be an interesting timeline to see.
I would imagine the data 'doctors' could have had vested interest in carbon trading.
robins111@2:43
Don't forget about the "skyhooks"!
Obama has ZERO % chance of passing any carbon tax or Cap & Trade.
It is too late. There are elections coming in 2010 and he is already behind and his numbers are tanking. Americans are waking p to his truly massive deficit $numbers and the jobs market is still very bad.
Barry is toast. America might yet have a chance to be saved.
I guess I was right about the Cons giving us a carbon tax...
~Clown Party of Canada
You guess wrong.
You don't get to claim you- was right -until it happens.
It hasn't happened in the U.S., yet, and PMSH said he wouldn't rule it out IF the USA did it(first), which they haven't yet.
That is an IF (USA first) leading to THEN MAYBE.
Not the same as, has already come to pass, is it?
Do you really want a national carbon tax just so you can say you were right, Clown?
Are you trying to drum up support for the Libertarian Party or are you just trying to shave the conservative vote so that the Liberal/NDP/Bloc can get elected and give Canada a national carbon tax whether the USA gets one or not.
If you're trying to drum up support for the Libertarians then you are harming their cause.
Please try a modicum of honesty, it might be better for your soul than just imagining you were right once.
Oz, Harper could just as easily have said that he will not give struggling Canadian economy a kick in the gonads in the form of carbon tax. No one was pushing him to say what he said. Seeing him posturing with red tie I believe that we'll see carbon tax from his government sooner or later.
"Oz, Harper could just as easily have said that he will not give struggling Canadian economy a kick in the gonads in the form of carbon tax."
To what end? By paying lip service to AGW PMSH has taken the only issue the opposition has off the table. The “Left” love BO and PMSH is following his lead. That’s compromise isn’t it? What you suggest has no tangible political or real world benefit except to pacify some short sighted Conservatives that like to rant.
Aaron, apart from the fact that their is a lot of red in the Canadian flag and that the color red has been associated with Canada for longer than it has with communism, could it be possible that wearing a red tie just might be a soothing message to Liberal voters without being a threat to conservatives?
Does that fact that Harper has even made the vaguely possible decision of a carbon tax dependent on the USA doing it first even lower your fear level just a little bit?
If we were going to see a national carbon tax, sooner or later, why is Harper depending on the USA to do it first before seriously considering it?
What, Aaron, do you imagine would happen to the CPC's base support in Alberta and Saskatchewan if he did bring in a national carbon tax, given that Stephen Harper has had the direct experience of having been a founding member of the Reform Party of Canada?
One more thing about Stephen Harper's red tie.
Is it just possible that Stephen Harper's tie has no political significance at all except that he wanted to wear a tie that went with the traditional seasonal colors of Christmas, which are red and green, and he chose red because it would strike less terror into the hearts of certain people with overactive imaginations than a green tie would?
Maybe Stephen's wife gave him the red tie last Christmas.
Christmas Cheer to All!
I'm so glad that Copenhagen did not result in a draconian economy-crippling deal. All the Climategate liars can lose their shirts in a crashing carbon market.
The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is running a petition against federal cap-and-trade schemes and carbon taxes. Although some of the short-term threat is over, this issue isn't going away soon. So, please sign the petition here! http://www.taxpayer.com/federal/fed-no-carbon-taxes-or-cap-and-trade.
Aaron 2:45 good point, as an old commodities trader I was wondering the same thing when this first broke. My second thought was lets have a look at Mr. Al Gore's carbon trading portfolio about the same time, Rico waiting?
Oz,
"Do you really want a national carbon tax just so you can say you were right, Clown?"
I do not want a Carbon tax for it will destroy this country faster than a LIeberal tells lies. That was a dumb remark, I said it out of concern that the Cons can't have a made-in-Canada deal and no courage to deny Global Warming.
Besides I consider it an insult to even think that I want a carbon tax and more of an insult by calling me a LIEberal. It would be on par as calling you a DeYawn, Iffy, LIEberal suppoerter, and you hate them as much as I do.
The Cons are afraid of the enviromentalists and will rather send Canada into debt than tell the truth. All along the Cons have used the enviromentalists `language` and do not have the courage, like Australia, to tell the voters there is no Global Warming ar Climate Change and need to bring in a tax.
Since he already signed Canada to pay a portion of carbon tax to the Commonwealth - part of $10 Billion, (so those drowning islands can move to other places and if you believe that the oceans will rise 5 inches in the next hundred years I will sell you a bridge)
The Cons should do as Gabby suggested below. and let the world know Canada`s terms:
Gabby in QC says: 1. December 17, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I know some who visit here will probably not like what I’m about to suggest, but IF there is an agreement in Copenhagen to set up some kind of a fund to help developing countries cope with their hagens … I mean with the effects of climate change … then each country’s contribution should be commensurate with the total GHGs they emit:
• China would have to contribute $21.5 Billion for producing 21.5% of total GHG emissions (2006 data)
• US $20.2 Billion for its 20.2% of GHG emissions
• EU $13.8 Billion, but I would increase it to $15 Billion or more as a penalty for the overwrought rhetoric of two European leaders, Nicolas Sarkozy and Gordon Brown, whose speeches – even though I heard only snippets – were waaay over the top. Emitting that much hot air has to have some kind of consequence.
• Russia $5.5 Billion
• India $5.3 Billion
• Japan $4.6 Billion
• Canada? Well, we emit only 1.9% of GHGs (2006 data) so we’ll have to contribute $1.9 Billion.
Since that money will have to come from somewhere, I propose that all government employees, including MPs and the judiciary, take a pay cut of 1.9%.
In addition, each province that receives equalization payments and transfers will also be cut by 1.9%. Actually, as some westerners have already suggested, maybe equalization payments should be stopped altogether to those provinces which find the oilsands a blight on Canada’s reputation.
I’m sure there are plenty of other programs where a 1.9% cut could easily take place.
http://www.bluelikeyou.com/2009/12/17/will-you-continue-to-be-a-global-warming-patsy/#comments
People who don't realize that politics is a game of poker,
not a game of chess, will never understand how it works.
A German associate illustrated just how ridiculous things have got.
First you buy Natural Gas/Oil from Russia and then purchase permission from Russia to use them.
I wondered when this would start.
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/12/leftist-organiz.html
Two prominent leftist organizations will have a lot less in their vegetable-died hemp sacks for the Secular Winter Solstice Festival this year -- a whole lot less, to be exact:
"The ACLU was recently notified that our largest individual donor, David Gelbaum, who contributed over $20 million to the organization in 2009, will not be able to continue his support due to a change in his financial circumstances."
Does that mean poor Trevor won't be getting a bonus this year?
But seriously, this is a more artificial market than the mortgages that were made into collective debt instruments and ultimately became some sort of derivatives of those mortgages that were traded and traded and traded until some of the original floaters of the derivatives became concerned about the ability of the holders to repay the amount secured by the derivative because of the underlying weakness of the derivative. At least there were underlying debt instruments and mortgages. Don't see anything here other than someone being given a credit for not emitting and that credit being something someone wants just to stay in business.
Talk about opportunities for things to go wrong and bring the world economy to its knees. Thank goodness this did not come into being on an international scale.
Clown,
...I do not want a Carbon tax for it will destroy this country faster than a LIeberal tells lies
Gotta'give it to'ya, "faster than Lieberals can lie" is a good line!
Clown, I didn't call you a Liberal.
Read my post again.
Clown, you said, "I guess I was right about the Cons giving us a carbon tax"
Fact: We(Canadians) don't have a national carbon tax delivered to us by the Harper CPC and you, Clown, said now we do.
Fact: The John Howard led Liberal–National Coalition Australian government fell to Kevin Rudd's Australian Labour Party with Climate Change, which Howard said was a hoax, as the single most important issue that overthrew Howard's government.
Fact: We SDA bloggers know that the Climate Crisis is a hoax but the majority of Canadians don't, yet.
Fact: The reason why the majority of Canadians don't know that the Climate Crisis is a hoax is that the MSM didn't cover the UEA Whistleblower Leak and to extent that they have mentioned it they have put a pro-AGW spin on it (with the exception of only a handful of opinion columnists)
Fact: During the last Federal election only a year ago, the Canadian MSM was totally in the tank for the Liberals or at least in ABC mode(Anyone But Conservative).
-it is therefore safe to assume that if the Harper government came out strongly against the Climate Crisis Hoax the CPC would be mauled by the Canadian MSM resulting in a change in government the like Australia-
If, as you imply, the Australian Rudd government has reversed themselves and is now trashing the Climate Crisis hoax, I haven't read about it.
(if true a link would be nice)
If this is the case, then good for Australia, it must be very liberating for Australia not to be sharing a border with the Obama led USA which is our major(80%) trading partner who has already shown a willingness to stop our exports at their border on the slightest pretext.
Correct and well argued, Oz.
Thank you, Vitruvius, agreement from you is high praise indeed.
Cheers & Merry Christmas
You're welcome, Oz, and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well, but I feel that I must note, for the record, that agreement from me is no more than agreement from me ~ "high praise" is, I think, too strong an accolade.
Vitruvius,
I thought it was "high praise", not because you agreed, but because you said it was well argued.
(editing errors notwithstanding)
I respect your powers of reasoning and though I naturally think well of my own reasoning abilities I do know I have a tendency to go off chasing rabbits and get a little flaky around the edges.
I guess this officially makes the World biggest Power, sex & the liars club orgy of this Century so far. Is this now pronounced a bust? Is the Carbon Tax headed to the tar pits of extinction?
Revnant Dream, I'd like to see those who promoted it and then profited from it busted for fraud.
I don't think the hoaxers are going to quit just yet.
I know one of the biggest goals the people behind this hoax have had is to censor the internet.
I think it is going to be a priority with them now while they still have the upper hand.
It isn't over.
What a shame. How sorry do I feel for those crooks who were rubbing their money grubbing hands with glee at the thought of having us taxpayers fill their pockets in a phoney baloney market with a multitude of schemes. Less than anyone could even imagine. In fact I hope lots of them sunk some of their own money into schemes anticipating big pay-offs. That would be sweet. They have too much of our money already.