Protests in Iran

Odds on the wonder child in the Oval Office ignoring this round as well?

If only something would come of it this time. I don't believe it, but I can hope.

Note the silence of Obama. Why?

Because the protesters are focused on Not-Obama and Obama has no interest in anything or anyone whom he cannot control, whom he cannot charm into a state of adulation. The Iranian people are focused on democracy, a state of existence foreign to Obama as a manipulative controller.

Eventually, all totalitarian regimes must crumble because of their internal contradictions. This contradiction exists because our species has an analytic mind that can question and analyze. An authoritarian regime requires passive subservience.

Such a state is possible only in very small populations who can be controlled by an authoritarian force expending a 'reasonable' amount of energy, such as a cult or family. It's impossible in large populations - and especially in our modern electronic age that enables the peripheral dissidents to access information outside of the authoritarian control.

But Obama could, and should, speak out in favour of democracy. He won't, because democracy empowers Others, and Obama is only interested in a passive population.

Iran's movement to democracy is a vital step, a domino act that began with Bush's enabling Iraq to move into that state of 'people power'. We ought to encourage the Iranian people - even if the POTUS chooses to reject them.

Can't have the Empty Suit doing something which might benefit the USA on a global scale, it's not his job. I really believe that he feels it's his job to destroy the USA and bring it back as some sort of socialist collective.

POTUS doesn't want to say anything, he is watching and making notes as he must walk the line in order to not have these images being posted all over the internet originating from the USofA. Wonder if the American people will be doing this to their financial high-priests at the Federal Reserve, Wall Street and in DC!

We live in interesting times!

Call me a pessimist but I wonder are the protesters just another brand of crazy? If they get control would things actually improve?

I get the feeling that they throw around the word "democracy" like the left here throws around the word "equality". It's not really what they want.

Afghanistan and Iraq are write-offs. democracy will never happen. it was a waste of time.

but if an invasion of a Middle Eastern country is justified "to establish democracy", Iran is it. i think its somewhat educated middle class wouldn't mind at least embracing an attempt to establish a Western-style liberal democracy.

...and, because Iran has ties to Hamas, Hizballah and the Taliban, and is tolerating and supporting al-Qaeda, a root of terrorism might be dug out.

should have done this in the first place. might have saved some money and not wasted lives in hopeless desert ghettos.

and, because Iran has ties to Hamas, Hizballah and the Taliban, and is tolerating and supporting al-Qaeda, a root of terrorism might be dug out.

Radical Islam is the root of the terrorism, it doesn't matter which country they are in, there are many wealthy Muslims who want the "West" to die and all too willing to finance our death.

Stay out of their countries and let them be, they will self destruct, they prove it every day, just watch them. We need to maintain our borders and not allow them to import their beliefs and hatred here. Good fences...great neighbours!!

and, because Iran has ties to Hamas, Hizballah and the Taliban, and is tolerating and supporting al-Qaeda, a root of terrorism might be dug out.

Radical Islam is the root of the terrorism, it doesn't matter which country they are in, there are many wealthy Muslims who want the "West" to die and all too willing to finance our death.

Stay out of their countries and let them be, they will self destruct, they prove it every day, just watch them. We need to maintain our borders and not allow them to import their beliefs and hatred here. Good fences...great neighbours!!

Sorry, fat fingers!

shel - I disagree that Iraqi democracy is a 'write-off'; I feel that it has a strong future. Changing a sociopolitical infrastructure can't be done with the snap of a finger; it takes many years. It took the West over 400 years; it will take modern era states a shorter time, but it will happen.

As for Afghanistan, this is far more difficult because of the proliferation of many tribal groups in that geographic area. One cannot call this area a nation or country for nothing unifies this multitude of ancient tribes, which have long collective antagonisms to collaboration with each other.
The key system that will enable change is the economy. Move into one that requires trade, interaction and collaboration rather than the isolation of small-scale self-sufficient small tribes - and democracy will gather strength.

Iran is a key area for a movement to democracy because the Iranian people are educated, are not involved in a tribal peasant economy and have strong ties with Iranian peoples now living in the West.

And then...we have Saudi Arabia - will it too start to crumble?

Somewhere today I saw a clip of what looked like a whole town rescuing three men, already dangling on the gallows. I thought to myself, for the first time: 'the mullahs are done'.

If memory serves the youth of Iran launched a very moving candlelight march on the evening of 9/11.

This is mere anecdotal reporting, but I've met a bunch of Iranians in Vancouver and have gotten nothing but good vibes from these encounters.

I'm optimistic because this revolution won't go away. It seems to be put down only to pop up again even more aggressively.

As a libertarian I'm wondering if Obama's inaction may have been an asset in this instance, given that seemingly all US interventions (like most government interventions) backfire.

OweBowLo is Hawaii practicing his foreign policy, bowing down picking up golf ballz

Obviously, ISNA, IRNA, and IRIB are wholly owned subsidiaries of the New York Times and Washington Post. I understand they trained the Irianian reporters at these subsidiaries in how to be good reporters./sarc off

Two teenaged girls, dressed in western clothing, no head gear, being interviewed on a street in Tehran several years ago when there was talk of a US invasion. I watched this on, believe or not, CBC, the girls had this to say when asked what they thought of the US invading their Country. Do you think they could just come and get rid of the Mullahs and then leave? I guess that just about says it all.

Israel has recalled all of its ambassadors to Jerusalem for meetings. "This is the first time a conference for all Israeli heads of missions has been called."

http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/israel-recalls-all-of-its-ambassadors-worldwide/

Is this an unusual move? Or is there something a foot?

Mullahs crack heads and I don't care
Mullahs crack heads and I don't care

Mullahs crack heads and I don't care
I'm in Hawaii now.

me no dhimmi - I disagree with your comment that US interventions backfire. This would suggest that all nations must refuse to comment on what goes on in any other nation because such comments, both by voice and action, would be deemed unacceptable interference.

The US strongly criticized the Soviet Union's repression of its people, giving hope to the dissidents in that nation to fight against their govt. The US also helped the Polish Solidarity movement, not with guns, but with advice, communication strategies, etc, enabling that group to fight against the Soviets.

Canada strongly criticizes China's human rights violations; shouldn't that continue? It gives hope to the people in China who fight for such rights.

I happen to think that the US Iraq War was a vital step in enabling the ME to move itself out of tribalism and to empower its peoples within their own democracy. And we are seeing the results, as Iraq strengthens its democracy, and the Iranian people fight, themselves, for their own.

Obama ought to be promoting the 'ideology' of democracy around the world. Instead, he's playing golf and is silent about the struggles of other people.

Jin Horne @ 6:45, if I were an Iranian and living in the vicinity of one of the nuclear facilities, I might consider a temporary relocation to my 4th cousin's place in the Zagros Mountains.

No doubt "The One" will tell them to cool it.

"Stay out of their countries and let them be, they will self destruct, they prove it every day, just watch them. We need to maintain our borders and not allow them to import their beliefs and hatred here. Good fences...great neighbours".

~glacierman

this is actually what i tend to think, hence my scare quotes and reticent approach to this. i should have made clear that "if" we were to go into the area to fight terrorism and establish democracy, places like Syria, Iran and Saud are the root of the problem (terrorist funding etc).

the only reason the ghettos were picked to "establish democracy" was because of lesser complications.

~ET

"shel - I disagree that Iraqi democracy is a 'write-off'".

we'll see. and yes, regarding Afghanistan, i think only trade and cooperation will do the trick. the question is, how can this be sparked with so much corruption and lack of comprehension of Western values? too many steps are needed, and we're falling down with the first.

http://shelshockcanada.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-have-to-laugh-at-our-pmsing.html

This is porno for Oblivia Chow-Chow.

I'll bet Jacko gets lucky tonight!

too many in here fail to realize that you build a house, one brick at a time

change, even in the west ain't instantaneous, it's slow process

Gym, the problemm is that Barry don't even know what mortar is, let alone a brick.

It can be argued that Christianity was pretty much just as barbaric as Islam before martin luther came along.

Reformation and modernization of Islam will take time. Those of us outside it can help the process along but ultimately it must be reformed from within. Perhaps the current events in iran one of the steps along the road.

The recall of israeli ambassadors is interesting especially if it is u precedented. A possible attack on Iran could be at the root but so too could be a threat against one or more embassies....

I feel both proud & sorry for the brave protesters in Iran. They simply want democracy & liberty. But without any weapons, they are doomed.

Question: Are there any organized protests in DC by Iranian ex-pats? Maybe if a million people showed up to DEMAND that Obama at least show some REAL support for liberty, then perhaps something might change.

Note the silence of Obama.

If he were smart, Obama could quietly encourage the revolution to take care of the messy business of a nuclear Iran without having to sully his precious Nobel Peace Prize.

Take down I'm-A-Nut-Job without sending a single soldier over there. Look brilliant afterward. preemptively end World War III.

Note I said if he were smart...

What worries me about this is we might get a "Wag The Dog" effect. If the mullahs worry that their positions in power are in danger, they might use those nuclear weapons to force a response from the US (I'm assuming Israel wouldn't exist any more), and that would give them a swell of nationalist popularity. And since most of these mullahs are old, religious nutbars, I can't have any confidence that cooler heads will prevail.

There are many people who think this is exactly what Clinton did when the Lewinsky affair was at its height. He bombed a suspected chemical weapons in Sudan, and a suspected terrorist camp in Afghanistan, on the same day as Lewinsky wrapped up her testimony on the scandal. Afterwards, Sudan insisted the chemical weapons plant was really a pharmaceutical plant.

Will history repeat itself?

Blaming the CIA in 3..2..1..

Obama will not like these events unfolding because it wrecks his plan to be glorified as the solution.

If the demonstrating rebels are seen to take control and cause a Berlin Wall repeat, then they will get the credit for it. Even worse, Bush will get the credit for having started the ball rolling in Iraq and getting the Iranians to thinking “gee why can’t we have democracy too? “

Pretty soon this will snowball to Saudi Arabia and before you know it, it will seem as if Bush has successfully pulled off a déjà vu of Reagan’s Evil Empire statement with his Evil Axis threats to these despotic scumbags in the region.

Meanwhile Obama is curled up in corner trying to figure out how he can project that it was all his bowing and appeasing that has helped bring a transformation of the ME. The last thing Obama wants is for people to say about this transformation is “it’s Bush’s fault”.

Iranians will be Iranians. These scenes are pretty well the same as in '79. Check back in 1000 years, maybe they'll have figured out what they really want. Isolation sounds like a plan, to me.

This is a blip. Israel is still going to have to do the heavy lifting on the Iran problem. I hope they tell Obama to go F* himself at the same time.

History repeats, this happened in Hungary,it happened during the Czech Spring, it happened in Rwanda/Burundi and it will happen many more times.
Gord Tulk; Martin Luther was an anti-Semite, Henry Tudor VIII killed more recusants than Torquemada (a Jew) killed non-Catholics.

KevinB at 8:20 PM

Isreal has 2 subs, 12 silos each, times possible 3 war heads per missile

if Tehran is that stupid, they will also be history

the Jews prepared for tuff times

Gord Tulk, I disagree - somehow you are forgetting the religious wars initiated by the religious reformers (Hussites, Lutherans and so on). The Hussite Wars in 15 century were very bloody and Thirty Years War was one of the most destructive conflict not only in 17 century but also in whole European history. Protestant religious reformers and their acolytes were much more bloody and barbaric than catholics simply because they were "true believers" - today we would call them fundamentalists.
***
Protesters in Iran want change of government and more democracy , but not all protesters are necessarily pro-western. Nevertheless, on the whole, they are much less anti-western than majority of the people in the Middle East and in the arab world. I also would not agree that Green Movement needs weapons to win; people in Polish Solidarnosc did not have weapons but they won.. I think that given time Green Movement will win, the problem is that they may not have the time. Ahmadinejad' government is getting close to producing nuclear weapons, and because it has weak hold on political power to regain this power it may use the nuclear weapons.

Green movement; unfortunate name for the times. Some, especially on the Left, may misunderstand it.

ET; thank you for your commenting. as usual it provides information and fewer opinions. cheers

Wait for a US crisis of some sort and I think Israel will strike, that or shortly before the 2010 elections.

The White House responds. Perhaps a little tepid, but it appears the normal diplomatic tone for this type of event.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hZz8_Lbjxi2Wwhn1d39nC3BpAtGQ

"We strongly condemn the violent and unjust suppression of civilians in Iran seeking to exercise their universal rights," National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer said in a statement.

"Hope and history are on the side of those who peacefully seek their universal rights, and so is the United States.

Me No Dhimmi, as of a year ago there were 40 thousand 'Iranians' in BC, including some who'd had close ties to the Shah. They've long been waiting for what's happening now.

Prior to luther the church was almost in the same state as it was in Christs time. The reformation was not without its violence but it began the process that created the modern church. A similar upheaval has yet to happen in Islam.

Canadian Gov't Condemns Iran's Crackdown

The Harper Government continues to impress with respect to human rights.

Now is a reeeeeaaaaally bad time to have such weak leadership in the WH. Maybe it is meant to be so that Israel can take the decisive steps it needs to ensure its own survival.

Me thinks the stinky soft stuff is about to hit the proverbial fan.

Gordtulk said "Prior to luther the church was almost in the same state as it was in Christs time"

I guess that depends on your definition of "almost".

Luther was protesting the corruption that had crept into church leadership of his time. He was trying to get the church back to what it was originally, not transform it into something new.
The essential teaching of the original Christian church is still something desirable today, and should be for all who call themselves Christian, in my opinion.

The biggest problem I see is the tendency of imperfect people always trying to remake Christianity into something that suits themselves.
It happened before Luther protested and it happened after, and it will most likely continue until Christ returns.

"Prior to luther the church was almost in the same state as it was in Christs time."
Gord Tulk

If it was in the same state as it was in Christ time then there would be no reformation. Reformation movement started because Church changed too much from Christ's time and not because it did not. The reformers claimed that it was the time to go to the beginnings of Christianity.

The Iranian mullahs should be made to realize that they could face a sudden demise a la Nicolae Ceausescu in Romania at any time. Perhaps they could be offered a graceful exit: cede power voluntarily and we won't put you up against the firing squad. A "truth and reconciliation commission" or the like might ensue, although the historical reputation of the mullahs as villains is pretty much written in stone by now.

the same state as Christ's time?

what 13 homeless folks walking around Galilee and Judea?

At the very start 13, but their numbers were in the thousands during Jesus' life. After his crucifixion, everyone including the 12 abandoned Christianity (briefly), until the resurrection, the event that fueled a rapid increase in followers. No big surprise, for those that had seen a risen Saviour.

Contrast that with beginnings of the mullah's religion. If they employ the same methods again, there's going to be some more broken heads in Iran before this is over.

can we agree one of the basic, root causes of this stuff in Iran is religion?

after the treatment I got from a so-called 'christian' I renounced my christianity.
had to do with that scripture passage about 'wait until you get invited to the head table or you may get *uninvited*'.

"can we agree one of the basic, root causes of this stuff in Iran is religion? "

Are the mullahs practicing their religion the way intended by it's founder?
How about the "so called" Christian you had an unpleasant experience with?
I would say the answer to those 2 questions are not the same. Not all religions are the same.

The Bush Doctrine has turned almost full circle now. GWB said that a free and democratic Iraq would rub off on the Iranian people just like this.

AS it turns ot, GWB is a foreign policy genius.