Mark Steyn on the transformative power of an all-organic diet:
At the risk of being holed up the next time I’m driving in Vermont for hate crimes for my Vermontophobia, I think the women in Vermont would benefit from eating less organic food. I was down in your part of the world last year, and I must say, the California women look great on it. But…I think if you eat organic in the winter climate, you start to actually take on the character of the organic vegetables…
OK she is from California, not Vermont, but she does know fruits and vegetables grow on trees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5oVzbwYWpg&eurl
I read the Hewitt transcipt of Steyn and some other right wing blogs. I am surprised at how some right wing bloggers have jumped at this article on organics. Normally, these sites are very sceptical of MSM (mis)information, but seemingly not this time.
Being in health care I am aware that most people do not buy organic for the nutritional value, but to avoid pesticides and other toxins. The study did not address this question, nevertheless the MSM article declares there is no health value in organics. This was a seriously flawed extrapolation.
Additionally, who stands to gain from these false conclusions. Of course agribusiness. They supply the pesticides and the patented seeds not used by organic farmers. Kate, being from Sask I would have thought you more sensitive to this fact, and at least be more wary.
In my experience, organics people are far from perfect and can’t be blindly trusted. However, corporate agribusiness and their studies, have their own agenda too.
the agenda of corporate agribusiness? you mean the agenda of making a profit by selling something? that people want?
not the dreaded pesticides and patented seeds. you mean like genetically modified frankenstein foods. oh noes…
how about we just start calling liberals Luddites, which is what they are
Steyn’s remark makes little sense. There’s no finer example of a bearded turnip in an onion dress than Californicatia’s Nancy Pelosi.
Wait. I forgot about Helen Thomas.
So help me, I cannot fathom what the hell “organic” food thing is. I understand it is the philosophy that: “ya shouldn’t use those darn ‘ole chemicals on yer crops”, even conventional bagged 10-10-10; nosir.”
Yer supposed to use composted organic or horse modified organics as fertilizer. This is more “natural” I guess. Although I question whether you are getting the needed light soluble nutrients avaliable in bagged “ferts”.
Then there is the matter of pesticides. A lot of pesticides are organic, for pete’s sake. Here the die-hard hippies are really in a frenzy and unwilling to educate themselves concerning the origins of various pesticides owing to an undying devotion to a philosophy.
Some pesticides like malathion are pretty harmless – you could drink it actually, whereas some need particular care. One needs just has to be aware, and that’s the catch. This is a situation where simple low-educated types (not that there is anything wrong with that) lack faith in the technology. It’s the same folks devoutly accepting in homeopathy, except of course, when they are seriously ill and taken to the hospital where they do not insist on ‘natural remedies’. The Chinese are fanatics like this.
As for me I have vetted a few pesticides, use chemical ferts without hesitation except for price considerations, and watch for potato bug (Colorado beetle), crushing them with glee. None of the off-the-shelf pesticides kill the little buggers. Incidentally, my technique for them is to go down the rows looking at the underside of the leaves with a mechanics mirror and upon spotting the orange egg masses, massacre them with a blow torch. Probably, from a distance, I look like some demonic prowler lurking in the yard weapons in hand. :>)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5oVzbwYWpg&eurl
Posted by: Fred at August 1, 2009 2:54 AM
Notice the expression of the guy behind her. He eventually falls asleep.
Mark needs to spend more time in Burlington, VT. The girls from the university do not in any way resemble onions or turnips.
Not once in my entire lifetime have I ever seen children of these organics and other foodphobics who weren’t spindly, frail, and a head shorter than other kids their age.
I saw one of these types. She was working at natures-fare handing out anti-conservative pamphlets… she looked sort of gray!
The use of pesticides is regulated. The withdrawl times ensure there is no pesticide residue unless extra label use is performed. At moderate expense to the taxpayer I participated in a blind experiment on organic beef. There was no difference in hormone and pesticide levels. That was performed due to the wish of the org movement to label organic beef and charge more for the product. That request was denied due to there being no difference. Damn science getting in the way of capitalist organic producers.
anonymous and melwide, my son’s good friend was a vegan and was always sick and looked as you described, spindly and so pale. Saw her last week at my son’s party and she looked great, skin was lovely and she had put on a few pounds and just seem to sparkle. We all mentioned it. Later in talking to her she has modified her diet and now eats chicken and fish.
Steyn is a true gem of wisdom and wit, but he will never receive a Presidential Medal of Freedom, less a Governor General Award, because he is “unconventional” wisdom and wit. Like ALL great minds he will not be completely appreciated until gone from this earth.
I am reminded of the practice of some Chinese hog farmers that pumped waste lagoon fluid into their hogs in order to maximize weight and therefore profits. Once could argue that the effluent so pumped was “organic”.
It is extreme to argue that all agrichem advances are to be rejected, as it is extreme to argue that food providers should supply product unfettered.
To be a wise consumer, one must be an informed consumer. To be informed, one needs information. I am in favor of organic information – information that is free of the taint of agenda.
This is why we need and should protect the blogosphere – so that when sources of “information” are agenda-driven, we have a better chance of exposing that agenda, and thus assessing the quality of the “information”.
This is why I am so thankful to the Libranos for pushing Waferquiddick out into the open. The more people that realize that their information is dangerously contaminated, the better.
With information contamination all around us, it seems, then what are we to make of ‘organic food’? Steyn is taking the mickey out of one end of the normal distribution curve.
The larger issue, in my view, is the contamination in our daily information, because it is that contamination that polarizes us, leads to strange rationalizations and theories, while not improving our state of being one iota.
“Organic” is a feel good scam aimed at folks who must prop up their self esteem by somehow “living a more holistic life” than the common herd. A thread that runs through many movements of a political or religious nature.
There is an irony involved in the fact that when Communism collapsed in eastern Europe and the rural poor flocked to the “cleaner” cities to work, previously rare problems like asthma started showing up in some of their city born and raised kids but not their older kids who spent their first years surrounded by animals and farm dirt. It would suggest that a healthy life for some infants with overactive autoimmune response may require exposure to farm type bacteria and viruses almost from day one. It would seem to be fairly simple for a drug company to concoct a suitable “dirt cocktail” to fight this problem but of course there would be nothing to patent and no worthwhile money in making it. It would seem that “real organic” involves not the removal of something “unnatural” from the diet but the ingestion or breathing in of something disgusting.
Texan, true,LOL. Some of the farmers in my neighbourhood farm using organic practises and their crops are generally filthy with weeds and they only produce about 2/3 of the crops that their neighbours using herbicides, pesticides and fertilizers get. However they do sell their crops for more money. If organic production was government mandated, the combination of lower yields at higher prices might just have some effect on the food supply.
Texan, true,LOL. Some of the farmers in my neighbourhood farm using organic practises and their crops are generally filthy with weeds and they only produce about 2/3 of the crops that their neighbours using herbicides, pesticides and fertilizers get. However they do sell their crops for more money. If organic production was government mandated, the combination of lower yields at higher prices might just have some effect on the food supply.
Penn And Teller’s series BS did organic farming this week as their hot topic to debunk. Turns out, all those claims that organic food tastes better, is healthier, and is better for the environment are all crap.
Oh — and if every farmer went organic, three billion people would die from starvation.
Randy, (second comment in this thread), I don’t think the recent study you refer to made an unequivocal declaration that there is no health value in organics, it just said that there’s no evidence that organic vegetables are more nutritious in terms of vitamins, minerals, fiber, protein (where applicable), etc.
I agree that “most people do not buy organic for the nutritional value, but to avoid pesticides and other toxins.” That being said, the longstanding tendency to conflate pesticide use with toxicity is of questionable merit, inasmuch as, since fruits and vegetables are an important part of healthy eating, if one ends up buying less produce because of a perceived need to buy the more expensive — often considerably more expensive — organic, one may be compromising one’s health — or one’s family’s health — as a result of an arguably questionable risk assessment.
Much like the CO2 AGW mess this nutrician/organic vs inorganic/GMO thingy is rampant with inconvenient truths.
I reviewed this study of organic vs inorganic and the only difference was conventional produce was higher in nitrogen….What this actually indicates is that the conventional produce is higher in protein….the test for protein is really a test for nitrogen………
A lifetime past I studied animal nutrician. Ruminants such as cows not only can digest cellulose but can synthicize protein (really just ingesting the ruminant bacteria which digested the cellulose. People cannot do this and like pigs must have a spectrum of different amino acids (components of protein). There are 3 amino acids which on a practical basis (unless eating 200 lb of barley/day is possible)can only be derived from animal sources.
Vegans in principle are impossible—-actually suicidal. Actually just 1 egg or a glass of milk/day will supply those missing amino acids.
This goes a long way to explain these zombie like vegans……they either die or smarten up….
Woody Allen made a powerful comment on this sort of thing in his movie “sleeper”….(“have a cigarette”)…….hee hee……
“Additionally, who stands to gain from these false conclusions. Of course agribusiness.”—Posted by: Randy at August 1, 2009 3:07 AM. Yeah sure,if you can’t blame it on Big Oil,you can blame it on Big Food,another tree-hugging hippie target. On a tastier note,someone should introduce Mr.Steyn to Big Rock,particularily their Traditional Ale,which in my professional opinion is one of the best brews on the planet.
It gets even better….
Japanese are noted for low incidence of heart disease because of their high fish diet…..however their life expectancy is no higher than western meateaters because they have a much higher incidence of stroke……..
Currently there is a lot of work underway examining the organic toxins in SOY….apparently asians in reality consume very little soy……
BTW—raw soybeans are very toxic……..
Beer, whiskey and cigarettes……….
I loved the Nancy Pelosi and Helen Thomas comments! What a hoot! The Burlington girls aren’t native Vermonters- they’re from out of state!
Good laugh this morning- keep it up!
I once asked a highly trained medical scientist friend of mine about the subject, asking her about the idea of toxins building up in the human body. To that she rolled her eyes and said, words to the effect, we ingest chemicals virtually from birth. If there was truth to the idea of a build up of toxins in us, then precious few of us would make it to puberty. Can someone explain to me why our life expectancy is about 80 years.
Yukon Gold: “Oh — and if every farmer went organic, three billion people would die from starvation.”
That’s not a bug, that’s a feature!
We have friends down the road, who are raising their boys as vegans. Don’t know how they stay (reasonably) healthy. But they talk to my son, and it’s amazing the halftruths they are being taught by their parents.
“organic food is more healthy and more nutritious”
Hogwash….that means it’s worth twice the price?
As stated previous, this is more about being “holier than thou” in their own eyes, rather than being practical
“Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed.” – Sir Francis Bacon
Just because the enviro-nazis have usurped the field of agriculture does’nt mean that they invented the concept of health or organically grown food.
Some might deny it, but it is a fact that your body requires certain nutrients to achieve and maintain health. Think “Limey” – Before the British Navy required a source of vitamin C on their ships, sailors on long voyages were dying of scurvy. The cure was to provide the missing nutrient.
The same principle applies to plants. Your food is only as healthy as the nutrients it can take up from the soil. Therefore, the soil has to contain certain trace minerals and nutrients so that we have access to them when we eat them.
The problem with chemical fertilizers is that they usually only contain a couple of these and crowd out the other nutrients that the plant needs. It all works synergistically.
Ever wonder why your supermarket potatoes turn black when they are cooked? Or why your celery stalks are hollow? Why is it that some fruit starts to rot from the inside before it is even ripe? Lack of certain minerals and too much of others.
As far a genetically modified food is concerned, there is lots of evidence that it doesn’t yeild more or better produce since whole crops have been destroyed and end up worthless – like cotton crops for instance – the cotton bolls fall off and the plant doesn’t mature. Monsanto was sued, and settled out of court.
Certain “experts” have stated that splicing fish and human genes into tomatoes doesn’t make any difference and they are equal to normal tomatoes.
“If it looks like a tomato – it’s a tomato!” I have some wax fruit I’de like to shove down his throat – just like they shove this misinformation down ours.
The fact is that the jury is still out on the effects of genetically modified food on human health. We are the guinea pigs – and there were no studies done before it showed up in the supermarkets. Also, there is no labeling allowed on genetically modified food – in deference to the agribusiness lobbyists.
There were lots of good books on the subject before PETA and Greenpeace and without the socialist/facist agenda.
By the way, it’s socialist/facist despotic governments that cause mass starvation – not organic growers.
Oh yeah – I’m a backyard gardener and the organic stuff is bigger, more flavorful, and disease and pest free.
Another misconception about compost. I only use vegetable matter i.e. leaves, grass clippings, vegetable parings etc. It is not a slimy mess and has the scent of earth. Animal and human waste is not – NOT – suitable for compost, it can cause disease. The exception is well-aged (2 or 3 years old) cow, sheep or horse manure from the manure pile. Never use manure from carnivores.
I am a right wing capitalist conservative – not a lefty – and I eat meat. Read something besides propaganda.
Doug:
You’re right about Steyn getting insufficient recognition. Here is an NYT review of a book that describes, evidently with foreboding, Islamic penetration of Europe. Relatively free of the usual PC quibbles, the review mentions others, such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Bruce Bawer and Bernard Lewis, who have viewed the phenomenon with similar concern. Yet nowhere does the reviewer mention Steyn, the most prominent of these. I guess, after years of dismissive sneering, humble pie is hard to ingest.
DonnaB said; Ever wonder why your supermarket potatoes turn black when they are cooked?
Actually, I have never had a potato turn black when I cooked it. Where are you doing your shopping. Mine go into the pot white and come out the same way. Try turning the heat down and not cooking them so long.
Organic food is a wonderful example marketing brilliance. It appeals to many different groups – greenies, the fitness conscious, worried mothers and upscale boomer women. It’s great for the last group. The boomer ladies can use their money to be fashionable, morally superior and claim physical fitness without the bother of any nasty, sweaty exercise or giving up haute cuisine.
I don’t buy organic, I buy based on price, but there’s no doubt that if properly certified, organic can provide you with a level of safety that is not guaranteed with other foods.
That’s because we predominant urbanites have no idea where a lot of our food comes from.
Food practises on non-organic farms in North American are probably in general OK, but we get food from China – who knows what goes in to producing it?
DonnaB;
A post script to my post above. Most if not all of the reason why what you grow in your back yard tastes better than what you buy in the store has nothing to do with being organic, but because you pick it when it is fully mature.
Most of what we get in stores, at least through large parts of the year, is picked before full maturity to compensate for shipping time to the market. The next time you are in California, buy any vegetable you grow in your own back yard and give it a try. It will taste every bit as good as what you grow at home because the local stuff is picked far closer to full maturity. If you do not believe that, stop at any of the road side stand down in Mennonite country near Kitchener. In season, the tomatoes are absolutely delicious. And yeah, Mennonites use pesticides like they are going out of style.
Exactly bob c. There is ZERO proof that organic is anything other than resource wasteful and more expensive.
Oh, Donna, what you consider organic is probably not, unless you’re dozens of miles from any pesticide/herbicide application and do not use any sort of municipal water source.
I think bob c has nailed it. I found much the same thing in eating citrus just off the tree in the tropics: sweet and amazing compared to the stuff picked upripe and shipped 2,000 miles. FWIW, we get most of our veggies from a local farm that home delivers. The stuff gets to our house a day or so after it’s been picked ripe and you can really tell the difference in taste. Whether it’s “organic” or not, I don’t really care. But there is a distinct taste difference between supermarket veggies (whether labelled organic or not) and farm-fresh (whether labeled organic or not), and since I’m a right-wing red meat eating food snob, farm-fresh wins all the time.
I agree that anything coming from your own garden is better tasting.BTW,my kids are smarter and better looking than any that I see at the supermarket too.
Couldn’t help but giggle when the comment about “them looking grey” came up. I went into a restaurant that was organic and the cooks all prayed over the food. Made me nervous as everyone in there with the exception of me (6’3″, 240 lbs.) appeared thin with poor skin colour, no shine to their hair and they all appeared sad. No laughter or energy happening there.
Naturally was happy to have a venison steak with fried potatoes that night just to get fed after that “lunch”.
Pat
The first claim of “organic” supporters is that organic produce contains more nutritional value, vitamins, etc., is precisely what was debunked by the recent major study.
The second claim, that non-organic foods pose a danger because thay are littered with man-made pesticide residues is also bogus. In fact, all produce, organic or not, contains THOUSANDS of times more natural pesticides and fungicides than man-made ones. Over half of these are proven carcinogens. (Of course, the concentrations of both are so low as not to be a concern.)
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/synthetic-v-natural-pesticides/
The third claim, that organic farming may be better for the farmers concerned may well be valid. The inconvenient truth is that organic methods, unless accompanied by tremendous amounts of labour that drives up costs, are significantly less efficient than conventional methods. At minimum, poor people couldn’t afford nutritious foods. At maximum, millions would starve if we all went “organic.”
Ooops, forgot another “organic” claim.
Supporters claim that the food tastes better. Not so! Blind taste tests show that organic foods of identical varieties, grown under same climatic conditions don’t taste any differently from conventional products.
Of course a just plucked, fresh, vine ripened, sun-grown heritage tomato from a local garden is going to taste better than a tomato bred to tolerate a truck ride from California. This has nothing to do with whether it was grown “organically” or not. Just don’t expect any of these at a low cost or in February.
I liked your description of the restaurant, Pat. It reminded me of my wife’s friend who, in urban New Jersey, tries mightily to support “local” farmers. She has a lot of health problems involving osteoporosis and thyroid irregularities. Though not a vegetarian anymore, she damn near killed herself a few years ago by following a macrobiotic diet. I think seaweed was a prominent ingredient. She experienced similar benefits from Pilates exercises and Yoga.
Cripes.Has everybody forgotten grade 5 biology? EVERY form of life on this rock is ORGANIC!!! The word “organic” has been hijacked by the eco-facists. True truth in advertising should state pesticide/herbicide free,and even that is stretching it.If it isn’t watered by a spring a 100 miles(58.9 kliks for the lefties)from ANY civilization,and doesn’t have bug bites/nibbles on it,it AIN’T pesticide/herbicide free!
i bet i got the best tomatoes anywhere. Last crop some were the size of bungalows/
Go Homegrown Organic!!!!
Justthinkin 5:40
It’s been my theory for some time that most “lefties” are innumerate. They have not passed a grade eight math or science exam.
O.k., Suzuki was once a geneticist but he’s been full time into showbiz for a number of decades. Gore has no scientific credentials at all.
So, while I’m not averse to assailing them on this topic, let’s make sure we have our facts right!
100 miles is 160.9 kilometers. Your conversion factor is reversed.
Most organic vegetables have natural alkaloids meant to ward off animal predation if not kill them. Most of this has been bred out of Domestic products except organic produce.
So if you suffer an allergen or even death from a wild vegetable. You had been warned.
Same goes for marriage with said granola crunchers.
They too suffer from the mustache with hairy legs.
Heard of ‘organic’ soybeans? How about ‘organic’ wheat?
The US is already fighting soy bean rust outbreak (see sbrusa.net, which tracks the progress of the soy bean rust, the spores of which blew in on hurricane Ivan. It’s only a matter of time before Ug99 arrives in North America.
The US does not produce enough fungicides to address both a soy bean rust and a wheat rust outbreak simultaneously.
Hope the ‘organic’ crowd has a solution up their sleeves…
Having been to California, and living in Vermont, I have to say that the women here are somewhat of an acquired taste in comparison. Some of the hippie chicks are downright fetching though, if you can look past the politics.
No way Wally- mine are smarter and better looking! But one eats organic and the other eats what he likes- these days that’s pretty much non-stop butter-chicken with basmati rice.
So glad I never wasted one cent or one second of my time in these ‘organic’ isles. What a farce, but at least someone made a profit from the foolish.
Our new (and substantially bigger than we’ve ever grown before) garden is being built or set up this year. Making the beds and laying down manure over winter is apparently the proper way to do this. Also have to put a very secure fence as there’s much wild life around and they’d be into it at the first little shoot.
I know, get a dog – uh-huh have one.
Although the raccoons, wild turkeys and deer are bigger than the dog and he’ll run them off IF he spies them before bedtime or before breakfast, but he doesn’t stay out at night. And now he’s now demanding and expecting a ‘cookie’ EVERY time he chases anything off…highway robbery I say.
Stay our all night? Not this beady-eyed vermin chasing, mice catching, chipmunk harassing pouch, nope, he has to have his nice’n soft (dead, but organic) sheep skin cushion for his nightly beauty sleep.
A plant can’t tell the difference if it gets it’s nutrients from cow shit or chemical fertilizer – so it is illogical to assume organic is better for you.
As for pesticides and herbicides, they are regulated and there is no evidence they are creating a harm. There are claims, but that is not evidence. Also the yields from conventional food is far superior meaning less land is needed for agriculture, less machinery, less of just about everything. Let them have their $8.00 carrots.
“100 miles is 160.9 kilometers. Your conversion factor is reversed.
Posted by: political junkie at August 1, 2009 9:06 PM ”
Mea culpa.Sad thing is I convert Turdeau math to imperial in my job constantly! Blame it on the brewskis….:)
The MSM rocks when it says what you think.