Never Let An Idiotic Market-Disrupting, Bureaucracy-Expanding Idea Go Uncopied

27 Replies to “Never Let An Idiotic Market-Disrupting, Bureaucracy-Expanding Idea Go Uncopied”

1. Yup, Canadians at various levels have been doing this for the last generation. We look at the US,
   find what is worst in American ideas and practice, that which really doesn’t work.
   We duly and carefully note that it is bad.
   And then we copy it.

2. Seeing as how Californica is out of cash, they probably will be issuing IOU’s instead.
   That the ticket, paint them green and call it ‘green stamps’.
   /the new currency of the 21st century

3. The is the death of the hotrod culture and after market speed parts industry. Today’s beater is tomorrow’s hotrod. No beaters, no future.
   And it will do nothing at all for the environment. Nothing.
   Turbocharged Trabant, anyone? 50 horsepower!

4. This could literally take dozens of inefficient cars off of the road!

5. This guy isn’t even recycable. His own compost pile would reject him.

6. The average clinker in the vintage they cite is worth more in the driveway than in the jubk yard for those forced to find a cheap way to get personal transport on fixed incomes. They’re cheap reliable transportation, that’s why they’r out there!. The only kind Obama bots can afford. So sell the working $3500 klunker and buy a $30000 high maintenance income black hole, ya sure. Get stuffed.

7. I am no math wizz but I can’t see going into 20 30 40 grand into debt just to collect 3500 on a vehicle that will likely have this “rebate” added to the price before you see it.

8. In Canada Ford has been marketing their vehicles through big discounts which has been very successful because Canadians love a bargain. Now if government was serious about supporting the auto sector they only need to eliminate sales taxes at both the federal and provincial levels. Nothing else is required to stimulate sales and the fallout would be that old clunkers would die a natural death.

9. This is designed to make the working poor give up their vehicles.
   The current CAP program will subsidize the smog test, then the car is worth a MINIMUM of $3500. (in green credit alone, never mind the actual inherent value).
   This means there will not be any cars available for less than $3500. that will be licensable in California.

10. Not sure if this idea is necessary. My 1993 Saturn is being taken off the road by the hydrocarbon police in October because there’s no chance it will pass emissions testing in the next Air Care for B.C.
    But if big government wants to help me get some cash for it, all the better for me. Maybe not to taxpayers… oh wait. I’m a taxpayer. Never mind.

11. Raphael:
    BC is one of the few plaes with such laws. Older cars than yours are exempt BTW. And they typically are well maintained rarely driven collectables.
    There are however lots of what the EPA calls Gross polluters – vehicles that are pre sophisticated pollution control technology cars that literally are a thousand times more polluting than a new car (classed as a ULEV). Had the BO administration paid cash to get these beaters off the road with out worrying about the fuel economy trade off they would get my support. Cars before EGR technology actually pollute more sitting in the driveway on a hot day than an operating modern car does. It should be noted that some of the absolute worst polluters are models favoured by the tree-hugging set – VW beetles and vans with air-cooled engines. Warren kinsella was a proud owner of a beetle last I heard.

12. Raphael, your 1993 Saturn has electronic fuel injection, yes? If it has an intact catalytic converter, decent spark plugs and hasn’t broken a piston ring or something, it’ll pass smog check.
    That’s the joke.

13. “there’s no chance it will pass emissions testing in the next Air Care for B.C.”
    Don’t be such a pessimist: i passed a 92 lumina last spring. Took a new oxygen sensor and some work on the injectors, but I’m a tad suspicious about the injector work – various people have told me it’s a scam. But hey, i got the piece of paper for about what i figured to pay, it always manages to be around the monetary limit…

14. If I decided not to own a car already can I just get $3500 cash now?
    If not I don’t see why I have to pay some polluting ass to buy a new Jetta.

15. There is the Cash for Clunkers, sure, but there is also the ability to take the full depreciation on a new SUV or Pickup with a GVW of over 6000 lbs if you own a business. I think I will just buy a new Yukon. To hell with Cash for clunkers, It is just not worth it. I have a clunker that I was offered 3K for by the dealer, cash for clunkers raises its value to 3500 if I buy the Yukon Hybrid. It is just not worth the extra money for the hybrid.
    I guess I should figure out the break even gas price for the hybrid. I am betting it is pretty high, but probably not out of Obama’s dreams for a carbon tax.

16. I’ve owned a lot of cheap used vehicles. From my experience, anything worth $3500 is probably quite servicable, especially a pickup. My last used truck was a Nissan that cost me $2700 to buy, and by the time I sold it to someone else, I got $1400 for it. Although it was 21 years old, it ran fine and everything on it worked perfectly and it never needed anything beyond the normal, quite minor, and inexpensive service. If I factor in the $900 write-off cheque I got from ICBC (body-damage, which I fixed myself for around $350 in parts), the cost of ownership probably worked out to around $5.95 per Month.
    The only reason I reluctantly got rid of it was that I wanted something with 4WD. My quite *modest* new truck would have a monthly payment of $445 with 0% over 5 years. Gee, the new truck is almost 100 times more expensive — and it’s got worse fuel economy. That’s not even taking into account the rate of depreciation on a new vehicle is many times higher than on a used one.
    If someone drives a beater, it’s for one reason only — IT’S CHEAP — Incredibly cheap, if you know what you’re doing. What kind of chump would take $3500, just so they can go into debt? That is complete idiocy! If I still had my old truck, I know where I’d tell them to stick their $3500.
    A vehicle is probably the worst place to invest your money — and that is exactly what these types of government policies are promoting. No matter how you polish that turd, from a financial perspective, a new vehicle is ALWAYS a bad deal.
    What’s particularly stupid about offering money for old cars, is that eventually, the problem takes care of itself without any government intervention. My old truck may be a little bit of an exception, but sooner or later they all die, and you trade up to something newer. No taxpayer money needed.

17. I have a functioning ’87 full sized truck….likely worth -$1000.00
    If this goes through it is worth much more….to sell to somebody intent on trading it on a new set of wheels…..
    Beauty!!!!!!!

18. sasquatch — no THAT’s using your noodle!

19. But didn’t we do something similar with air conditioners a few years back? You got a rebate for replacing your old low-SEER unit with a new high-SEER one. Over a couple of years, the program probably saved money by not having to burn more coal and gas (in Ontario, at least, we use hydro and nuclear first), not having to buy power from other sources, and not having to build new power plants. I seem to recall reading in The Atlantic a few years back that if all the 6-SEER a/c units in the (admittedly much hotter) US were replaced by high efficiency units, they wouldn’t have to build a new power plant for 20 years.
    That said, I don’t think Canada has the same problems as the US with cars. We don’t have a huge imported oil bill we’re trying to cut. With the Drive Clean program in Ontario, the air quality in southern Ontario is certainly better, and so much so that I doubt there are many private cars left that cause any appreciable pollution. (Ironically, the biggest polluters I see are the TTC’s buses, belching out clouds of black smoke while carrying two passengers.) I haven’t been to the lower Mainland in a while, so don’t know if BC’s program has had any effect; perhaps someone could enlighten me. Finally, we’re much stricter about the quality of car you can drive, whereas in the US, there are cars that are more bondo than sheet metal still on the road. I can’t see any justification for a “Cash for Clunkers” program in Canada.

20. “My 1993 Saturn is being taken off the road by the hydrocarbon police in October because there’s no chance it will pass emissions testing in the next Air Care for B.C.”
    Before you do anything else, find out how to reset the engine computer. Doesn’t matter if it has a carburetor and is an 87. That’s what I found with an 87 Mazda. The Dealer was stumped. I spent the money for a conditional pass and found out over 16mos later what the problem was.
    And you’r right. This is an idiot idea.

21. After a month or two of looking around I managed to find a 93 Grand Cherokee for $3500. It runs and gets me around town which is all that I want out of a vehicle. For longer trips I generally rent a vehicle. Almost bought something new this year as the 0% interest was tempting but what I want I can’t justify putting the money out for. A 2009 Grand Cherokee was $61,000 which is ridiculous and I’ll stick with mine.
    I now regret letting 2 65 Valiants go for $500 a few years ago. If I’d hung onto them a bit longer could have gotten $7000 for the pair but at least the guy who bought mine was planning on rebuilding one.
    There’s a lot to be said for older vehicles (pre 1970) as they are EMP proof. If the Chinese decide to detonate a 10 Mton nuclear device a couple of hundred miles above N. America the only vehicles that will be running afterwards are those ancient “clunkers” that the government seems determined to get off the road.

22. Kevin B. –
    “I haven’t been to the lower Mainland in a while, so don’t know if BC’s program has had any effect …”
    Nope. BC “AirCare” program doesn’t design or build new vehicles, so they don’t get any credit for that. They claim credit, but they’re just doing a raindance in the middle of thunderstorm.
    Just to add insult to injury, they charge you $45 every year for this charade — as you listen to a recorded sermon from David Suzuki. I’m not kidding.
    Air quality in virtually every North American city improved dramatically from around 1970 onward, long before “AirCare” ever existed in the lower mainland. That has everything to do with automotive engineering, and nothing to do with AirCare. It would be like if I showed up at my neighbour’s house with my garden hose, just as the fire trucks were leaving, after putting out the fire in his attic, expecting to be congratulated.
    Incidentally, I lived in the lower mainland when I had my old ’87 Nissan. Some of the pollution contnrol stuff had corroded so badly, I just pulled it out. I wasn’t subtle about it, either. I even welded a loonie over the hole in my (probably completely non-functioning) catalytic converter, where a rusted tube had broken off. It was pretty obvious that I had tampered with it. Replacing all of these dubious pollution control components would have cost close to $1000. Ripping them out cost $0.
    When it came due for it’s emission test, I just adjusted the distributor to retard the timing so much, the engine hardly new which way to turn over. On a near empty tank, I’d dump in a load of methanol, just for good measure. Needless to say, the truck ran like crap, but they test for emissions — not performance.
    It passed with better numbers every year! And to top it off, as soon as I was done, and right in their parking lot, in full view, I’d pop the hood, and correctly adjust the distributor with a timing light to make it run right. Then I’d throw in a jerry can full of clean gasoline to help flush the remainder of the methanol out.
    Not once did any one of these government drones ever show the slightest indication of suspicion.
    What’s completely absurd about all of this, is that in BC, you can buy or sell a used vehicle, transfer ownership, and have it licensed — with no mandatory safety inspection. In other words, they’re quite happy to let people drive around in cars with faulty brakes, faulty seatbelts, or a steering wheel held on with spit and an old paperclip — but God help you if it fails the smog check! Go ahead, drive a death-trap — just don’t harm Gaia.
    Sorry to have monopolized the comments, but this is an issue that really shows us who’s side the Government is on. Thank my lucky stars I now live in a part of BC where even mufflers are optional, apparently.

23. 1 877 cars for kids. that just flashed through my mind. so the state will remove a source of revenue from a charity.

24. Cash for clunkers won’t help the environment or increase new car sales. People don’t have the money to buy new cars at $20,000 – $30,000.

25. Just what I need — the government using my tax money to out-bid me on parts cars!
    I won’t buy anything made after 1993 — the year air bags became mandatory. There is far too much expensive and often heavy garbage attached to newer cars. Repairing or replacing the fuel pumps, injectors, or exhaust on these government mandated “high efficiency” vehicles is three or four times the cost of the similar job on an older vehicle. Don’t get me started on the short lifespan and high cost of hybrid or fuel-cell parts. I drive cab for a living. I need new ball joints and rotors every couple of months, and a complete rebuild every two or three years.
    I recently bought an ’87 Hyundai for $300. There is no O2 sensor. Rebuilding the engine, transmission, brakes, electrical, fuel and cooling systems cost less than the “green” credit of $3,500 — it is something a cabbie can afford without taking on debt.
    My ’92 F-250 has a 7.3 liter International diesel. With an aftermarket turbo it gets the same mileage and power as the newer PowerStroke diesel, but at much less cost. The injector pump is $600 on mine, $1500 on a powerstroke. New injectors were $40 each for me, $110 for the PowerStroke. and so on and so on. Plus there’s no air bag to break my thumb when I hit a deer.
    You couldn’t pay me enough to cover the absurdly high purchase cost and even higher maintenance costs of a “green” vehicle.
    The best cabs you could ever buy are the Austin FX-4 or a 1980s Mercedes 300SD — both diesels. Each are roughly five grand to buy and five grand to rebuild.
    These guys are delusional if they think they can save the auto industry from the government with more government. It’s a depression. We’re going to be fixing rather than replacing stuff until we have dug ourselves *out* of debt. These debt-spenders are only making things worse!

26. Don’t hate me, but I have the money for a new 40 50K car, and the tax break for buying a big conventional SUV is far more than the Cash for Clunkers money + th $1400 hybrid tax credit, and I own a qualifying 15mpg “Clunker”. After tax write offs, a 45k SUV cost about 30K. Which goes a long way toward the drive off depreciation.
    Makes you wonder who is really to benefit from the program, the environment or UAW. Hint: Only one of them benefits from both tax provisions.

27. Thanks rg; couldn’t have said it better myself. Aircare is fraud, plain and simple.