47 Replies to “Is There Nothing That The Car-Salesman-In-Chief Can’t Do?”

  3. Gee, I am sure glad that politics isn’t involved in any of the decisions regarding GMs operations.

  6. “‘Fascism’ should more properly be called ‘corporatism'” — Benito Mussolini

  7. What really irks me is that Ford Motor Company- that wrote the book on innovations such as mass marketing, (Ex: Model T and Model A, Flathead V-8 etc. etc.,) not to mention that they founded the auto industrty in Detroit– are now faced with unfair competion from the US and Canadian governemnts. Yet they did all of the right things to stay in business.
    I guess the real way to show our disgust with Obama and Co. is to buy a FORD!
    I’m also quite surprised that for decades, the US Presidential limo was a Lincoln, courtesy of the Ford Motor Company. Now Obama has a Cadillac. I wonder how much payola went into that deal!!

  8. Harpo must be almost beside himself in having the Government of Canada own 12.5% of a private corporation! That is a little bit of socialist doctrine isn’t it? Government getting involved in ownership. Steve, Steve, Steve where are those right wing capitalist principles? Oh, I forgot you don’t have too many principles since they keep changing like the blowing wind.

  9. The Canadian bailout ignores and also penalizes Honda and Toyota which has very successful facilities in Ontario !
    The bailout is Trudeau style rewarding failure and penalizing success !

  10. If you do not reward failure and punish success, how do you expect to remake society into something good and just?

  11. T
    Do not be a such a child. Canada has a long history of Crown Corporations and direct Industry Investments. Canada is not the US. We do many things here that are not pure “Conservative” tenants that are in the USA.
    I am against these bailouts but I understand the political reality in regards to integrated manufacturing and pressure from the rregion that has all the people, all I can say is I am glad I do not live in Ontario and I am not having to pay twice, or pay to maybe keep my job.

  13. On the Post Topic…
    GM COB was on CNBC and said that the Government does not want to run GM but will select 5 Board Members directly. Uhmmm the management answers to the board, the board is appointed by the Government. hmmm
    Plus they are writing more corporate governance rules to empower boards more to affect compensation and expenditures. That would be their board…hmmm

  16. The US of Ponzi
    Greg Palast at INFOWARS
    June 2, 2009
    Screw the autoworkers.
    “Steven Rattner, Barack Obama’s ‘Car Czar’ – the man who essentially ordered GM into bankruptcy this morning.”
    “When a company goes bankrupt, everyone takes a hit: fair or not, workers lose some contract wages, stockholders get wiped out and creditors get fragments of what’s left. That’s the law. What workers don’t lose are their pensions (including old-age health funds) already taken from their wages and held in their name.”
    “But not this time. Stevie” “has a different plan for GM: grab the pension funds to pay off Morgan and Citi.”
    “Here’s the scheme: Rattner is demanding the bankruptcy court simply wipe away the money GM owes workers for their retirement health insurance. Cash in the insurance fund would be replaced by GM stock. The percentage may be 17% of GM’s stock – or 25%. Whatever, 17% or 25% is worth, well … just try paying for your dialysis with 50 shares of bankrupt auto stock.”
    “Yet Citibank and Morgan, says Rattner, should get their whole enchilada – $6 billion right now and in cash – from a company that can’t pay for auto parts or worker eye exams.”

  17. foobert
    The GM common stock is worthless and was as soon as they filed for bankruptcy, the method they use is for the old GM corporation and its debts stay in bankruptcy and a NEW company emerges what you are seeing are trade settlements for shorts, many people will need to cover to settle out their positions.
    GM will be on pink sheets until it all settles out.
    The stock will trade until the court dissolves the old GM entity which could take years.

  18. Great we now own 12.5% of another money losing operation. It is a good thing that Harper might be getting rid of a couple of other money losers, like the CBC. Link

  19. Ok let me explain this to Guess What.
    The NEW GM Corporation will issue shares valued based on the assets of the emerging entity, these shares are in a NEW company and the old GM share price has no impact on that pricing. This new entity will NOT BE BANKRUPT.(yet)
    In the short term the new stock will not be worthless and will be worth far more than the Old GM stock.
    Without knowing the amount of shares being issued I cannot tell you what the issue share value will be.

  20. Guess What said
    “What workers don’t lose are their pensions (including old-age health funds) already taken from their wages and held in their name.”
    I might be wrong on this but I was under the impression that the auto workers never paid into their pension fund. It’s too bad if they lose their pensions but I don’t think you can ask taxpayers to pay it for them. We don’t have pensions of our own. Why should we pay theirs?

  21. Jack Frosst nails it !
    If buying Detroit – buy Ford !!
    Does Ford (or Honda or Toyota or any auto manufacture) not have a clear case of gov’t intentionally inflicting harm against them ? Intervention ? Discrimination ? Lawsuit yet to come ?

  22. Posted by: gord at June 2, 2009 2:03 PM
    Above states Greg Palast at INFOWARS
    June 2, 2009
    In the US of Ponzi Land on the employees W2 (Canada T4) a pension deduction should appear or it would be under an agreement the employer pays into the pension fund on their behalf. These amounts may be apportioned between the parties. These funds as you know are protected and should be fully funded. Banks are not fully funded.

  23. Actually, Ford’s finally starting to act like a globally-competitive car company (took ’em long enough).  In the 19 years I’ve had a GM Visa card, I have never once looked at a GM product and said to myself “Hmmmm, that looks like something I’d want to drive.”  I was a hopelessly-naive optimist when I first got the card.
    And now, the “points” on my GM card won’t be worth squat.  Which doesn’t really matter to me, since the only thing I could’ve ever used them on was the one thing I didn’t want — a GM vehicle.
    Garth

  24. Guess What said.
    “..or it would be under an agreement the employer pays into the pension fund on their behalf.”
    Meaning they never paid into their pension plan.
    You can’t claim they paid into something when they didn’t. You can claim that they were promised something and it wasn’t delivered. It’s a big legal difference.

  27. I always thought of Jack! Layton as our prime car salesman, but now Harper has topped him. Take that you socialist swine! Prime Car Salesminister Harper is so awesome he can not convince you to support him in yet another CPC-NDP-BQ coalition, but he can even out-socialist you!! Watch our Prime Car Salesminister grow a mustache that is even bigger than Jack!’s next!

  28. Ford will eventually have to renegotiate their union deals to be competitive, among other things. Unfortunately, this is probably just a temporary phenomenon.

  30. “he can not convince you to support him in yet another CPC-NDP-BQ coalition”
    should have been
    “he can not only convince you to support him in yet another CPC-NDP-BQ coalition”

  32. Posted by: gord at June 2, 2009 2:03 PM
    No gord there is no difference. The wages would be higher and then they could contribute more. Here it is the PA on a T4.
    But I have a great idea. The wise old owls Obama and Harper could swap the 1 in 10 public sector pension with GM shares and when they sky rocket the taxpayers will not have to pay any portion of the EI and CPP. Deficit paid and taxes drop.

  33. Corporate fascism in Canada.
    Get lost, Stronach.
    No taxpayers’ money for your phony “electric cars”.
    …-
    “Magna seeks Ottawa help for electric car
    OTTAWA — Fresh off his company’s acquisition of Germany’s Opel, Canadian auto parts magnate Frank Stronach was in Ottawa on Tuesday seeking federal funds to start building electric cars in Canada for sale within as little as three years.”
    (googlenews)

  34. There already is a Canadian electric car manufacturer the gov was giving the paper shuffle too. This inventor does not need any more competition until this paper shuffled inventor is nicely in the black.

  35. The difference between O and PMSH is the PM has said they don’t expect to get the money back. O says he is going to balance the books and have 4% growth like forever. The new GM will be about 40% smaller than it was which I think is wishful thinking. O wants to build green cars and they are going to gather dust. If you decide to buy a vehicle and you have a choice between a greenie and a model they can’t sell now which would you buy? For the price of a G6 or Buick you can buy a Mercedes 230. If I were in the market I know which way I would go. It is a bad deal no doubt but the parts suppliers need a critical mass for the other manafacturers too.

  36. Guess What said
    “No gord there is no difference.”
    I hope you’re not a law student. If there was no difference you wouldn’t be using two different scenarios to describe it.
    Look at it this way. 2 cars leave Point A. Both cars arrive at Point B. They both took different routes. You would claim that there was no difference in their routes as they both arrived at the same spot. The people in the cars might beg to differ.
    Bottom line: They didn’t pay into their pension fund. Hopefully I won’t have to pay into their pension fund either.

  37. gord
    You are missing the key point, under agreement, for you lawyers. So whether they agree to more salary or pension, the money is the same. You assume the employees are stupid.

  38. Guess What.
    I don’t assume employees are stupid. I’m starting to think you’re stupid though. Now you’re claiming salary and pension are the same thing. Why is one called salary and one called pension then? Just because it’s the same amount of money? I’m not missing a key point here. You seem to be missing basic deductive reasoning skills.
    Here’s another example for you. An apple is a fruit. An orange is a fruit. Just because they are both fruit doesn’t make them the same. If I owe you 5 apples and give you 5 oranges I don’t get to claim we’re even. I don’t get to say “they’re the same thing”.
    I can’t make it more simple for you kid. You need to crack a few books and do some reading.

  39. Guess what: the EEs of GM amd chryco did not pay into their pensions. they were 100% company funded. EEs who were part time or for some other reason were not eligible for Pension contirbutions got the same gross hourly wage as those that did. There were not deductions from the gross wages of pensionable EEs.
    the kicker is that they were 30 and out plans where EEs as young as 48 were/are eligible for full pension.

  40. gord
    More simple for you.
    A salary dollar is a dollar and a pension dollar is a dollar.

  41. So gord, how many apples do you make an hour and how many oranges do you have in your pension fund. And what species are you if you don’t mind me asking?

  42. Guess What.
    You’re too simple kid. You’re back to thinking a salary is a pension because they are both money.
    Now if you had approached this whole discussion by going with the concept that these workers gave up wages to get pension you might have a starting point to discuss. They wouldn’t have gotten more salary though. The bean counters wouldn’t have gone for it. But you insisted that pension and salary are the same. On the books they are not dollar for dollar.
    I’d like to have a pension in your world. I would collect it now and then when I’m 65 go to the boss and tell him I’m ready to start working on my salary. I’m sure the company lawyers would have to admit “it’s the same thing”.

  44. anybody know who is putting out the bumper stickers (ironic) preaching ‘buy north american’?
    does this mean I gotta pick out a so-so GM Saturn built in the suthun confederate states and turn my back on a Toyota Camry built a stone’s throw down the 401 ?
    and does it mean I have to rip out all the foreign built components in the ‘north american built’ vehicle?
    questions questions questions.
    such bumper stickers should be banned with all the rest of the steve harpoon simplistic non-solutions.
    good money (the loonie is up after all) after bad.
    next !!!

  45. Now that Obama is setting Canada’s industrial policy, could we at least get an Obama hood ornament for our $600 per capita ante to keep Southern Ontario going?
    Works out to $2.5 million per job, according to auto industry analyst Dennis Desrochers.
    Thanks for nothing, Obama.

  46. See, this is why people become socialists/Liberals.
    How else could a 31 year old person with absolutely no experience in the auto industry, or without any background in economics become the Car Czar of GM?
    Socialists are basically greedy, power hungry people who want to run big things but don’t want to put in the work/time to get to the position honestly.
    Having a friend appoint you to the job is the bestest and easiest.
    But if this TOTUS insanity keeps up, this recession/depression will stretch out to 8 to 12 years easily.

  47. [quote]A salary dollar is a dollar and a pension dollar is a dollar.[/quote] Guess What
    WRONG.. WRONG
    The US GM pension has more Will-Knots than Nancy Pelosi. Its not clear how many GM spin-offs included a chunk of 401K debt or defind funds
    GM/Hughes held part of the Plan. When GM spun off Hughes & (DirecTV) and then sold Hughes (govt) to Boeing; that part of GM Pension was put in trust as part of DirecTV (they owned ~32%) and DirecTV was sold to Murdock… The GM pension fund Trust did sell large chunks of those Shares…
    Finding the money or obligation will be difficult.
    This is Detroit Union leadership!!!!

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