On January 24, 2002, Jacqueline Watt lost her life trying to prevent a man from stabbing his estranged girlfriend and their two-year-old son, in Langham, Saskatchewan. After the boy's father broke into her friend's apartment, Ms. Watt instructed the mother to run for help while she stayed behind to stop the knife-wielding father from getting closer to the child. In doing so, she was stabbed by the attacker and fell to her knees, severely injured. She managed to get up in a desperate effort to reach the child, but was stabbed again by her assailant. Sadly, Ms. Watt succumbed to her wounds but, thanks to her valiant efforts, the toddler survived the brutal attack.
While police surrounded the apartment, determining if it was safe to enter.
Come on Kate! That's so... reactionary!
Remember, people don't count. Its the RULES that count!
It is worse in Toronto. The po-lice there 'observe and respect', not serve and respect.
A decade of employment equity, combined with sensitivity training and an aversion to the career killer of 'too many arrests of people of colour' have made the po-lice into an appendage of the coroner.
Of course, the Red Star observes none of this.
What a racist outhouse Canada is.
*
if it's any consolation (and i know it's not)... they do the same thing, even when another copper is involved...
"When Sweet went inside to investigate, he was blasted once in the chest with a shotgun. The father of three
was left to bleed to death on the floor for more than an hour as the Emergency Task Force tried to negotiate
with the Munro brothers, who reportedly taunted the dying officer, drank and took heroin."
*
Say what ya want about Montreal, but their rules of engagement were changed for this very reason after Ecole whatever it was.
That is a big part of the reason that the freak last year never made it far enough to become a mass murderer. The local constab took him down in quick time.
Let the peaceful majority carry guns. There would be less of this nonsense.
Let the peaceful majority carry guns. There would be less of this nonsense.
Posted by: RW at April 4, 2009 7:44 PM
--Hear, hear!!!
Shoot Shovel and Shut Up whenever possible. Getting “authorities” of any kind involved in anything these days is asking for unending grief and frustration.
I got pulled over last week and as the cop was writing the ticket, in the hopes of getting a reduction ...
I said "Constable, I would like to buy a couple of tickets to the Policeman's Ball.
He replied "Policemen don't have balls anymore".
I said "That's for sure"
I didn't get the reduction.
During a fine June evening there a 1 yr old child was attacked by the common law husband in the duplex unit attached to ours. The mother of the child had to protect the baby with her body under their kitchen table. She made it out to her balcony and begged us to call 911 which we did immediately and I headed outside to confront the violent coward. I was joined by another neighbour that heard the same commotion we had.
We had to forcibly restrain the guy on the pavement to keep him from running. The police showed up 20 minutes later, with a 5 foot nuth'n female officer asking if the guy was going to run if we let go of him. They casually had him go into the back of the cruiser. Later that evening he was released...and went straight back to the duplex. The woman was afraid for her life and that night moved her family in with the other neighbour that helped me. There was, of course, no room in the women's shelter with no openings in the foreseeable future.
It's my belief that except for a precious few, Canada's police force are little more than ticket writers and aftermath cleanup experts. To serve and protect seems to apply to donuts, timbits and nicotine spike coffee.
Something about domestic violence makes our society's thin blue line blind, deaf and dumb. That's the real crime.
Perhaps if the started hiring cops who were big, tall, tough and brave LIKE THEY USED TO ... we would have more law and order.
A 110 pound 5' 2" police woman or a 150 pound policeman who is maybe 5' 8" tall doesn't make me feel any more secure than fire fighter of the same dimensions.
There used to be a size parameter for these professions as well as a psychological toughness that were mandatory for these professions.
Now we just hire people who feel that if they don't get the gig, they have been discriminated against. That is not a good hiring policy and it doesn't work.
We also need judges with more brains than political connections.
We also need politicians with more integrity and common sense and less psychopathy.
John, that's funny. Ya know, there's a couple of leftist movies out there... "The Secret Policeman's Ball" and "The Secret Policeman's Other Ball".
After reading this post, something tells me those are detective-oriented movies in which a Secret Policeman searches for one of his missing balls, and finds one in each. Perfect to save one of 'em for a sequel...
Martin B.
Sadly true. We used to have the best forces in the World. Now their just glorified tax collectors. Its the Political brass that killed the peace officer image, to become an organ of Governments. That with PC regulations, lower standards & the systematic removal of veterans to start as any good socialists. To create a new force sensitized to Multicultural PC fads.
Besides which their hands have been so tied by a Justice less legal system that is for the criminal. Most have given up. Add to that the lack of moral or ethical standards in education. Is it any wonder even the police need to learn "The smell test" themselves with no principled scope of a moral code? Not just law.
JMO
I've been saying this for some time: Either our courts and clowns* get serious, or "shoot, shovel, and shut up" will move beyond mad cows. Once even the rich can no longer buy justice, they will begin to dispense it. As a society, we do NOT want to go down this path.
*I speak here of the politicians, not the police.
MartinB: Speaking of "donuts, timbits and nicotine spike[d] coffee," the only place I see police officers in my neighbourhood is at Tim Horton's.
Walking home tonight, my husband and I could see flashing lights at a major intersection just two blocks from our house. When we got closer, there was a fire truck and a police car on the scene and a passerby was pointing out to someone drops of blood on the sidewalk. The police officer in the car was a woman, not a big one.
'Anyone know how to find out what happened? Shooting? Stabbing? It was in broad daylight, not quite twilight. Toronto's not a safe-feeling city anymore. Our police officers are here, as Fenris has pointed out, to observe and respect, not to serve and protect: equality and tolerance run amok.
notice how everything bad in this country emanates from "powerful pierre"
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/shot+Vancouver+police+break+enter+target/1423137/story.html
Like this story, from March 20/09, Vancouver FEMALE constable shoots guy armed with small exacto knife?
When I grew up on the Prairies, 1950's/60's, the RCMP officers were usually over six feet and two hundred pounds. They got in a lot of fistfights with the local rowdies, and no one was EVER shot.
PC hiring is okay for some jobs, but if I need a cop, I'd like to see a great big, tough bastard coming to my rescue, than a 105 pound woman!
Well, you can't say the police weren't quick to act against Robert Dzienski wielding a loaded stapler in a secure area of the airport, and now look at the mess they are in.
Jim
The PC hiring of police has gone way too far. We as whites are told that ethnics should be represented and police "their own." This does not apply to the white male, who is not allowed to be hired, even though he makes up about 90% of the applicant pool. Trust me, I've been an applicant. I'm with many of you, I'd rather see a big, intimidating cop at the door than the 5'1 pretty woman with a smile and a notepad and her 5'3 Asian partner. Now these poor cops couldn't break up a bar fight if they had a gun to their head. Kinda makes me miss my good friend Common Sense.
I almost forgot, speaking of standing around, think of how Tim McLean's family felt about the RCMP standing around a Greyhound bus while their son was being cannibalized inside? Something has to give, folks!
Lookit all the policing experts!!
Not a clue between the lot of you.
"Better a gun in the hand than 2 cops on the phone"
dmorris: As well we citizens are supposed to be able to have the same powers as a Police/Peace Officer in making an arrest. We are supposed to be allowed more discretion than a Police Officer when it comes to the precisely appropriate use of force, etc.. In cases such as the Alberta rancher; (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Self+defence+still+inalienable+right/1441018/story.html) it seems to me that the courts are in the process of removing that right through Process.
Does anyone know of a person who invoked their right of arrest? Would be interesting to hear of how such a case was handled by the Prosecutor.
Comments National Post
I couldn't agree more
One must remember this is "police business", they are just protecting their turf as does the whole legal system in this country in these type of situations. How can the system grow itself if us peons actually do something to protect ourselves. Didn't Mr Stelmach just say it himself, more police on the streets. The judicial system wins the police unions win and the politicians win political points, they win we lose.
Shoot shovel and shut up.
"As well we citizens are supposed to be able to have the same powers as a Police/Peace Officer in making an arrest. We are supposed to be allowed more discretion than a Police Officer when it comes to the precisely appropriate use of force, etc.."
That is sooo out of date just as is "trial by battle" ....
Now....if you are attacked in your home you have the constitutional right to...run away.
If you don't you are "taking the law into your own hands."
Self defence is a criminal offence.
Revnant Dream/batb, I accidentally set off the home alarm in the house we rented in central Florida last year at 1 a.m. Within mere minutes I found out that they grow BIG BUBBA COPS in those swamp lands (est 6ft 4" 240+lbs).
A couple of years before there was a cop shot execution style in Lakeland County. The bad guy was staying in a low income housing project just down the road from where our place was. The local SWAT team tracked the creep down and took care of business: http://crime.about.com/b/2006/10/02/florida-cop-killer-shot-68-times.htm
They would have shot him more but they ran out of bullets. Those aren't timbit cops...they're the real McCoys.
Western: your comments remind me of a story in a yuppie magazine in the late 60's or early 70's. The writer and his wife were the frequent victims of crime. At first break-ins and then his wife was nearly assaulted on the way home from her bus stop and he had to start picking her up from work. He also had a similar experience so he began carrying, contrary to California law. After a usual late shift he was walking home from the bus stop when two scruffians approached him and asked him unkindly for his wallet. Rather than comply he stood his ground and one pulled out a knife. He shot the scumbag in the kneecap and the accomplice ran away. He started on his way home again when it occurred he should phone an ambulance. On second thought, he shrugged and just went home.
If you want a good laugh you should come to the Crowsnest Pass and have a look at the 5'- maybe 1" female dwarf that the RCMP thinks is qualified to be a police woman.
Now I have nothing against dwarfs, in fact some of my best friends are dwarfs, but they should seek out other forms of employment.
I have never forgotten the video out of Columbine, Colorado. The cops were hiding behind trucks and trying to sneak up on the school. Inside, wounded people were bleeding to death. I think the "safety" culture has so taken over our cop shops that civilians are allowed to die to limit risk to the police. The lone cop who went into a nursing home and killed the murdering perp a while back had it right, but he would probably be kicked out of a big city department.
Entirely predictable. When guts are denigrated, laughed at, disprised, and school nannies go to every length to beat courage out of their pupils, the result is gutless cops. It's all the worse as "managers" in government teach the police to live by their rules - and there is NO job description even for a SWAT team which will say, "Confront and subdue crazed killers as needed."
Police arriving in minutes then waiting hours ouside for signs that it's safe to enter is becoming commomplace.
Mark Steyn commented on this mentioning the Canadian Greyhound bus incident:
What's the point of calling 911 if they arrive within two minutes and then sit outside for the rest of the day to "make sure it's safe"?
At the Dawson College shooting in Montreal a couple of years ago, a couple of officers happened on the scene to investigate an unrelated drugs incident, called for back-up, entered the building with guns drawn, and shot the shooter - all in three minutes.
If you ever have to call 911, it may be worth requesting that kind of service rather than the world's most heavily armed and lavished equipped yellow-tape installers.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDVjOTMzNWVkODdmMWEyZGE4ZmUzMDJlNGFkZTEwNDA=
Five so-called cops, RCMP at that, tazering a confused non-english speaker to death and then lying to cover up their incompetence.... A few years ago, two of them would have wrestled the poor chap to the ground, handcuffed him and that's all she wrote. He'd still be alive. But the tazer is the lazy and weak cop's way out. It's a symptom of a deeper sickness in the law-enforcement world
There are plenty of good cops out there, but the training standards and policies/procedures have neutered them. Using violence to subdue the violent individuals who are a danger to others (and themselves) is anti-thetical to the exiquisite sensibilities of the ball-less left we idiots have left in charge of our country.
I was there that night, one floor up. It makes me sick to think about how long she might have been alive waiting, just because its "protocol" for the police to wait. Well she died, and I hope the policy makers are happy.
You are right, Tanker, most cops are good people with the right instincts in protecting the public. It's the gutless can't-we-all-get-along idiot lefties that have ruined good police policy across the West.
How many wounded in these incidents needing emergency medical help perish because of this? That's the question the dolts in their media coverage fail to formulate.
I got some real good private email pictures from a Calgary source , where the cops shot out the POS that stole a car and tried to ram the cops. Nice grouping , the front seat of the car had 4 shots straight through the front windsheild.
In the real world a Taser wouldnt have helped. so CBCpravda missed on a story.
this crapweasel was a regular that stole a car and got trapped in a car wash.
good shooting , nice grouping and he "bled out real good"
Who is Steyn talking about when he denegrates those who are heavily armed and are skilled in spreading yellow tape? Is he talking about the South Yorkshire Police, city of Montreal Police or the RCMP?
And, pray tell, why would one include the story of the Grey Hound beheading in this posting? The victim was dead long before any police officer reached the bus. Anything done to the body would not change the outcome. What is your point here, Kate? If its to knock the RCMP, well lets just say that you are way out in left field with this one.
Maybe you want to go after the four who died in Mayerthorpe. Go ahead - give it your best shot. They have broad shoulders. They can take it.
It don't know what your agenda is but including the Grey Hound bus incident with Steyn's piece is just dumb. You're above that.
I if sound pissed its because I am. I want to invite each and every one who has posted on this subject to go over the contributions made on this so-called issue. Is this what we really think of our national police force, or any police force in Canada?
I acknowledge that there is alot of negative stuff associated with the RCMP in the last few years but you all have to understand that most, and I mean most of that shit happened at the top and not with the rank-and-file. The rank-andfile are who we see and who serve us every day.
Let us not forget for a minute that the men and women who wear the uniform - the people we see every day in our lives - get up in the morning, put their pants on one leg at a time, have breakfast, kiss their spouse and kids - wishing them a good and go out there to protect our sorry ass.
You got a problem with that?
I would just love to be able to follow each of you critics around for a day and blast you for every mistake or misdeed you committed on your day.
Give me a break! We all know people from our lives who have become members of a police force. Were they perfect when they went into training? Did you expect them to be perfect when they came out of training?
Enough of this tearing down our police forces. If you thing you can do better - get your ass in gear. More than that - do a better job at what you do lest somebody comes along and hangs one on you.
You don't like my post - BRING IT!!!
as I see it the statist social workers have taken over the police academy!
Yo, Adrian! Is that all you got?
Not alot of posting happening here. Hopefully lots of reading going on with most of the comments made by cop haters.
On balance, isn't it time to get behind our police, support them, encourage them and how about being much more vocal and critical about crime and the dumb laws we have and how we have a "legal" system but we don't have a "justice" system.
Quit blaming those who are out there on the beat and start going after the spineless bastards who make the laws.
Get your priorities straight!
I've posted this before, but perhaps it's time to put it up again.
I play golf with a couple of Toronto cops. They're decent guys, but when I ask them about their jobs, they admit to the most part they're "FIDO" cops - "F*** it, drive on". They are so frustrated with arresting petty dope dealers and felons, wasting their days off to be in court, only to see the crooks let off with a slap on the wrist. If they see someone in immiment harm, they will go in, but for the most part - FIDO.
And they admit, to keep their bosses happy, lots of useless tickets handed out to drivers for even pettier offences, because they can't be disputed. Both of them are waiting for early retirement.
a different bob, when the cops of our fine nation start making victim prevention a priority instead of the current SOP of waiting outside for the aftermath, they'll get much more of my support...and trust.
I'm far from a cop-hater, as I believe are the other commenters you might be referring to. In fact I'd like to find something or someone to hang positive commentary on. But it's tough to be positive when so many people that deserve police protection are discounted and ignored, left to the fates of their domestic demons.
a different bob: I think the comments posted here are not criticisms of Cops, but of the Justice System and it's politics, that they serve. At least that's the way I take it and mine are not intended that way. I consider some of my closest friends, ex-cops, to be the finest of individuals. One of my relatives paid the final price while in uniform so no anti-cop prejudice here. But the over politicizing of them and the system sucks.
Procedures and policies of the System that put the public at risk are what I think the criticisms are all about. The Politicians are scared sh**less of the Media and because of that the media drive the decisions.
I have nothing but respect for the cops---but in my opinion the Crown attys are 3 layers lower than whale excrement.
The first time I had an armed home invasion, all my stuff was locked up and I was injured. The next time, it was locked up because I had foolishly figured lightning would hit twice---WRONG.
I was so irate I took out both with my bare hands....and stopped a .32 slug in the process. The cops assisted by transporting me. Then days later refused to accomodate the crown by charging me with man-slaughter.....
IMNSHO the police are not neccessarilly the weak link in the chain.....but IMO the ER/SWAT guys are cowboys.....they really want to shoot you.
"You don't like my post - BRING IT!!!"
OK DB, HERE IT IS.
Over the years I have heard MANY separate instances of problems with the RCMP. A beating here, a killing there etc. Eventually, you hear so many you think that there must be a connection.
Then the RCMP are called to the Vancouver Airport to deal with an "agitated"man. 4 big cops enter the area where the man is and it takes them 24 SECONDS to evaluate the situation and taser the guy 5 TIMES. Then one of these "brave" cops kneels on the guys neck .He dies. BUT, what is different in this case is someone videos the whole episode. Cops take his camera refusing to give it back so this "hero" gets a lawyer and the media weighs in as well. The guy gets his camera back and the video has a million hits on u-tube. An inquiry ensues and all 4 cops have EXACTLY the same story. The problem is that the "stories" don't jive with the video. The cops were lying to make their story justify their actions. So now you look at other situations where the only person who survives is the cop and you can only hear his side of the story. Like the RCMP in northern B.C. who shot a young man in the head. He concocted a story that was debunked by experts but the guy he killed couldn't tell his side of the story. Now all those previous stories of cops abusing their powers takes on a whole new meaning.
I used to ask cops, who I met on discussion groups on the internet if the police force they joined hired assholes or did they become assholes once hired. I was being facetious. But a relative of mine became a cop. I watched him go from a really mild mannered, nice guy, to the aforementioned asshole. He told me that the cops who tasered Dzakanski were justified because, back in Poland , this guy was a drunk and had been in jail at one time. The RCMP sent their goons to Poland to dig up dirt on this guy to justify their actions. That might have held some water IF they knew this prior to tasering him rather than a year later. My relative also told me that THEY ARE IN CHARGE AND YOU BETTER DAMN WELL DO AS THEY TELL YOU. Having heard that from him I can see why they tasered Dzakanski .
"You don't like my post - BRING IT!!!"
OK DB, HERE IT IS.
Over the years I have heard MANY separate instances of problems with the RCMP. A beating here, a killing there etc. Eventually, you hear so many you think that there must be a connection.
Then the RCMP are called to the Vancouver Airport to deal with an "agitated"man. 4 big cops enter the area where the man is and it takes them 24 SECONDS to evaluate the situation and taser the guy 5 TIMES. Then one of these "brave" cops kneels on the guys neck .He dies. BUT, what is different in this case is someone videos the whole episode. Cops take his camera refusing to give it back so this "hero" gets a lawyer and the media weighs in as well. The guy gets his camera back and the video has a million hits on u-tube. An inquiry ensues and all 4 cops have EXACTLY the same story. The problem is that the "stories" don't jive with the video. The cops were lying to make their story justify their actions. So now you look at other situations where the only person who survives is the cop and you can only hear his side of the story. Like the RCMP in northern B.C. who shot a young man in the head. He concocted a story that was debunked by experts but the guy he killed couldn't tell his side of the story. Now all those previous stories of cops abusing their powers takes on a whole new meaning.
I used to ask cops, who I met on discussion groups on the internet if the police force they joined hired assholes or did they become assholes once hired. I was being facetious. But a relative of mine became a cop. I watched him go from a really mild mannered, nice guy, to the aforementioned asshole. He told me that the cops who tasered Dzakanski were justified because, back in Poland , this guy was a drunk and had been in jail at one time. The RCMP sent their goons to Poland to dig up dirt on this guy to justify their actions. That might have held some water IF they knew this prior to tasering him rather than a year later. My relative also told me that THEY ARE IN CHARGE AND YOU BETTER DAMN WELL DO AS THEY TELL YOU. Having heard that from him I can see why they tasered Dzakanski .
Interesting debate. Some of the shots taken at cops are pretty wide reaching and probably not fair. We can point to many failings by various police organizations, although many of those seem to be centered around the actions of individual officers.
In a perfect world your "5 foot nothing" freindly neighbourhood officer would show up and act as the perfect mediator when you needed her. Likewise, when the chips are down, a Vick Mackey would show up and save your ass and dispense with some real street justice. In a perfect world.
Personally, while I think criticising PC hiring policies is very fair, as the practice is absurd, we would gain more traction going after our justice system that does such a horrible job in backing up our police officers. Why should you be motivated to bust a crook if you know your efforts are in vain as he will be back on the street the next day?
Likewise looking beyond the police, it is truly a sad state of affairs when your society so discourages self defense. Its true much of the time that the police don't, and cannot, prevent crimes. Rather they show up later to pick up the pieces. Everyone knows that concealed carry is strictly prohibited for the average citizen here. This despite the fact that it has proven itself a great crime reducer down south, and that we actually do allow certain civilians to arm themselves. Why is it that an armored truck driver can be armed to protect some petty cash, while I cannot be armed to protect myself or family?
And this anti-self-protectionism extends into our very homes. See Canada's rules on the storage of firearms at home, and ask yourself if we are meant to defend ourselves where we live?
A final side thought on police training. The lead instructor of a very prominent unarmed combat system in Canada had some interesting things to say on proffesional modern day proficency in unarmed combat. He has trained numerous law enforcement and military personel around the globe, up to and including very elite forces. He told me that the general level of competence is dismal at best. It is simply no longer an important part of the training, although it should be.
Why should four big officers immedietly reach for a taser to deal with an irrate suspect when any single one of them should have the skills to quickly sub-due him with their bare hands? Maybe that specific case is a bad example, but the point is Officers need confidence in effective training so they don't need to esculate their force more than nessicary.
Interesting debate. Some of the shots taken at cops are pretty wide reaching and probably not fair. We can point to many failings by various police organizations, although many of those seem to be centered around the actions of individual officers.
In a perfect world your "5 foot nothing" freindly neighbourhood officer would show up and act as the perfect mediator when you needed her. Likewise, when the chips are down, a Vick Mackey would show up and save your ass and dispense with some real street justice. In a perfect world.
Personally, while I think criticising PC hiring policies is very fair, as the practice is absurd, we would gain more traction going after our justice system that does such a horrible job in backing up our police officers. Why should you be motivated to bust a crook if you know your efforts are in vain as he will be back on the street the next day?
Likewise looking beyond the police, it is truly a sad state of affairs when your society so discourages self defense. Its true much of the time that the police don't, and cannot, prevent crimes. Rather they show up later to pick up the pieces. Everyone knows that concealed carry is strictly prohibited for the average citizen here. This despite the fact that it has proven itself a great crime reducer down south, and that we actually do allow certain civilians to arm themselves. Why is it that an armored truck driver can be armed to protect some petty cash, while I cannot be armed to protect myself or family?
And this anti-self-protectionism extends into our very homes. See Canada's rules on the storage of firearms at home, and ask yourself if we are meant to defend ourselves where we live?
A final side thought on police training. The lead instructor of a very prominent unarmed combat system in Canada had some interesting things to say on proffesional modern day proficency in unarmed combat. He has trained numerous law enforcement and military personel around the globe, up to and including very elite forces. He told me that the general level of competence is dismal at best. It is simply no longer an important part of the training, although it should be.
Why should four big officers immedietly reach for a taser to deal with an irrate suspect when any single one of them should have the skills to quickly sub-due him with their bare hands? Maybe that specific case is a bad example, but the point is Officers need confidence in effective training so they don't need to esculate their force more than nessicary.
Sorry bout the double post.
I should add that we don't have to look far to see the sacrifices that police officers make:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/04/pittsburgh-shooting.html
The Greyhound bus incident is a valid point as is the standoffs with natives. somewhere up the food chain is some piece of brass covering his butt and trying to brown nose to the politicians.
The crazy on the bus could have been dispatched quite easily before he went for the driver or defiled the victim. We have all seen the videos of the OPP ignoring the natives on Caledonia and harassing the local residents. Tazers are a method of subduing an individual without lead poisoning. could it be over used? Yes it can as can anything but if you are not in the cop's shoes at that moment then you can't really say now can you.
btw, have known and worked with many cops and had some in extended family.
btw, what is the situation in Caledonia these days?