Save Yourselves, While You Still Can

I wish they would just get it over with. At least then I'd know if I'm working at a dealership or a garage.

An excellent read. Thx for the link.

Written by someone who knows, thankyou. What these people don't seem to understand is the fact that their vehicles cost to much. Vehicles are a necessity, we in any capacity of agriculture, oil,construction etc cannot be without, so when in twenty years a new GM goes from 13,000 to 48,000, and the price of our cattle in 1988 was .92 cents and today we are getting around .99 cents, is it any wonder there are less trucks being sold. Declare bankruptcy! get rid of the leech called the union.

If there's sense in the conditions for the government support, then the back-breaking straw was GM's big debt load.

This person saw it coming a few years ago. Yep, Ms. De Coster: a) noted that GM "arguably" had a negative net worth; b) said that "the government is not going to let GM go down without major intervention." Back in July 2006, no less.

Bartinsky:

silly argument. your cattle are virtually unchanged from what they were in 1988.

Cars are vastly better. they perform better pollute 10 times less (or more) get better mileage, are much safer and are two or three times more reliable. True, they are built with union labour which has increased in cost relative to inflation. so the new car from TATA the costs less than 3000 and is still more sophisticated than your '88 delta might be a closer comparison AND guess what? its cheaper than a car was in '88 in noninflation adjusted dollars.

Interesting read - thanks. I've been following this with particular interest: I grew up just north of Detroit.

This is a very helpful analysis. Thanks.

(We buy VW!)

Personally I can take very little comfort in knowing that my personal situation has me in the same boat as GM and Chrysler....

AS far as the Govt being involved in building cars I am reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a new car and bankrupts his long lost brothers car company. I guess Obama missed that episode.

I think I lost you Gordon, the fact is some of us see no gain for our commoditys. Gordon we change just as quick as any car company here in agriculture, yes take a look at any farm and you will see at least 3 million in machinery and land and that is a small operation. Does your operation need that much to continue to grow more product on the same land base, I think not. Look at the seeding methods in the last 20 years and tell us all if there has not been innovation in agriculture city boy!

Government Motors:

http://tinyurl.com/czsrtf

Further confirmation that the NDP have at last been elected as the Federal government. Who knew it would happen in the USA instead of Canada?

I am in agreement with much of the article. The problems identified are the right ones and the bankruptcy courts deal with them all the time.

That being said, normally a bankruptcy, one that is meant for re organization not insolvency, has financing lined up, called Debtor in Possession or DIP.

rigth now DIP doesnt exist, at least not in the amounts that GM and Chrysler need. This is because of the unique nature of this credit freeze. It is legitimate for government to provide that financing, and the DIP financiers have a say in what happens.

Don't weep for rick wagoneer being gone, his 2IC was put in charge. This is headed toward Bankruptcy in form if not actuality, even though the UAW, let alone the CAW has been fighting this along the way.

The bindholders are going to get shaved (finally) the pensioners are going to get shaved (finally).

This isnt the end of the world. In the early 80's a large Canadian manufacturer went under and the pension and health benefits were cut to the workers and management. That company was called Massey Ferguson. Our family survived that, my dad had been there 20 years, and so will everyone else. The taxpayers didnt help my family keep 100% bennies and they shouldnt for autoworkers.

Obama fired the CEO of GM, thereby turning it into Government Motors.

Yet, the president of the UAW still has his job.

Hmmmmm.

"Some find in this descent into large-scale industrial policy a whiff of 1930s-style fascist corporatism. I have my doubts."

Krauthammer* has "doubts".

Krauthammer's view: socialism*

"Obama's real agenda: his holy trinity of health care, education and energy. Out of these will come a radical extension of the welfare state, social and economic leveling in the name of fairness, and a massive increase in the size, scope and reach of government."

O's path forward is either "1930s-style fascist corporatism." or socialism.

Is that a Hobson's choice?

You have no real options; either accept or refuse.

*http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2221380/posts

A couple of weeks back I was in an online discussion with an autoworker. I reviewed GM's 2007 annual report (the latest available). GM had a gross margin on sales of 4%. Using the 7% labour cost provided by the autoworker and a $70/hour labour cost provided by the CAW and GM, reducing GM's labour cost to a quarter of the current level (eg $14/hour plus statutory benefits such as a couple of weeks vacation, EI, CPP, Employer Health Tax, Workwers' Comp premiums) will only move the gross margin on sales to 10%.
You can dance around it until you are blue in the face but a manufacturer with a 10% gross margin is still not viable. From that 10% must come all overheads (accounting/marketing/engineering), debt interest payments and finally shareholder profits. Furgetaboutit!

Kate, wasn't the train wreck video supposed to be in the GM story?

More gospel* from O'Great Leader.

Harness = Chains of slavery.

"It’s because their governments have harnessed their people’s hard work and ingenuity with bold investments—investments that are paying off in good, high-wage jobs.”"

Governments, aka the State + "harnessed" "people's" = corporate fascism/socialism.

What's new about that?

Mao Stlong, among others, did that.

Orbis : The life of Mao Zedong - Published by Elsevier
he harnessed the forces of agrarian discontent and nationalism to turn a tiny band ... Then after establishing the Chinese People’s Republic, Mao launched a ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0030438700000491

"Green Jobs cost more than regular ones, (Surprise)
*http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2221520/posts

@Norm Matthew

From my understanding the 7% labor cost is heavily misleading and only covers the salary and immediate benefits, and certainly does not cover the unfunded liabilities associated with the union.

I don't know if the statement is accurate, but a couple of years ago I heard people arguing that the reason why American automobile manufacturers don't focus on small efficient automobiles is that the pensions and benefits of retired employees works out to (roughly) $2500 for every car sold; and the companies can not be profitable selling a "Honda Civic" ...

Obama bows to Saudi king: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S60U-hl35Gw

This is who the master is.

It was put about a decade back that FORD spent more money on employee health care that it did on STEEL.

"Save Yourselves, While You Still Can"

The warning is clear: "Save Yourselves, While You Still Can".

Obama has downgraded the USA to a third-world country.
Obama says Europe has the "leading role in the world."

"Obama said:>>>> “In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world."

"His [Obama] speech in Strasbourg went further than any United States president in history in criticising his own country’s action while standing on foreign soil."
...-

"Barack Obama: 'arrogant US has been dismissive' to allies

President Barack Obama has offered an apology for the Bush era, declaring that America had “shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive” towards its allies."
urlm.in/cash

New for '10, the Chevrolet Pelosimobile and the Pontiac Obamawagon. No carrying or hauling capacity but solar powered to keep you from driving around too far.

Death by government for General Motors.

GM and Chrysler in canada will die no matter how much money us Taxpayers pump into it.

Canada has had a SCOC ruling for Survivor benefits and CPP to be transfered to the spouse or Partner.
Just imagine the financial burden in the future when older men take over the benefits and pension of the dead spouse but then re-marry a 35 year old female.
Later on the older husband dies and the 40+ wife then gets survivor benefits and pension money, she the re-marries a 30 year husband and they both share the riches.
But this problem for the Unions and Government could mean that the Benefits and Pensions that were expected to support someone over 65 until their death,the crisis will start when Survivor benefits and pension money keeps being paid out for 2 or 3 times as long as the Worker was actually Employed and paid into a plan.

What killed GM in the States was the Medical benefit demands by the UAW to extend to relatives outside of the immediate family for person not related to any Auto Industry job.
Shame on the Suits at GM for knowingly sucking out Million$$ from the Company as they knew the future would be a giant implosion of the whole structure , and Shame on the Union Bosses that promised the workers a Job-4-Life Lottery ticket
just to stay in power as the leader when they too knew it couold not last.
Finally, shame on the Politicians who completed the 3-Stooges Charade where they all blamed the other 2 stooges and then played the Taxpayers for suckers with they threats of a Depression because the Industry is too big to fail.

Me view is that the Unions are running a legal Ponze Scheme or Pyramid scam where the first-in workers pay a Kick-back for the income , the new workers must be brought in as senior workers climb the ladder with more money and better pensions. Once the Pyramid becomes inverted from the bloated scam for older workers drawing from the money pool,the newcomers are left holding the bag as they try to support 4 or 5 First-in members and have no job security one it collapses under its own weight.

Union bosses skim money off the whole workforce to pad their pension and fund the Resorts and clubs for upper Union members.

CUPE and the Toronto City Unions are next to bankrupt the system by the inverted Pyramid except that the Taxpayers will get screwed as each of us will be burdened with supporting 4 or 5 unproductive Union workers with huge pensions and endless demands for more Holidays and fewer hours and raises to boot.

David Miller won't be the first American to bankrupt a City, in fact, I won't be surprised if there is a massive corruption and Tax-Fraud scam where Toronto will have there first Mayor to be arrested and convicted for it and go to jail in a Federal prison.

GM and Chrysler in canada will die no matter how much money us Taxpayers pump into it.

Canada has had a SCOC ruling for Survivor benefits and CPP to be transfered to the spouse or Partner.
Just imagine the financial burden in the future when older men take over the benefits and pension of the dead spouse but then re-marry a 35 year old female.
Later on the older husband dies and the 40+ wife then gets survivor benefits and pension money, she the re-marries a 30 year husband and they both share the riches.
But this problem for the Unions and Government could mean that the Benefits and Pensions that were expected to support someone over 65 until their death,the crisis will start when Survivor benefits and pension money keeps being paid out for 2 or 3 times as long as the Worker was actually Employed and paid into a plan.

What killed GM in the States was the Medical benefit demands by the UAW to extend to relatives outside of the immediate family for person not related to any Auto Industry job.
Shame on the Suits at GM for knowingly sucking out Million$$ from the Company as they knew the future would be a giant implosion of the whole structure , and Shame on the Union Bosses that promised the workers a Job-4-Life Lottery ticket
just to stay in power as the leader when they too knew it couold not last.
Finally, shame on the Politicians who completed the 3-Stooges Charade where they all blamed the other 2 stooges and then played the Taxpayers for suckers with they threats of a Depression because the Industry is too big to fail.

Me view is that the Unions are running a legal Ponze Scheme or Pyramid scam where the first-in workers pay a Kick-back for the income , the new workers must be brought in as senior workers climb the ladder with more money and better pensions. Once the Pyramid becomes inverted from the bloated scam for older workers drawing from the money pool,the newcomers are left holding the bag as they try to support 4 or 5 First-in members and have no job security one it collapses under its own weight.

Union bosses skim money off the whole workforce to pad their pension and fund the Resorts and clubs for upper Union members.

CUPE and the Toronto City Unions are next to bankrupt the system by the inverted Pyramid except that the Taxpayers will get screwed as each of us will be burdened with supporting 4 or 5 unproductive Union workers with huge pensions and endless demands for more Holidays and fewer hours and raises to boot.

David Miller won't be the first American to bankrupt a City, in fact, I won't be surprised if there is a massive corruption and Tax-Fraud scam where Toronto will have there first Mayor to be arrested and convicted for it and go to jail in a Federal prison.

It irks me that my hard earned tax dollars are supporting these unions

All three of my vehicles plus my wife's car are GM. Heck,if they built motorcycles and tractors, I'd own one of each of those, too!

But the UAW has extorted the life out of GM so that it can't make a profit building cars and has to be propped up with taxpayers' money, which basically goes directly to lazy, over-paid, over-indulged factory workers and their beneficiaries.

Here's an interesting article, written in 2006: [url]http://mises.org/story/2124[/url]

and a few snippets:

"Unbelievably, at its assembly plant in Oklahoma City, GM is actually obliged by its UAW contract to pay 2,300 workers full salary and benefits for doing [i]absolutely nothing.[/i]"

"Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit. And the far greater part of that difference is the result of nothing but GM's being forced to deal with the UAW."

"without the UAW, the cost of employing a GM factory worker, including wages and fringes, would not be in excess of $72 per hour" (remember - [b]this was in 2006[/b])

"...attempting to pay a ransom to its UAW workers of up to $140,000 per man, just to get them to quit and take their hands out of its pockets."

"...healthcare obligations that account for more than $1,600 of the cost of every vehicle it produces."

"...pension obligations which, if entered on its balance sheet in accordance with the rule now being proposed by the Financial Accounting Standards Board, will leave it with a net worth of [i]minus $16 billion.[/i]"

If bankruptcy can get GM out of clutches of the UAW, maybe it can be saved.

As much as I like to bash unions, management and government ultimately none of these are at fault for the imminent failure of GM and Chrysler. The failure is much more societal/cultural insofar as Europe/North America stopped producing real wealth shortly after WW2. We have been accumulating money and goods but we have failed to produce real wealth that is to say CHILDREN. Our failure in that area is about to result in the death of our culture and the drop in net value of everything we own.

On September 11, 2001, right after the the terrorist attack, the Big Three and Harley Davidson donated unlimited funds to the rescue efforts. Period. End of disscussion. Eat your import ! Prove me wrong and I will eat my laptop !!!

What killed GM was $4.25 a gallon, she was sustainable at $2.00, but not at $4.25.

Now, Folks won't buy new, b/c who can afford a $400/month Vehicle along with a $400 a month gasoline bill, add $200 for insurance and that a $1,000 a month to ride around.