Imminent Danger

Didn't this "phone the White House first" kind of thing get a buttload of guys killed in Vietnam?

Just wondered if anybody else remembers that.

God forbid the Americans ever have to pay Somolian pirates a ransom.

They got enough pirates on Wall St.

Almost all of those pirates live in fancy mansions. Retaliatory strikes with a few unmarked F-18's could cure the problem in a hurry.

Not only that, but as both bloggers have pointed out, the FACT that there were TWO phone calls to the White House, suggests only one thing.

That Obama was, as these bloggers point out, not allowing lethal force but restricting it. As noted, any soldier has the right to use force to protect himself. Admittedly, Phillips is not in the navy and this was not a military action but it was a criminal action, and the Constitution allows the use of force to protect one's life and property.

The phone calls were to ask Obama to remove the restrictions on the use of lethal force. And with a successful operation - the WH and Obama leapt in to take all credit. Heh.

I don't think I've seen, ever, such a manipulative and 'ad campaign' processing of information in the N. American political arena. The Obama agenda is always the same: misinform, manipulate, disable the freedoms of the individual. To gain power.

Is it just me or is Obama a black Jack Layton?

The Maersk Alabama was in imminent danger the moment the pirates boarded the ship replete with AK47s.

Usually pirates are armed to the teeth, so when exactly was it that the crew and captain were ever out of imminent danger? All you need is one twitchy finger.

If you need special authorization for Rule of Engagement (ROE) over and above regular standards of engagement no wonder this escapade took 5 days.

But hey it didn't take slow the pirates down a bit as they took another 4 ships the following day, albeit without American flags.

The four pirates who attacked the Alabama were between 17 and 19 years old, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said.

"Untrained teenagers with heavy weapons," Gates told students and faculty at the Marine Corps War College. "Everybody in the room knows the consequences of that."

U.S. officials were now considering whether to bring the fourth pirate, who surrendered shortly before the sniper shootings, to the United States or turn him over to Kenya. Both piracy and hostage-taking carry life prison sentences under U.S. law.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

"Is it just me or is Obama a black Jack Layton"

both are useless, empty , ballsacks

Sure you have ET. President Johnson. Remember those guys? Calling yea or nay on air strikes from the White House situation room? Oh yeah.

But Obama does seem to be reaching for new lows here, if only because Johnson's crew of worthless d1ckheads have already blazed this trail. The One follows this path knowing full well exactly what the results are going to be (dead soldiers) and not caring a damn.

Johnson at least had the stupidity excuse. He was just too dumb to figure out what was going to happen.

I think the US did the right thing. The goal is to get the captain back alive and they succeeded. They tried negotiating and it bought them enough time to understand the pirates, do some planning and to sneek 3 snipers onboard (it probably took a few days to figure out how to get them there and get them there undetected. Saying repeatedly that the captain was in danger is just good PR in case you have a bunch of nuts trying to defend the pirates. Saying that Obama made the decision is also a good thing because he is still in everyone's good books.

In the Battle of Mogadishu, 1993, the Americans killed an estimated 1,000 members of Somali militia at a cost of 18 American lives. This prompted Bill Clinton to withdraw U.S. troops from the mission. In a country where life is cheap you can draw your own conclusions as to what lesson Somali warlords drew from this. It should also be noted that Osama Bin Laden specifically mentioned this engagement and withdrawal as an example of the West's lack of resolve in one of his "weak horse/strong horse" pronouncements.
FBI negotiating teams be damned. The U.S. Navy should take a page out of history books and attach a sufficient number of hangnooses onto their davits and announce their intentions to use them to their fullest at the earliest opportunity. Mind you, I'm also fine with the use of snipers, 5 inch cannons and Vulcan gatling gun systems also.
Of course, they could take a page instead from the Canadian Navy and fly a helicopter overhead hanging a sign that read "Stop". How is that Canadian government literacy program in Somalia doing anyways?

Micromanaging a military operation from thousands of miles away by an individual with no military experience is a recipe for disaster. The only role of the CIC should be to ask the military to act to perform a given mission and then leave all the details of how that operation is conducted to the local commander. Seems very straightforward to me but democratic presidents seem incapable of understanding this principle.

"Is it just me or is Obama a black Jack Layton?" Or a black Jimmy Carter.

Obama's only passion is the redistribution of wealth based upon taking it away from "them" and giving it to the people who adore him.

Who said, "Money can't buy me love"?

Everything else is a "distraction" that can only be judged by the degree to which it enhances or degrades his image.

Let's see:

Bump off a couple of funky Somalian teens?

Hell, the Captain's from Vermont ... they're with us ... it'll offset the military budget cuts ... sure ... why not?

Now ... um ... let's get back to the important stuff ...

Shite I have to do more than say present? Ok I'll hmm..eh..I... Is it above the captain's pay grade? hmm..eh..I will show that American lives are sacrosanct but hmm..I.. gotta do it so he takes the fall if it goes wrong. Rahm get out the spin dryer just in case someone should blame me for anything.
Who knows maybe he learned something. People that do this kind of stuff are very very good at it and you should pretty much stay out of the way 'till it's over..then take credit.

The only way the Military will look up to this Obama prick is from a grave. Hopefully they and everyone else can get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan as quickly as possible. With Bozo in command you know Afghanistan will become another political/Viet Nam War with Pakistan the politically untouchable supplier of arms and insurgents as was China and Russia in Viet Nam.

All the right I felt and still feel about that area is no more, get out before this black Alfred E Newman commander in chief lets has roof fall in. I with draw any and all my support for the cause in Afghanistan with this idiot in charge, bring our guys home ASAP. Harms way is about to become a highway.

maybe obama should be in a lifeboat.

et, this was an act of war.

Good field work.

Bad office work.

Again.

R Clarkson, if I remember the story correctly, the stop sign was hanging out the helicopter... directly beneath the door gun.

And the pirates ran away, too.

Its like I always say, you can get more with a smile and a door gun than you can with just a smile.

...Canadian Navy and fly a helicopter overhead hanging a sign that read "Stop" ~ R Clarkson

That would have to be: "Arrêt / Stop"

"Shite I have to do more than say present?"

Yes BO's voting history in the Senate reminds me of the "Flight of the Concords"(highly recommended) and a meeting with their manager: "Jermaine present, Brit present, Murray present"

It seems the American electorate has the combined IQ of the three chaps from New Zealand. BONGGGG!

WRT micromanaging military operations, I’m reminded of the ship that threatened the American war ship during the American Primaries. Fred Thompson said something about “meeting them virgins”. The question was “do you approve of how the Captain handled the situation”. Each GOP respondent stated only the Captain is in the position to make that decision, and they would defer to his training/expertise(and the fact he’s f’n there). I sure would have liked to hear how the Democrat candidates would have answered this same question; but, if I remember correctly during the Democratic primaries, they didn’t have discussions about things like policy.

glas

Don't know if that will work. There ain't too many muzzies named Art.

>>The four pirates who attacked the Alabama were between 17 and 19 years old, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said.

That's an average age of 18. As we were repeatedly reminded at the time, that was also the average age of US soldiers in Vietnam. So, what's the problem?
I was able to join the Canadian Militia at the age of 15 by lying about my age, a fact that the persons who signed me up were well aware of. Did that make me a "child soldier"? At that time, shortly after the end of hostilities in Korea, there was a distinct possibility that my unit might have been called up and sent there, if the fighting broke out anew.

Albertaclipper,

Child Soldier?...as I have been pointing out repeatedly....NO...you would have had to have been under 15 to be a child soldier. Now whether you were legal under canadian law is a different matter, but by Geneva and by statutes used to convict Charles Taylor and others it is under 15 not 15 and under. Omar Khadr was not a child soldier.

As for the issue, well I heard a day or so before the incident that the UN navy was beginning to chafe under White House restrictions. It was quiet unattributed sources, so clearly the Navy got it done.

I have less toruble with Obama wanting to be careful, he is new at this after all....but one hopes he has learned his lesson that the US military is actually pretty good at there jobs and just because the RoE under Bush gave them significant freedom of action doesnt mean they were bad.

I think Obama is actually liking the kudos he is getting, so maybe some trust has been built. Nothing wrong with civilian control, it is civilian meddling that the issue is.

Let's face it somebody has this event on video. I'm definitely looking forward to a YouTube of the headshots.

YO HO HO and a bottle o'rum.

Agree with several points. First, having military operations directed from the White House is a formula for disaster. Second, the pirates will respond to what pirates have responded to down through the ages i.e. hanging from the yard arm. Third, although we can't be absolutely sure, it seems that Obama is all politics all the time.
But you've got to admire the snipers. Hot Damn! Three co-ordinated shots, at sea i.e. targets moving on the swells, at dusk, with the hostage under imminent threat. Well done!

You never know. Perhaps one of the Pirates is a family member of Obama. Obam with his minions cannot wait for the day of Americas fall. He holds a gun to the Republics head. The bow before a King of Islam has proved his loyalties.

Phantom

You may be right but I'm pretty sure I read a National Post article a few days ago stating that the chinooks deployed in Afghanistan are deploying the first air gunners since the 2nd world war. Might be Air Force specific but I don't recall.

Phanton

Beg yer pardon I think that should be Army specific.

a couple of years of spin and the "dear leader " himself will have wrestled these pirates to the ground.

four legs good, two legs better. ever notice how closely North Korea parallels Animal Farm. and now the MSM has Obama on the same path.

The one certainty is that there are three less pirates to worry about.

Someone mentioned it took three days because it took that long for the seals to get there. I don't think so, Tim. Those lads, and probably the JTF and other elite groups, have a plan and a contingency plan for every likely or unlikely scenario of the face of this planet. I'm willing to be the Great "O" hasn't a clue where all his special black ops groups are.

The issue of the missing birth certificate aside....I thought the ultimate in misinformation was a commentator remarking on the signifigance of a "descendant of slaves" being POTUS.
Actually because OBAMA hails directly from Kenya there are no american slaves in his ancestry but specifically he is the ancestor of a signifigant chief know as a MAJOR SLAVE TRADER.
The obscenity of an inexperienced poser micro-managing a military operation a world away is obvious.

edit:

specifically he is the ancestor of a signifigant chief know as a MAJOR SLAVE TRADER.

ancestor---change to descendant and know for known.

I'm willing to be the Great "O" hasn't a clue where all his special black ops groups are.~Texas Canuck

Despite the gaping opportunity to make a joke of colour, I'm actually curious whether (and why) this hostage rescue incident would be categorized as black ops.

Funny the birthplace of the "Dear Leader" of North Korea is in dispute as well.

Soviet records show that Kim Jong-il was born in the village of Vyatskoye, near Khabarovsk, in 1941,[2] where his father, Kim Il-sung, commanded the 1st Battalion of the Soviet 88th Brigade, made up of Chinese and Korean exiles. Kim Jong-il's mother, Kim Jong-suk, was Kim Il-sung's first wife. During his youth in the Soviet Union, Kim Jong-il was known as Yuri Irsenovich Kim (Юрий Ирсенович Ким), taking his patronymic from his father's Russified name, Ir-sen.

Kim Jong-il's official biography[6] states that he was born in a secret military camp on Baekdu Mountain (백두산) in northern Korea on 16 February 1942.[7] Official biographers claim that his birth at Baekdu Mountain was foretold by a swallow, and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the sky. so Obamessiah like I could puke.

cconn: "it probably took a few days to figure out how to get them [the Navy Seals snipers] there and get them there undetected."

Well, uh, these are Navy Seals. I'm pretty sure these guys could have figured out this manoeuvre pretty quick -- they've had lots of top-notch training, they can swim underwater, they're really cool under pressure, otherwise they wouldn't be Navy Seals -- and were just waiting around, with twitchy fingers, for the OK from the White House.

Does anyone know just how it is that Obama had the last word? What's the process? I've read the links, I've read how the Navy had to ask TWICE for Obama to reinstate their authority to act if the hostage was in imminent danger.

Like other posters have pointed out, the MINUTE the pirates boarded that ship, not only was the Captain in imminent danger, his whole crew was.

I just want to commend the actions of the Seals, which in no way reflect Obama's hesitations.

Wow, I made a funny and didn't realize it (black ops, eh).

Seriously, while the rescue wasn't "black ops", there are Seal teams all over doing stuff who's stories might never see the light of day. Their plans and whereabouts aren't in the Social Register section of the NY Times. Some stories that do make it to public are incredible.

We should rather be reaching out to the moderate pirate community.
Actions like this radicalise pirates and will just recruit more callow youth to the pirate worldview.
We will be creating millions of little Eichpirates (to paraphrase Ward Churchill)
Our gurnards will be swimming home to roost.

I read (can't remember where} the Seals HALO jumped in at night , the ship sent out boat to collect them ,they were stationed on the fantail and waited for the opportunity (and permission).

Of all the things that BO has done to discourage me about his fitness as president this micro managing of the rules of engagement is theist sickening and worrisome thusfar.

LBJ has been mentioned above an he was similarly affli ted with this disastrous tendency. When the enemies of the US firghre out that just holding one American hostage gets you a direct line to the WH then the whole adminstrations leadership can be effectively taken hostage at will.

Sickening.

"And with Obama at the helm, not Bush, the reporters don't have to spend the rest of the weekend trying to prove that the three dead pirates were just three guys who happened to be on the boat"

Borrowing from a guy named Rodger......

Its like he wanted to be able to vote "Present" and yet call himself a man of action.

"What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four-day-and-counting standoff between a rag-tag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.

Initially Phillips escaped his captors and bravely jumped into the water. The Navy commander could have fired on the pirates but Commander in Chief Obama, safely ensconced in the White House and still all warm and fuzzy from the cynical applause he received on his expensive--but futile--overseas trip, denied the Navy permission to mount a rescue operation because--oh dear!--the pirates might be injured"

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/who_gets_credit_for_the_rescue.html

Did anyone see the original breaking news report on CNN when the Phillips rescue was announced to the crew waiting on the Maersk Alabama?

The crew members castigated the press for endangering their lives and the captains as well as the military.

Prior to the rescue the international media were blabbing about the arrival of the Navy and reporting on their proximity to the scene. Giving information to the Somali scumbags far and wide.

Seems that CNN has put that video down the memory hole!

I initialy thought that they would send in divers but probably the visibility would have been too good therefore the divers would have been spotted.

So, the next alternative is several snipers, one target each, firing simultaneoulsy.

This is what happened.

It's a pity that central political control was asserted, for vain PR, not military, reasons. This can give our enemies an idea of how to approach future "negotiations".

First test of the presidency: Obama ices 3 miserable losers and rescues the captain. Obama aced it. Can you say "Hero"?

Compared to: "alright you covered your ass" to the CIA briefer warning of imminent attack; 3000 people killed in the biggest mass murder on US soil as a result; a war fought not against the mass murderers but for a bullshit oil-looting neocon plan; a war that goes disastrously as Osama Bin Laden continues making tapes; and a US city obliterated from the earth.

Gee, no wonder you guys give off the odour of sour grapes all the time!

ET Don't forget the One comes from that region. He is not reliable in times of crisis.

Hey bleet, I've yet to see the US service stations serving up Saddam Heussien brand high octane. It's been almost 8 years too. Did this alleged theft of Iraqi oil suddenly end when Barry O took the oath of office, or is it still flowing?

Obama 'ices' the pirates? Yeah right. Barry couldn't figure out a slingshot let alone find the business end of a Marine's rifle.

You'll be waiting for some time to come for that unicorn that Obama promissed you.

God, I wish I was squeezing that trigger. Hoping the pirates were blasted with mighty 50BMG and not with puny 7.62x51!

"First test of the presidency: Obama ices 3 miserable losers and rescues the captain. Obama aced it. Can you say "Hero"?"

Bleet, the First Mutt didn't do any of that. He sat in the oval orifice and told the guys to do what he knew they were going to do anyway. He did't make that call, his military chief of staff did. The man's no hero. I understand he still can't straighten up without putting his back out.

You know why he had to get a purebred dog eh? The title of First Mutt was already taken...