Fargo Braces For Record Flooding

I know everyone out there is tough and resilient,
but is there anything we can do to help?

i build my own homes...or buy older ones and 'fix 'em up' or add square footage...anyway i'm always fiddling trying to improve their appearance and comfort and of course their value...
but the first thing i do is approximate what a tempest(blow wind and crack your cheeks)combined with a torrential downpour(that is to say one out of the ordinary since i live under a mountain in a subtropical rainforest) were to simultaneate...and the culverts up the mountain were blocked by windfalls and so on...and rogue streams were to occur(as they have)...

having said all that i wouldn't if i lived in that area ever build a house that weren't on stilts dagnabbit!...stilts that would put me above the highest high water on record...

so..ah..thems my feelins damnit...what kind of a goldarn fool would build a ticky tacky in the middle of a goddamn floodplain ?

Relax. The One, PBUH, is at the helm.

I like your cookie sheet example. I've been there, doing terrain analysis research. Between Grand Forks and Fargo, there's no place for water to go but up.

Take a look at the Continental Divide - tinyurl.com/dgjxmx

As they say, "...some travelers battle with insomnia in this stretch where the view cannot seem plainer (nor more planar), although the Red River Valley is arguably plainer and indisputably more planar. And just when the landscape cannot seem any more unremarkable, a highway sign proclaims in oxymoronic fashion (Fig. 1):Continental Divide Elevation 1490 feet. To many travelers of I-94, the sign appears to be a mistake, or perhaps a self-deprecating joke dreamt up by the North Dakota Tourism Office to make light of one of the flattest landscapes in the world..."

Actually, it this area has problems deciding to flow into the Arctic via Hudson Bay, or the Gulf, via the Missouri and Missippi.

"...No geography text that I have found shows that the Devils Lake basin and parts of the Missouri Coteau province in North Dakota are closed basins. Because these basins have no external drainage, they are not technically part of any watershed that drains to the ocean. They are in effect rimmed by a continental divide. As discussed below, these basins are only temporarily closed as water may spill into an externally draining river if the water level rises high enough..."

Is former PM Chretien going to show up and throw another sandbag when the flood moves through Manitoba? At least we won't have to borrow a heavy lift airplane from the US to ferry in supplies like we did in '97.

Relax folks..."The One" is going to make the waters subside, the sun will shine, birds will warble in the trees, and small animals will scamper around the countryside with joy.

After all, there is absolutely nothing that Obama cannot do...

I was one of the many volunteers whom helped sandbag in Winnipeg in 1966, after a Winter of very heavy snow.

Don't remember the flooding being all that bad that Spring.

Obama will fix the problem in North Dakota, by sending all the flood waters North!

Just wait and see.;-)

When I lived in Marshall MN we had to drive most of the way to South Dakota just to see a hill taller than 40 feet.

Fill them sandbags, boys.

I'm wishing them luck, because I live in Wpg on the banks of the Red. Our floodway makes a tremendous difference, but it's not an absolute guarantee. We're expecting as much as 30 cm of rain Sun. and Mon. This should be interesting.

ah don't worry...the A.I.G. of Canada will take up the slack for the fools that build houses on a flood plain...a flood plain that has an irrefutable history of periodically causing billions of dollars in damage.

and the rest of us will take up the slack in increased insurance premiums since ALL the policies go into a national and international pool...

this is a wonderful woeful example of how intellectually slack and amorally fat our 'society' has become...

insurance companies that KNOW they'll be hit hard every once in a while...working in collusion with government that won't spend the money to build the levees that will prevent the losses.....

i'd like to blame mike harris or chretien or the lllieberals generally...but i just can't do it...i gotta blame the eedjits that build their houses and live below sea level like some nappy headed denizen of new orleans.... and THEN blame the MAN!

Good luck, folks. I was living in Manitoba during the '97 flood. It was a nail-biter. The Assiniboine River was mighty high that year, too, and as you likely know, the two rivers meet in the centre of Winnipeg.

To the good folks of Fargo.Apply for your FEMA trailors now,as they will have to do new builds,as the rest are still in New Orleans.Oh,and if the Corps of Engineers are building your new dike/levee,run like hell away from there.

You know, I was sitting here thinking John Begley's comment was kinda harsh...

And then I thought about the dumb f-ks who built down at the bottom of my road here next to the Grand River. Everybody on the banks of the Grand got flooded this year. Anyone with a little dock or jetty on the river lost it.

None of these people had flood insurance obviously, because its FOLLY to build next to a river that floods every other year, .

But I see in the local paper that Jimmy Government is going to bail some of them out, particularly the poor unfortunates that lived in the trailer park in Dunville.

I'm about a klick from the river myself. The very FIRST thing I did when I became serious about buying this place was check the -elevation- here. Lets just say if the Grand rises far enough to get me here at Chez Phantom, Hamilton mountain is going to be beach front property. It could happen, but it has never risen this far before.

I'll be the very first to admit that out west things are different, because of the cookie sheet deal. Its FLAT. I lived there, I know all about it. Tell you what though, I lived on the highest spot in town right next to the hospital.

You want to be within 50 miles of a river or creek, chances are you could get flooded. If you're going to be in a known flood plane, build with the high water mark in mind.

But, people don't. Which is stupid, frankly. Stupidity should not be rewarded as a general rule.

*
we had a similar local disaster-type situation last year...

"The swollen Moira River is only affecting a small group of
homeowners between the hamlets of Foxboro and Cannifton...
a group, I might add... who rather unwisely choose to
reside on the floodplain of the Moira River."

"They call it a "floodplain" because... well... it floods."

truth be told... it happens, to some degree, every spring.

go figure.

*

I may be a little self-centered here, but I'm going to get my butt kicked at work for the next month if this comes to pass. Nothing but helicopters in and out ferrying workers and supplies to the flooded areas.

ah phantom...

so we agree...stupid is as stupid .....oh whatever....there are SO many permutations to deal with...

btw i used to know a guy named 'phantom' on the frank magazine blog....you ain't him are you partner ?

The first, er second settlers, chose the forks. The locals said white man heap big stupid. Should build at Selkirk, never floods there. Winnipeg (muddy water) floods often, floods deep. 1826 was a biggy.
However, river transportation was key back then.

Duffs Ditch certainly was a good idea, helps to offset some of the negatives.

A north flowing river.

A very shallow valley - as flat as 2 feet per mile relief.

The river bottom along with all the land is still rebounding from the weight of two kilometers of ice squashing it - only 15,000 years ago. The land, and the river, are loosing gradient - the ice was thicker north of Winnipeg than south.

The area near Hudson Bay has experienced about 935 feet of isostatic rebound since the last ice age. Of course the rate of rise today in the critical stretch between Winnipeg and Lake Winnipeg is small.

The Assiniboine River diversion sends water directly to Lake Manitoba, bypassing Winnipeg.

Kate's cookie sheet is a good analogy. Also, because the flood water lake south of Winnipeg is about sixty miles long, strong south winds, a common occurrence, can greatly increase the water depth at the north end.

Besides Winnipeg, many small towns are vulnerable and depend on ring dikes. Farms in the deepest part of the flood are hard hit and deserve compensation.

In 1997, most of the Red River Valley was under EMO, military control as many homes had to be vacated. Also sight see-ers on the roads were a major problem. Flying over the flood area was also restricted as helicopters were numerous. I had to obtain a flight permit and transponder code even to fly away from the flood area.

After the flood waters receded, the amount of beached debris was unbelievable - trees, tanks, dog houses, tires, lumber, straw.

But then, the forks were under about 300 feet of water at one time - Lake Agassiz. So they went ahead and built The Forks there anyways. Whats a few feet - virtually every year !!

The Red River valley in Manitoba is some of the flattest terrain in the world. Where I farm the average elevation drop is one and a half feet per mile, for as far as you can see. The cookie sheet is like the Rockies in comparison.

[deleted. Smarten up. - ED]

Not to worry people, Sean Penn will be on the scene armed with an outboard motorboat and a dixie cup. Mayor Naggin has some school busses that finally dried out and Oprah's private jet is ready to dispatch her and her thyroid just as soon as the reports of cannibalism start to scroll across the CNN screen tickerso she can get to the bottom of things.

Obama will forward a Youtube video due to the electrical shock hazzards associated with juicing up all of the teleprompter equipment required for an in-person visit. He will send Hillary Clinton in his place. Hillary will have to fly commercial because Air Force Zero will be flying Earth Wind and Fire back again to the White House for a fun filled night of wagyu, bowling and Boogie Wonderland.

ah!...the 'eskimo' is hip to what's going down ..

we is being 'put together' as the english slang has it...

'he is the one !!!!"..as lardass oprah trumpeted last year..

so..ever wondered why Oprah hasn't been clarionifying the big O since then ?

it's because her handlers have explained to the fat cow that her hero is a non negotiable goof.

I used to refer to 'the other O' as Orca Whinfrey.

Neo:

Thanks for posting the point that everyone misses.

The Red River valley is fertile farmland as it is on a flood plain.

Which kind of means you should not be surprised when it floods periodically.

Hope this doesn't turn out too bad this year

Dave in AB (but ex-Winnipeger)

Locally, we have the town of "High River". It earns its name every spring. Go figure.

The new weather forecast model runs are in. Not good news. Now after a forecast of about 2 to 3 days in advance they're not worth the paper they're written on, but the general idea is that there's going to be a lot of rain in the Fargo to Grand Forks corridor. And a little less here in Winnipeg but still a substantial amount.

(And BTW MJ, it's 30 mm, not cm; a 30 cm rainfall would certainly be disastrous. I heard some talking head on TV say that so I imagine that's where you got the number from.)

Here in the 'peg we can likely expect 30 to 50 mm in 2 shots, one on Sunday night-Monday morning and another on Tuesday night-Wednesday night. The interesting thing about this one is that the rain/snow line location is anything but certain--and if it goes a bit farther east we could have 8 inches of snow in a hurry by Wednesday afternoon.

Farther south, some projections put up to 3 inches (75 mm) on the ground. Add thunderstorms into the mix and the amounts could be a lot higher, albeit in a very small area.

The good news about all of this is that the EMOs are prepared. Essentially the entire RRV in MB is protected to 1997 levels plus 2 feet. So unless something ridiculous happens, instead of this being a disaster, it will merely be a flood of inconvenience.

I wasn't here in 1997, so if the chance arises I will certainly put on gumboots and fill sandbags.

Hah, the old man worked on Red River flood control way back in '61-'64. Spineless operators just about lost a complete Catepillar dozer in the muck, whilst the old man took the controls with one foot on the guard rail ready to jump if the Cat turned turtle.

Rivers flood who would have thought?

Great days in St. Boniface with winters so cold you could freeze your tongue on the monkey bars (which I did at age 5 on a dare) and summers greeted you with the provincial bird the mosquito.

Thanks for the memories Kate!

Hey its just like PM Paul Martin said come "Hell or Highwater!" we will change the way Ottawa works.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

Anyone care to remove Begley's earlier racist post? Thanks.

Actually the Assiniboine flowed backwards during 97

Also, Grand Forks "low lying area" that was flooded in 97(Grand Forks was hit the hardest by far, their dyke broke) is now a green area. They built permanent dykes at the outskirts of this green area that was formerly developed. On the dykes they can also sandbag. Huge difference compared to 97.

Johann: "(And BTW MJ, it's 30 mm, not cm; a 30 cm rainfall would certainly be disastrous. I heard some talking head on TV say that so I imagine that's where you got the number from.)"

Right. I'd like to say it's the kind of blunder we all make at some time, but that's a cop-out. Maybe winter has just lasted so long here that I can't shake cm's from my brain.

yes, flooding on a natural flood plain. every year the flooding gives the media and the rest of us something to talk about. the farms have rich soil because of the flooding. if the flooding could somehow be stopped the soil would not be a good.

Check out the Dutch with thier floating homes.
http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=995
Sitting on dry land but will rise with the water. Cal

As is so often the case, our friends to the South could learn a lesson from casting their eyes north. "Duff's Ditch II", anyone?

Of course, I blame global warming... oops, I mean climate change.

bleet: www.ohmynappyhair.com/preview/index.html

Just sayin, y'know.

BTW, do -you- have flood insurance?

Been there, done that. I could actually see The LaSalle River from my kitchen (especially in the spring). Logic says to build on high ground but if there isn't any around... If your fields are lush and rich because they are on a flood plain then flooding shouldn't be a surprise. To live elsewhere would make a hell of a commute. Besides, you know darn well that if you allow for the hundred year flood you will get a thousand year flood. Ma nature just works that way.

Not sure they're going to get so much rain. Heaviest weather seems to be going north - if you live south of Brandon - batten down - heavy rain coming your way. Friend of mine has put the nexrad radar up on his website: http://tinyurl.com/cs2sww and he says he'll leave it up for the day as nothing is happening locally. Bigger risk appears to upper RRV, which, of course winds up in Fargo...

Perched high above the flood plain on the Riding Mountain escarpment we won't need to worry about flooding in this part of Manitoba. However, if there is any overland flooding in the RR valley, I fully expect Suzuki to show up and gravely pronounce it all as the result of global warming.

[ The Cree called it Miscousipi, Red Water River, and warned early settlers of its hidden capacity for destruction. The river flooded in 1826, forcing the complete evacuation of the 10-year-old Red River colony. But most settlers refused to give up. Winnipeg, the city they built on the Red River's banks, has braved disaster again and again – in 1950, 1966, 1979, and again, dramatically, in 1997.]CBC

i think i can see my parents house in that pic of Brunkild! :D

i lived in Domain which was *just* inside the dyke. we got evacuated in 1997 but luckily the town stayed dry.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Domain,+Macdonald,+Division+No.+10,+Manitoba,+Canada&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.41771,79.101563&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTAI9QIdBfwy-g&split=0&ll=49.59736,-97.447357&spn=0.246113,0.617981&z=11&iwloc=addr

Noah!!!!

yes Lord?

build you an ark

BUT, But, but!!!!

how long can you tread water?????:-))))

Some areas immediately west and south of Brandon will get upwards of 2.5 inches of rain in the next 2 hours...

http://tinyurl.com/cs2sww

Helped evacuate a Farm just outside the dike at Domain - a Dairy Farm.

In 1997, that is.

As flat as it is in south and north Dakota the continental divide is very apparent. The southern most source of the Red River is Lake Traverse. It borders NE South Dakota and Minnesota. The water flows north out of that lake to the red river and then on to hudson bay. There is a lake 2 miles south of Lake traverse (Big Stone Lake) and it empties to the south through the Minnesota river to the Mississippi river and down to the golf of Mexico. There is now flood protection between these to lakes; but back in the early sixties my father said you could see the water seperate and flow both directions when it flooded in the spring.

Thunder,lightning and steady rain in Minnedosa area. Everything here drains into the Assiniboine and then the Red.

Flash flood warnings now up for area 75 miles WSW of Fargo, area bounded by Jamestown-Ashley-Lisbon, N.D.

http://tinyurl.com/cs2sww

The Assiniboine should be OK because of the Portage diversion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_Diversion

Good time to ask Garry Doer how those bridges over the floodway are coming......

BTW -
If we get a 97 style flood here Selkirk is screwed.

The water that comes out of the floodway nails Selkirk ......

OMMAG, the South perimeter bridge should be fixed in another month. (We hope)

"Good time to ask Garry Doer how those bridges over the floodway are coming......"

Actually I spoke with someone that is doing some of the floodway work. What he told me is the floodway IS ready for a one in 700 year flood. Some of the bridges were not upgraded due to funding, but the bridge decks can be removed if needed, and it would be just as good as upgraded bridges only they're not usable.

This person also stated with the new "stimulus package" the bridges may indeed be upgraded. I don't know which bridges they are.