Dear God;

Looks like someone, (John the De-Baptist?) could make a killing here. 10,000 debaptism certificates and x dollars a piece? Who says capitalism is dead?

sad.

This is terrific. It only gives credibility to Baptism.

I thought atheists were supposed to be smart.

Wonder if it could be tweaked so those that get deprogrammed from The Global Church of Climate Scientology want proof they are no longer Believers.

I don't know if it's a mass attack of mental illness, or just sheer stupidity!

De-baptism! Now I MUST have heard everything, until the next lunatic action!

As an affirmed atheist, I would NEVER ask to be de-baptized. I mean, suppose I'm WRONG! ;-)

Being a conservative, I never felt the need to ask the government for a form to renounce the baptism.

Just went right ahead and ignored the whole process.

Hula hoops were big when I was a kid.

Christ Almighty!

where do I apply to get de-circumcised?

Shouldn't that be a Form 27B-stroke-6?

Bad news sabre0...........

These nutbars are becoming as big a pain in the ass as the intrusive idiots who take every opportunity to inject their religious beliefs into any conversation. All they are managing to do is demonstrate their lack of conviction in their beliefs (non-beliefs?). Any time someone has to make a spectacle of themselves (look at me! look at me! I'm different!)in order to get their views recognized it is a sure sign of their lack of a core belief in the views they espouse so loudly.

*
"The fact that people are willing to pay for the parchments
shows how seriously they are taking them."

or, more to the point... how gullible they are. what's it
good for anyway... besides pissing off granny.

this is the "pet rock" of 2009.

*

"where do I apply to get de-circumcised?"

lol

man o' man but i HATE "athiests".

I think if they truly want to be de-baptized they should be dipped in mud then placed in a coffin.

Baptism means leaving a sinful state of death behind and embarking on a clean life. One is baptized from death to life and is cleansed by the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross and his resurrection.

Yawn

This serves to show how utterly childish and hate-filled some people can be. Are there any adults left in Great Britain?

I'd pay at least 25 cents for a parchment stating that I renounce Gaia. OTOH, I could just run something up on Photoshop and print it on my computer for about the same price, though I have no idea how I could persuade anyone to look at it. I wonder if Chapters sells blank parchment.
There must be a market for 'I renounce -----' bumper stickers. I hope some entrepreneur looks into it.

These people are putting themselves in great peril. Once de-baptised, they will revert to having the "original sin" back on their souls. You know, the one that the skank Eve committed by cozying up to the snake and eating an apple. And 'skank' is not too harsh a word since it is she who had us all tossed our of the garden of eden ... remember that???

That means that when they die, they will have spend all eternity in a place called Limbo. Although, if they die with a lot of other sins on their soul, the Limbo reservation will be down graded to Hell.

I suppose it might said that and apple a day keeps heaven away.

At least that's how this catholic atheist understands it.

Lastly, there are almost no atheists in any prisons in the USA. They aren't stupid enough for that.

A few upsides to being atheist.

1. You get to sleep in on Sunday
2. You get to live a relatively guilt free life
3. You save 10% of you dough
4. You get to read a variety of books
5. You get to be more realistic about how we all got here
6. You don't have live in fear of spending all eternity in hell burning

Please list the upsides of believing that there is a magical mystical almighty being who created the entire universe as a back-drop for ..... us!

And what the hell has he got against Africa?

All that aside, I do believe in Christian values but only because they make sense. You know ... be nice, don't kill, don't steal etc ... but only IF you can leave out the supernatural stuff.

:0)

i refute the Pelagian heresy and i feel the symbolism of a baptism is a harmless endearing highly stylized cult ritual...

OK. Here we go.

From this misinformed article:

"De-baptism organisers say the initiative is a response to what they see as increasing stridency from churches -- the latest last week when Pope Benedict XVI stirred global controversy on a trip to AIDS-ravaged Africa by saying condom use could further spread of the disease."

The Pope's actually correct. In areas hard hit by AIDS the spread of condoms promotes promiscuity because many people believe that using them makes everything safe. Condoms distributed in Africa, especially in rural areas, are often unreliable.

A condom in New York, for instance, is not the same thing as a condom twenty kilometres inside the African bush. Some of them sit in containers in a port, under the sun, for two or three months. By the time they're brought out on bicycles and passed out in the bush, many are no longer effective because latex is heat-sensitive. The people wearing them, however, are told, "Put these on, and you’ll be safe."

Promoting more responsible sexual behavior is the most effective anti-AIDS strategy, and it's been proven in Uganda where the ABC program has been in effect for some time: Abstinence, Be faithful, use Condoms.

In 1991, Uganda's HIV prevalence peaked at about 15% (30% among pregnant women in urban areas). After the ABC program was introduced, its prevalence turned sharply downward and reached 5% (14% for pregnant urban women) by 2001.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/5/gr060501.html

It IS possible for people to change their mentality and their behaviours when the facts are put before them. Anyone who thinks that condoms (which have a failure rate of 20% for pregnancy when used "properly" -- and a much greater failure rate for S*xually Transmitted Diseases which can be contracted 365 days of the year) are the answer to the spread of HIV/AIDS obviously hasn't done their homework.

And, BTW, there was barely any controversy in Africa itself. The "controversy" was stirred up not by Pope Benedict but by the international press. Go figure.

More room upstairs for the rest of us. It may start to get a bit crowded down below, though.

Who's rejecting reality? It seems these atheists want to pretend an historic event in their lives never occurred, to toss it in the memory hole and be done with it.

Don't like that it happened, fine, reject it and move on. If you must, make a public statement renouncing the 'faith' you think was somehow foisted upon you & affirm what you do believe.

Saying you want to undue or otherwise strike the record of having gone through some religious rite as a child just seems silly.

Just about as silly as willingly going through with some relgious rite.

Damn.

Now I almost want to go get baptized, just so I can turn around and get a certificate of De-Baptism.

Seems like a hassle, though. And the idea of being washed by a "celibate" man who spends a lot of private time with altar boys ... somehow it just doesn't hold much appeal for me.

Just about as silly as willingly going through with some relgious rite.

But I thought atheists were supposed to be so much more sophisticated & intelligent than us religious rubes.

At least that's what I usually hear (not specifically referring to you here, AtlanticJim, I don't know your view on the subject).

To Saber0 and Atlanticjim!

http://www.circlist.com/considering/recircumcision.html

If you want to be de-baptized I'm your man.
For a mere $350. I will rub your forehead with a Shamwow towel (you know the Germans make good stuff) and yell, Out, Out damn spot at the top of my lungs. If you respond in the next twenty minutes, I can't do this all day folks,I will include your wife for only $100. That's a $700. value for only $450.

Does anyone else see the logical contradiction here? Atheists are willing to pay money to perform a reverse-ritual. But wait, they don't believe the original ritual held any meaning, so why even bother performing a reverse-ritual? Performing a reverse-ritual implies that the original ritual had some meaning or purpose.

Excellent.

This will make their assimilation into islam much easier in the next year or two.

mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm

"But wait, they don't believe the original ritual held any meaning, so why even bother performing a reverse-ritual"

Of course it had meaning - it was a ritualistic, superstitious initiation ceremony performed on an innocent child. How the hell could that NOT have meaning?

Presumably, you don't believe in Allah, right? But if some Muslims made off with your child and indoctrinated him into their religion, would that have some meaning for you?

Why is it that Christians seem to be completely unable to use their brains when contemplating religion or irreligious? I've met SO many smart people whose minds just completely shut off as soon as religion comes up as a topic, and they start spewing the kind of nonsense that you just did. No logic, no rational basis, no facts. Just spurious accusations, ludicrous conclusions, and blind belief. I don't get why any sane, intelligent human being would act in such a manner ...

My bumper sticker reads:

Jeez if you love, honkus!

Momar-1

In answer to your question - what are the benefits of being a Christian.

1. The most powerful being in the entire universe is your Father and you are dearly loved by him.

2. Sins are forgiven and we too live guilt free - "There is no condemnation for those who believe in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1)

3. What is the price of five sparrows—two copper coins*? Yet God does not forget a single one of them.  And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows.
 “I tell you the truth, everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, the Son of Man* will also acknowledge in the presence of God’s angels.  But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God’s angels. (Lk 12:6-10).

4. Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. “You parents—if your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead?  Or if they ask for a fish, do you give them a snake? Of course not!  So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask him.
(Mt 7:7-11).

5. Hope, peace, joy, faith, comfort and Love.

6.  “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind.  When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away.  That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous,  throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Do you understand all these things?”. (Mt 13:47-51)

7. “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me.  If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it.  And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?* Is anything worth more than your soul?  For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds
(Mt 16:24-27).

8. “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.  So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
 “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf* is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
“What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. (Mt 18:3-7).

9. Security, answered prayer, grace...just to name a few.

Well it is good to see that people are using thier freedom to renounce thier faith or lack there of. No big deal to me. But if this genaration feels the smugness of thier self liberation I would like to ask them what are they doing now for the freedoms of thier future children?
Because in twenty to fifty years most of Europe's future genaration will have much of a choice now will they? And I think most here know of what I speak.

Can I order one as a gift and have it sent to the Reverend Wright with a tax receipt ?

"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives."

Except for amputees. God just really hates those poor bastards.

Anyway, he was asking for the benefits of Christianity, not a religious sermon. Of the 9 "points" you wrote, only number 5 would actually be a tangible benefit, and you could achieve the same things by being secular (as I do), or believing in Thor. Ergo it's not a benefit of Christianity.

Ditto for number 9, except that it's not even a tangible benefit. You could argue that it's a benefit of religion in general, but certainly not Christianity in particular, since it's been experienced by believer of every religion which has ever been made up. And it's not a tangible benefit because we know that it's a delusion - prayers are never answered, and false security isn't of benefit to anyone. People simply attribute happenstance to prayer. You could spend the next year praying to a pair of panties, and your prayers would be "answered" at roughly the same rate as now.

Try being a Christian, Alex. Then, you'll find out about all of the "benefits." They're out of this world, and I'm not joking ...

Try being a Scientologist, Batb. Then, you'll find out about all of the "benefits." They're out of this world, and I'm not joking ...

Rational reasons to believe in God.

There is an order to everything from the smallest atom to the largest galaxy. These laws apply everywhere and can be discovered by those who seek to learn them.

Everything man creates is subject to whim and error.

Therefore we did not create the universe of the laws that govern it.

Most everything in nature is regenerating and sustainable. All the plants and animals alive today are from life that has been passed on from time unknown.

Everything that man creates is subject to decay.

We did not create life, we only participate in a process established long before our existance on this planet. We manipulate it and manage it, but it was never our making.

Everything about the sustainablitiy of our lives, from our heart beating, the color of our hair, to what diseases we are prone to is written in a code our minds are only starting to decode, but our bodies have understood since we were a single cell.

We have never written a book as complex as this ever. We aren't obedient to most of the laws we do write. Yet our bodies obey perfectly everything that was written in our cells.

So some unseen entity, brought order to the smallest atom to the most distant star. It likes life, and seeks to make it self-sustainable and remarkably self-healing. It wrote the most intimate details of our lives so that we wouldn't have worry about the correct formula for breast milk, but just feed our children.

Science is but the study of the laws that govern the world and our lives. It did not create it. We did not create it. Call it what you will, from the beginning of time, we have called it God.

You may reject different religions, but to reject the existance of God is not rational. To try to find our more about Him is wisdom.

Of course it had meaning - it was a ritualistic, superstitious initiation ceremony performed on an innocent child

The incredulity you are seeing is based on the fact that most protestant Christians believe baptism is a symbol, a public declaration of ones faith in Jesus (or, for infant baptism, a recognition of the child as being a part of the covenant community). It is a symbol which does not itself either bestow salvation, grace or any other metaphysical attributes on the one receiving the baptism.

Cases of re-baptism do occur within the Church, but not because the first didn't take, but typically because a person comes to Christ as an adult and the first (usually infant) baptism was meaningless to them. The other case I can think of is when an individual is baptized originally into a "church" they believe is unscriptural (Roman Catholicism or Mormonism, for example).

However, re-baptisms are not intended to somehow undue what has been done; its just that we view that first one as an empty religious rite devoid of any true meaning.

Good post No-One. Get ready for the backlash and rude behaviour from the 'secure within themselves' athiests.

I've seen a growing tendency on this blog to bash Christians more and more. Remarks like, we don't need those Christians in the Conservative movement. Remarks like, we should appeal more to the progressive segment of society. It's only going to get worse. You and I both know that.

Whatever. When the progressives finally and totally throw God out of society they'll get something else to fill the void. The opposite of God.

Don't believe in God? Who cares. I do. You sew the wind, you reap the whirlwind.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster will wreak havoc upon ALL you unbelievers soon.
Ramen.

1. You get to sleep in on Sunday: I sleep in too, and go to mass at 11 am.
2. You get to live a relatively guilt free life: you mean like worrying about how my refrigerator is causing global warming?
3. You save 10% of you dough: for what, more cookies? Go on a diet fatso
4. You get to read a variety of books you mean like Boys 'n Barnyards and the Koran?
5. You get to be more realistic about how we all got here you mean like how your father is a toad and your mother is a tapir?
6. You don't have live in fear of spending all eternity in hell burning I don't spend any time fearing the fire of Hell, but say that again about one minute before you die, then I might believe you

and they start spewing the kind of nonsense that you just did.

Like defending atheism by accusing every/most/many/etc. Roman Catholic priests of being pederasts? (Especially when the ones you do mean were homosexuals and not pederasts.)

And, FYI, the child isn't "washed" in a baptism.

Momar-1:

The reason why there are few atheists in prison is because they can tell the parole board that they've found Jesus.

Next the atheists will be organizing Anti-Lent and Un-Easter.

The former will be celebrated by gluttonous binging on chocolate while the latter will be observed by rolling the tombstone from the grave to deposit the corpse.

This will be known by atheists as Death by Chocolate followed by gentle roasting over an open fire in Non-Hell.

A more moronic brood of vipers it would be hard to imagine.

Oh, oh God DENIERS!

And these people are the "ENLIGHTENED" ones.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

If this form becomes a requirement for a Government job, does that leave Quebec without a civil service?
(or is that the point?)

I'm *dying* to hear an explanation of how a grassroots, capitalist movement like the one linked in this post is somehow a threat to you Christians? There is no government organization trying to eliminate your religion here...there's no promotion of an alternative religion at the expense of yours. It's simply a story about people who have chosen to protest a church that they see as wrong-headed, using a wholly symbolic gesture. Does this sound like any other symbolic gestures undertaken on, say, last Saturday at about 8:30 PM?

Why are you so threatened?

What I meant, Alex, is that you can never experience the benefits of anything without becoming a participant. Asking what are the benefits of Christianity and then treating others' sincere answers with contempt, reminds me of pearls being offered to swine.

Your juvenile put downs and your disdain for people's heartfelt beliefs is no credit to you.