A Saskatoon judge acquitted David Ahenakew today, of hate crimes. Is this a victory for freedom of expression? CTV Star Phoenix
The damning comments:
"How do you get rid of a disease like that, that's going to take over, that's going to dominate?" Ahenakew responded. "The Jews damn near owned all of Germany prior to the war. That's how Hitler came in. He was going to make damn sure that the Jews didn't take over Germany or Europe."That's why he fried six million of those guys, you know. Jews would have owned the God-damned world."
My thoughts:
1. Ahenakew did not counsel violence against Jews in the present day, therefore he should be left alone.
2. His views are indefensible, laughable, and easily deconstructed in the open marketplace of ideas ... and that's where this battle should be fought.
3. Of concern though, is that the judge commented that with internet gaining prevalence, perhaps hate crimes should be re-examined; suggesting that hate can be spread via the net, and therefore may need to be regulated more. I find this reasoning disturbing.
4. The judge rationalized that since Ahenakew tried to avoid the damning interview, he wasn't really pushing his views ... therefore, not fomenting hate ... that they were private views. So, are your views expressed here, in the comments, private or public views?
What say you?
No double standard here.
a sentencing circle would have given him a couple of smokes
"3. Of concern though, is that the judges commented that with internet gaining prevalence, perhaps hate crimes should be re-examined; suggesting that hate can be spread via the net, and therefore may need to be regulated more."
It would be interesting to hear Ezra Levant comment on the road those judges are thinking of taking, regarding speech and thought control by HRC's on the internet.
Just replace the word "Jew" with "Muslim" or better yet, "Homosexual" and imagine the response.....
While I think Ahenakew represents one of the many problems within the aboriginal community (the inability to take responsibility for anything in their lives and to automatically blame others), I don't think he should have been charged. He should have and in the future be tagged as an igornant individual and he has a long way to go before he gains credibility. I only hope that the MSM has the guts to engage in this debate (but probably not).
The world is now waiting for Kinsella to start stalking this asshole hoping to get a picture of him in some washroom stall with his swastika pen at the ready.
Morons and fools like this idiot shouldn't be tried for hate speech, they should be mocked and scorned, made fun or, ridiculed and just laughed at.
At every and all opportunities. Put the bright light of ridicule on pond scum and it dries up and blows away.
Screw the political correctness that protects him because he's aboriginal. An asshole is an asshole, doesn't matter what their ethnic heritage is.
I find Ahenakew's views repulsive, but free speech allows that.
Yes, the judge's thoughts about regulating the internet is definitely a red flag: that would mean "censorship for thee but not for me". NO THANKS.
As for the judge's distinction between public and private... If one expresses an opinion in a public venue or medium, it should be self-evident that said opinion is, by definition, a "public" one.
It isn't the state's place to punish someone for being ignorant.
I think anything short of blatantly stating "X group should be killed (today)" should be left out of the courts.
Hansen and Suzuki strike me as more reasonable candidates for this more objective sort of "hate crimes" trial :P
Now if Ahenakew had been a lower middle class white kid......
I'd say its a victory for the soft racism of low expectations, myself. "Special Deal" Liberal politics in action. Anybody other than a First Nations poobah would have been boiled in oil.
If I had my way Ahenakew would never have been charged. He'd be able to print that on billboards and not be charged. But then if I had my way Jews (and everybody else) would be packing major heat and Dave the Doofus Ahenakew would sooooo polite around them...
Free men bow to no one.
As is becoming all too common, the judge's personal opinion is being substituted for learned, rational review. The issue of the internet is already covered under existing hate crime legislation, in fact, if not in statute, that being the sections concerned with distribution of materials that may incite violence based on hate that is tagged in the in the criminal code.
While judges have always wanted to make their court "their own", in the past this was based on a sense of jurisprudence, not ignorant ideology. Western civilization is increasingly feeling the the effects of the decline of its educational system since the '70s. Both Ahenakew and the judge demonstrate the deficiency, albeit from opposite positions.
I absolutely defend to the death Ahenakew's right to be a barbarously pig-ignorant moron and to express that fact, loudly and in public at all opportunities. That's how you keep an eye on these swine. I also defend (indeed, applaud) the State's right to strip him of the Order of Canada, since that honour was conferred by the State.
As for a double standard - yes, obviously, as the anti-Israeli protests and the State's reaction to them proves. It's very fashionable this century to hate Jews and to say filthy, low-minded things about Jews, and in this country fashion dictates policy.
Too bad they took his Order Of Canada away - that would've made a great polaroid...
The point we are missing, is that there are some (like this judge..) who wish to have the decision taken out of their hands by giving carte blanche to those who would censor anything they would deem as not being in the public interest.
In light of this, any excuse will do.
My feeling is that once you take away someone's right to say whatever they want to say you take away the public's ability to identify, as Fred said, the assholes amongst us. Regardless how offensive the words are they are just words, sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. It really is as simple as a child's rhyme and it would seem that the only ones ever hurt by words are groups and individuals with no self confidence or self esteem, the weakest of the weak, and those you can never fully protect.
"Ahenakew did not counsel..."
I'm also wondering when the various HRC's will kick into high gear and justify their pay cheques ?
Waiting.
Still waiting . . . .
What would happen if Mark Bourrie said what Ahenakew did? I'm thinking financial ruination would be the least of it.
Special deal Liberalism. No special deal for Mark, he's not the right colour.
If Ahenakew said something like:
"Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas." as reported by Geert Wilders this would be an incitement to violence.
If one were to suggest that 'group X are vile, low life money grubbing scumbags', then, while offensive, it may or may not have an objective element and thus falls under expressing an opinion.
If one or two of group X are indeed vile low life money grubbing scumbags, this in no way imputes the reputation of the rest of group X.
This is known in logic circles as leaping to a conclusion.
If one were to suggest that 'group X are vile, low life money grubbing scumbags, thus group X should be hung from the nearest lampstandard or available crane'; then the latter part of the statement is an incitement to violence, most likely attracting Criminal Code attention.
If one were to assert:
"Politicians are vile low life money grubbing scumbags."
there would likely be much agreement.
If one were to assert as Liberal MP Shawn Murphy once suggested the Brian Mulroney should have a noose wrapped about his neck and hung. "Hang him high, hang him high!" then this likely would attract Criminal Code intervention for those of us not protected by Parliamentary immunity.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"
"Get tough on crime, bring forth Brian Mulroney! Hang him high, hang Mulroney! Let's get this Mulroney before the courts as soon as possible and hang him high! We gotta get Mulroney, put a noose on his head, put a noose on his head. Get tough on crime."
As I read on Babble once, Ahenakew is in fact a victim. He has internalized the white-mans racism. No I didn't make that up.
Ahenakew is a loathsome slug, but he should be held up to the light of day so he can be scrutinized as the repulsive worm he is, not fined by a faceless group of bureaucrats that are themselves loathsome.
So, do minorities still have the right "not to be offended"? Can non-rapper ignorami start using the the "N" word again? Can people preach the old testament teachings on homosexuality and print the various passages of Leviticus in newspapers? Can people question how members of the religion of peace realy fit into the Canadian mosaic? Can doctors turn down gender reassignment operations?
Can pub owners kick dopers out of their doorways? Or, can we just shit on Jews when we feel like it? This is so confusing!
Ahenakew's version of history is clearly @#%$'d up however people are allowed to think what they like. If someone asks you what you think and you tell them, how can you be charged with a crime for that? If a person is out spreading a hateful message and trying to influence others to think hateful thoughts, that may be a different story.
We really need to give more thought into what can be considered a hate message as we now see certain groups are using the Human Rights Commissions as their way of preventing the public from hearing the truth.
I am sure that if he had been a white Christian pastor criticising gays they would have been just as understanding of his free speech rights.That said - the decision is a good one.
He has every right to be an ignorant bigoted cretin with the intellectual capacity of a frying pan.
I have every right to call him that , unless frying pans everywhere now have hurt feelings!
Justice is blind - our judges are not. I agree with Western Canadian. I think that most judges in Canada have an agenda and that they follow that agenda when making their decisions.
This decision has a pink hue, IMO.
The restaurant owner was pushed through the human rights commission and Ahenakew went through the civil court system. That is why one was found guilty and one wasn't. Ahenakew was giving his interpretation of history. He is totally wrong about it but still it's just his interpretation. He is not saying we need to go and fry milliions of jews today. He will be shunned and marginalized in society for his remarks, that will be his punishment.
Ahenekew's views are disgusting, and he showed his lack of sense when he opened his mouth about them, but this should just be allowed to lie. There are more immediate concerns than this.
Ahenakew may be a total nutter but it remains a disgrace that he was ever charged in the first place. It would have been more productive to let others to dispute his views, since most people would have been turned off by them. The whole thing would have died a natural death.
The judge in question made a reasonable decision on this but was off the mark concerning his comments about the internet.
The Indian was,is,and will continue to be,completely ignorant of history.That said,hold him up to public opinion.Unfortunately,here in Canuckistan,he is a protected group.He can say and do whatever he wants,and we will be racist for trying to point this out.
"The judge rationalized that since Ahenakew tried to avoid the damning interview, he wasn't really pushing his views ... therefore, not fomenting hate ... that they were private views."
Right decision. Wrong, wrong, wrong reason.
Someone, anyone, please file a HRC complaint against him. It would expose the HRCs to more public scrutiny, and it would cost him the one thing most precious to him: money.
How - exactly - does one "file a HRC complaint" ?
Perhaps a flood of specious complaints - the doberman pinscher should be renamed the doberperson pinscher - would reveal the hypocrisy of the whole institution.
I thought Indians were 'victims of genocide.' For dead people, they sure are noisy.
And congratulations to the mainstream media for reprinting A's 'hateful' remarks regularly for the last 6 years. Oddly enough, at no time did anyone become so filled with 'hate' over these toxic words that they were commit an actual crime...
But let's not dwell on such trivialities as _actual_ crimes. How un-nuanced! Instead, let's celebrate the fact that the System works. Hoorah!
"Perhaps a flood of specious complaints - the doberman pinscher should be renamed the doberperson pinscher - would reveal the hypocrisy of the whole institution."
There's a whole slew of these sexist words, Peter. The Oxford and Webster's Dictionaries are practically training volumes for Sexism and should be banned! At the very least, they should be removed from all schools in order to help the students grow up MOOT-free*
InfantryMAN, hangMAN, doorMAN, seaMAN - the list of *MOOTs (Male-Oriented Oppressive Terms) is endless!
could some one please git Warnut Kan'tsella in here to pontificate how we should view this judge's decision
No victory here!
- The subject is an Indian (protected species)
- Jews are fair game (even in the "politest" circles during this new 1930s-style resurgence of anti-semitism)
Only clear direct incitement to violence should be unlawful. Of that, he is clearly innocent, just as he was innocent of any understanding of history or humanity and innocent of teatotalsim.
The only victory I'd acknowledge would have been the unceremonious tossing of this case at the outset.
What's this damn _____ on about now? Is he saying the ______ are behind the _______ because as far as I'm concerned, this country would be better off if the ________ had never come here, they are almost as bad as the _________ and the _______ not to mention the __________ and the Christian white men.
Judges are residents of Mars.......
Oh Good.
Now, Big Chief Frythejews will sue to get his Order Of Canada medal back (plus expenses and damages ) since it was taken from him by racist haters who have no legal grounds to stand on for their racist discrimination.
*
"This is fuzzy-bunny politically-correct Canuckistan. You can turn babies into popsicles
and still be a victim... if you have the right "cultural credentials"."
*
Our entire judicial system is from Mars if you ask me - there certainly doesn't seem to be any concern with serving human beings.
Witness the recent release, after four years in stir, of a man convicted of a the planned gang-swarming and murder of a man found walking in the Stanley Park "stroll" area. Here we see political correctness disappearing up its own ass as always, with the penal system having to release the murderer as early as possible (I almost wrote "decently possible" but that's obscenely wrong) even though this was obviously a planned hate crime against a member of a particular group. Oh, the hand-wringing that must have gone on at the parole Board!
If I may stray even a little further off topic, what the media and the judiciary never seem to notice is that, although the murder victim was in fact gay, he might have been any male human being who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, since gay men are not identifiable as such by appearance alone. It might have been me or my brother getting his head bashed in with golf clubs and baseball bats. The issue is simply this, once you get past the spent all of four years atoning for it.
The hell with "hate crime": what interests me is CRIME, and how we as a society punish it. Why put a clown like Ahenakew in court AT ALL, when cold-blooded premeditating murderers are doing four years?
I love everybody though some less than others!
At least I can be happy that it is impossible to foment hate against me. I'm a white heterosexual male of European ancestry and therefore have no standing.
Yeah, but you're probably a _______________.
I think that cold be the new role of white people who do something useful with their lives going forward: hate targets. Leftards, you can hate us all you want - just kindly don't send me a bomb or shoot me or my family like you know you want to, thanks in advance.
up until now only white's were racist! called this every time we asked where the money went.now we know racism is present in ALL color's. ahenakew has destroyed this white race myth for ever, no matter how the left tries to spin it. thank you sir.
Matthew wrote: "Too bad they took his Order Of Canada away...." and I have to agree; Ahenakew is at least as deserving of the "honour" as Henry Morgentaler.
Lying Jackal has uh... left the CJC
Sources reveal Non-Disclosure Agreement in place. Departure has nothing to do with Jackals Jihad against 5feetOfFury we assure you. Really we mean that.
http://tinyurl.com/d8j4mq
Who the hell does this judge think he is, what the heck does the internet have to do with this case. Why is this appointed judge pontificating on the internet at all, why is he musing about censoring peoples right to free expression. It seems that Liberals and leftoids in general are terrified by the freedoms the internet provides. Canadians being able to communicate with one another, without the Trudeauvian filter of the MSM, seems to be a scary proposition for the cultists who would like to control everything Canadians say and think.