How's That Restorative Justice Working For You?

" If convicted, Rattray will receive a life sentence."
Like hell he will.

Maybe it's time to ask those folks in Iowa, what's going on here?

Sad and disgustingly typical Canadian liberal 'justice'.

I believe punishment should take precedence over rehabilitation. I want people who let their kids freeze to death punished, not rehabilitated. I want people who murder, rape, rob and steal punished not rehabilitated. Finally, I want terrorists and people who commit treason killed not rehabilitated.

The death penalty imposed on people of Rattray's ilk would be more appropriate than the death penalty our justice system inversely imposes upon his victims.
Dead is forever...a life sentence under present day Canadian law is a joke.

Yay! Liberal Law! Charter of Rights and Freedoms!
Even if convicted, he'll be out again soon!

Parks sounds as though she might have been a little bit of a moonbat herself. But many moonbats don't deserve to die.

Just remember folks, Bob Rae smirks when he sees you are mad at what he and his Leftist pals want to do..they do not care for you nor your ideas, and will remain firm in their convictions no matter how high the body count.

Bob Rae, Bill Graham, Irwin Cotler etc..all live in gated, guarded communities..they will never face the likes of this man whom their ideals have helped keep on our streets.

For many, liberal 'justice' policy is a death sentence.

Just posted on the newspaper's site:

Having lived in Sudbury from 1989-94, this story hits home with me. Am I mistaken to surmise that much of this story is devoted to provide a moral equivalency about the upbringing of the alleged murderer? An innocent woman has been brutally murdered and you're going to great lengths to portray the perpetrator as a victim too. Has this become the state of journalism in Canada today?

There is a lot of recidivism here.

What is the threshold for being labelled a dangerous offender?

I am old enough to remember the taking out of our "justice system" of Capital Punishment, it was promised at the time that murder in the first degree would put a convicted felon in prison for "life". Lies, never happned, "faint hope" allows autmatic parole hearings, multiple murders, felonious assults result in "concurrent sentances" or freebies as weather 12 murders or 1 the sentance is the same, lets not forget the 2 for 1 so time in remand is a real deal, gotta get the little sociopaths back on the street. Last but not least the coddling of young offenders no matter how heinous the crime.
To summarize we need a "majority Conservative" IMHO the changes PM Harpers government have tried to make have been sensible and well thought out, they have been stifled and sidetracked by the "hug a thug Liberals" Who in the time of Trudeau created this mess with their namby-pamby approach to convicted felons, the country club prisions for murderers, more cement block less wall to wall carpet says this indignant taxpayer, as at William Head on Vancouver Island. I won't more than touch on "the farmer Bob gun control" which makes it very difficult for ordinary citizens to own and use firearms, while it does nothing to curb "real crime" example any big city in Canada Vancouver is a prime example at the moment. While we are ramping up to spend a BILLION on "security" on a two week "party" for "elite amature" athletes the streets are not safe. there are not enough police, result, the "law of the jungle applies" Thanks Mr Trudeau and your still misguided Liberals, wake up people you get the Government you deserve. Vote Conservative!
Cheers Bubba

There are two expressions the powers-that-be are going to learn if they don't get this madness under control: 1) Civil disobedience and 2) vigilante justice.

According to the Left's mindset this man is a victim. Perhaps he is a victim of a bad childhood or of society, but the point is that he is a victim. When it comes to the real victim, the Left really does not care if we judge them by their words, actions and behaviour.

Also receiving a life sentence and serving it are not the same thing under our liberal laws. I find no evidence of any government seriously wanting to restore true justice, otherwise we would be allowed a referendum on capital punishment.

I was fifteen when a friend of mine was stabbed to death.His assailant received a five year sentence for manslaughter.I was stunned to see him sauntering down the street carefree,just two and a half years later.

Life Sentence ?

Ya right.

Here in BC they have just figured out that the judges give out less time for each instance of multiple offenders, kinda of like a reward.

"So Mr Smith, last time you were before me, for your 38th conviction of B&E, I gave you three months. Well this time I am going to give you two months. Take that you scoundrel !"

Life sentence, eh? How many times do scum caught with illegal firearms not serve the mandatory five years for possessing an illegal firearm?

Bah.

I would rather he meet a woman with a .38 and knew how to empty it with alarcity and accuracy.

Edward Teach

Here a couple of years ago I made a statement that I thought a little vigilante justice may not be a bad thing. It would wake the hell up our "justice" system and if directed towards them and our elected politicians there would be some action, fast, VERY FAST. When you don't face up to something and let it slide it eventually comes back to bite you, so let it be with our political and judicial hierarchy in this case.

Aw, come off it guys! This degenerate, sick, twisted psychopath is the real victim here.

He's just misundertood and is the way he is cause of everyone else. He probably had bad self esteem even!

When the "system" lets a creep out of prison and they offend again, the leftard who let them out should hang with them for the crime.

I strongly object to the statements posted on this board. Jail time for violent offenses? Nonsense. We should rehabilitate violent offenders by incarcerating them for a short period of time and then releasing them into the world with no life skills, job training, or means of integrating into society. There's your solution.

I say the treatment this Rattray received was spot-on: the result of a successful liberal plan to keep people out of prisons at all cost, and in no way the result of prisons being overcrowded by drug offenders and other non-violent criminals.

Society didn't conspire to give Rattray a hard time, so he can hardly be a victim of society. The question is, was he a victim of Ms.Parks? If not, then he deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with trying to rehabilitate criminals, and I don't see the point in being unnecessarily punitive to criminals, but there needs to be an awareness that there are certain criminals who can not be rehabilitated and that are too dangerous to return to society.

I am willing to accept that lots of people can make mistakes in their life, but when you have someone who is a repeat violent or sexual offender who has committed very serious crimes we have to be aware that nothing we do will ever stop these people from committing another crime.

Its one thing to be lenient on someone who committed statutory rape or who got drunk and ended up in a fist fight, it is another thing entirely to allow a true predator walk the streets and continue to victimize people over and over again.

Just remember: Every criminal paroled is a NEW CUSTOMER for some social worker. Think of it as STIMULOUS.

Damn, I may have to change my name.

How does Dale Earnhardt Jr. sound ?
,

I concur with others here, this poor guy is just a victim, I mean childhood abuse is an automatic get out of jail card...*snort* He won't do any sort of 'life' and he will walk the streets again. He will kill again if given the chance. Oh but we're so progressive eh?

AND at the risk of being nailed, what the hell was Ms. Parks thinking? Did this guy not set off her warning flags? Was she that deluded that any scruff is worth taking home?
I sincerely offer my condolences for this woman's loved ones and mad as hell that her murderer was roaming free to commit this heinous crime, but not surprised, I believe that we also have responsibility to keep ourselves safe. He should be responsible for his actions despite what the childhood issues were, so is she responsible for not putting herself in this situation. Bad choices all around.

AS an adult he has/had a choice to better himself or stay mired in criminal shit seriously assaulting the most vulnerable ( I mean a Nun, a child? come on!) to the point of this woman's unfortunate murder.
He's going to be free again one day and it absolutely sickens me.
On and on Canadians will be murdered, harmed, maimed, and ignored by our 'do gooder pro-convict' justice system.

Our school systems—heck, far too many moonbat families with lenient parents—are farm teams for Canada's justice system. Punishment for vile behavior? Not on your life. One is expected to be nicer to the miscreants: the more "difficult" their lives or the more heinous their behaviour, the nicer one's supposed to be.

In the public school system, rules—from the myriad "Behaviour Codes" around there these days—are rarely enforced with any effectiveness. Indeed, many are altogether waived, especially if the kid really NEEDS consequences. (Some Education Acts actually stipulate that special ed. students be exempt from the mandated consequences. This is absolutely ludicrous: these kids need double consequences to make up for the complete lack of structure and expectations in their usually chaotic home lives.)

Our kids have no fear of authority these days. What authority? As a result, behaviour goes from bad to worse. Respect for others? Nope. Do what I want? You bet. If things get bad enough, a social worker gets involved: almost the kiss of death, I’d say. These bleeding hearts seem to have empathy only for the perpetrators of the horrendous behaviour. The victims? They seem to disappear from the equation. (After a particularly horrendous display of ego and disrespect toward a supply teacher in my class, I gave the miscreant—a student to whom I was very close—a most deserved and logical consequence. The social worker was horrified that part of the consequence was unpleasant for the student: “That was precisely the idea,” I said. She was horrified again. The student wasn’t and quite readily accepted the consequence.)

Oh, oh Canada.

Someone needs to sue. Launch a class action against the people accountable - the politicans. Threaten their cushy existences with financial penalties or jail terms and things will change.

Sue? Forget it! Instead let's borrow Madame Guillotine from the French (We know they're not going to be making use of her services anytime soon)!

"The victims? They seem to disappear from the equation."

LOOKOUT

Victim's don't disappear from the equation, you are just looking on the wrong side of the equality sign.

Think of "victims" as currency. Similar to the financial sector, like the banks, social workers and their ilk require a constant flow of victims, like money.

Social workers, parole boards, judges have been using "bail"-outs for a long time to stimulate their economy.

I know the comment I am about to make will be unpopular on this board. For the most part, I am a conservative. However, when it comes to some things I tend to lean a little liberal. I do not think one party has all the answers.

Restorative Justice works with youth and only youth who are not sociopaths or have ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) or CD (Conduct Disorder) both have since been renamed with "softer titles" but I forget what the new names are. Many youths who get into trouble for the first time are "acting out" and do not have the life skills or ability to communicate what is wrong with them. Restorative Justice in these cases seek to give youth the skills and help they need to deal with the unfairness in life in a positive way. There have been some excellent results and these youth are not seen again in the justice system after they successfully complete a restorative program. That being said, Restorative Justice for persons of any age with lengthly criminal records or severe disorders does not work and will actually make the person a better criminal. These people need to be in prison period.

BTW - a very large percentage of youth in the criminal justice system have varying degrees of fetal alcohol syndrome - FAS. Which is essentially brain damage from alcohol and drug use during pregnancy. Most are undiagnosed - they need to be in group homes.

Did not notice an earlier post by NOone. Seems I need a new nicK - I have not posted for a while. However, I share the same view as the other NOone. Perhaps I will use no-name instead.

Indiana, isn't it the perpetrators who get all the attention, as "clients", versus the victims? That was my point.

no-one, I agree with much of what you say. However, if the "young offenders" were held to account MUCH earlier on--teachers are now, effectively, DENIED that opportunity--there would be far fewer hard core cases later on.

But, Indianas's correct, I think: the hard core cases provide employment for the government paid "professionals" who like to keep their client base robust.

What a mess.

some people need the shit beat out of them, at least a few times, to straighten them out..preferably when theyre younger.

no-one:

On the one hand, I'd like to see this guy put down. On the other, I agree with you on the young offenders act.

Many years ago, before the current youth justice rules, a 16 year old friend of mine got into some trouble. He was with some older guys, who stole a car, then burned it. He was the only one caught, and refused to name the others involved, for obvious health reasons. He was sentenced to SIX YEARS, in Dorchester, with the worst of the worst. He served over two years of that sentence. I don't think that was a fair punishment.

There are many people within the justice system that can't seem to recognize the difference between stealing a car, and molesting a child. To them, it's just a numbers game. I don't like thieves very much, but they really are everywhere. The justice systems seems to be as apathetic about sexual deviants as I am about petty thieves.

right on reg dunlop...

first i raise my voice..if that don't work then i raise my fist...

but it's gonna take a lifetime to reverse the damage done to society by the wrongheadedness of this faux liberalism that infects society...

Americans faced the same thing 18 or so years ago. Changing the Justice Industry is a hopeless endeavor. We Canadians expect Big Momma Gubment to do everything for us. When it is proven that Big Momma can't do the job, we hold rallies and burn candles.
The Americans, on the other hand, lobbied State Government for concealed carry laws. It started with Orlando Florida. The Government wanted Hollywood theme parks but they had the highest incidence of rape in the country. The people used this as a lever to get a law passed.
In BC the Government wants the Olympic Games. I wonder!

Lots of people screaming for "punishment" here. You want to trust a government bureaucracy to mete out punishment properly? Fairly? Justly? You're freakin' crazy. Bureaucracies don't do that. They can't. All they can do is grow and consume money.

One person in this sorry tale was correctly positioned to mete out just punishment. Kerrianne Parks.

Capital punishment at the hands of the victim. That and no other, else we live in danger of lazy public employees following the path of least resistance.

the only bleeding heart i see is ms park's: twice over as i see it ...she was a sort of 'social justice activist' and a true believer in the hugs and kisses treatment of the 'troubled'......i'd bet this murderer knew she was a pigeon when he met her.....so, in a sense her ignorance...her llliberal ignorance of evil and her llliberal belief in 'dialogue' and 'hugs' led to her demise..

sad of course...but this is where llliberal airy fairy nonsense has led us...and will become much worse if we don't put a curb bit on society....establish some hard and fast ground rules as it were...

I think we need a law here that rewards people who bring f@#!#!#s like Rattray down.

One can only hope that he gets sent into genpop and the CO's let the psycho's have him.

I wonder what kind of sentence his parents recieved for abuse to Mr Rattray and the reason he was in and out of foster care was probably because social services spent so much time tring to put him back with his birth parents.I am a foster parent and became sick with the system that takes these kids from a bad situation and with in weeks are trying to put them back into it so the kids can be with a mom or dad that keep on abuseing them,only to have social services pulling the kids again with in weeks because of more abuse.The kids never find stability in their lives because of this bullsh#t policy.Social services ties the hands of the foster family and does not allow any dicipline in the foster home towards the foster child.these kids learn this very fast and that is why they are constantly moved from home to home.They learn under the social services program that the one way to get attention is to act out with anger so they grow up with this kind of mantality.
The one way to rehabilatate people so that they dont commit crime later in life is to start when they are in grade school and when they are young give them dicipline bring back the strap and teach them that there are conseqences for their actions. If a child lites your couch on fire you dont give him a hug for it.

dp:
I am sorry to hear about your friend - much too harsh a penalty in my opinion.

I agree with you completely, there is a huge difference between a petty thief and sexual -violent predators. I do not understand why blatant horrid crimes are given such light penalties - it is simply wrong.

The difficulty lies in predicting who can be helped and who can not or who wants help for that matter. It seems to depend on how smart of a lawyer one ends up with.

At least with youth, there is some chance to make corrections before it is too late. Often those with FAS are used by others to take the fall or commit crimes because of their cognitive deficits - they so want be accepted by peers too because they know they are different. Also, they are unable to understand consequences and will do the same stupid thing over and over again and are much more likely to get caught. It is very sad. Most look perfectly normal and have excellent verbal skills, but can not retain much information depending on when the damage occurred during pregnancy.

[quote]Restorative Justice in these cases seek to give youth the skills and help they need to deal with the unfairness in life in a positive way.[/quote] No-One

I agree with that statement, but it begs for a deeper understanding by everyone in society if they want to be successful

The "unfairness in Life" is much more than a passing mouthful. The youth are pampered with fairness in our schools (no red ink)... Political Correctness... and nicely feely stuff.
It's hard to blame just the children when the majority of University Grads are not prepared for the real world and get flat-lined for reasons they don't understand. Those that see fairness through a distorted lens go through life in constant crises.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR, get over it!

trucman: "Social services ties the hands of the foster family and does not allow any dicipline in the foster home towards the foster child.these kids learn this very fast and that is why they are constantly moved from home to home.They learn under the social services program that the one way to get attention is to act out with anger so they grow up with this kind of mantality.

"The one way to rehabilatate people so that they dont commit crime later in life is to start when they are in grade school [preferably, much earlier] and when they are young give them dicipline, bring back the strap and teach them that there are conseqences for their actions. If a child lites your couch on fire you dont give him a hug for it."

That's about it, trucman. Substitute “schools” for “social services”: the parallels are about the same. E.g., Bring a weapon to school, threaten another student, but, because one's a viz. min. special ed. student, no disciplinary action is taken. The weapon? The parent's invited to pick it up at the school. It’s no wonder that so many foster parents and teachers—some of the best of both—are getting out and so many kids are out of control.

The time to discipline kids is when they’re very young. The sooner, the much less they’ll need. Once they get the picture that behaving is much more pleasant than not—no unpleasant consequences, as well as happy relationships with those around them—most will follow suit. (Among other means, I believe in spanking: the flat of the hand on the bottom, once or twice. My children received no more than three spankings: then, if they deserved one, a warning was enough for them to cease and desist.) My kids were well behaved and polite. They knew that they’d be disciplined—reasonably—for not behaving and they exercised SELF-CONTROL accordingly. My kids were a pleasure to have around. Parents refusing to discipline, and places like schools and social services not ALLOWING it, has produced a precipitous and dangerous decline in children’s ability to exercise self-control.

Think: kids in schools, on public transit, in the malls, out on the street, in cars, etc. The foul language, the loud, inconsiderate “conversation”, the pushing and shoving, the total lack of respect for the feelings and comfort of those around them, including very much the adults: authority is neither acknowledged nor honoured (that has to be TAUGHT and we're not doing it), etc. Our “adult toddler” hippies, who now run our country—into the ground—are bringing up a generation of barbarians. (This started decades ago and the Rattrays are a part of it. Let’s remember, too, that he’s an extreme case—we have far more of these today. Many are beyond rehabilitation: in those cases, PROTECTION of the rest of us should be the public strategy. Is it? NO.)

Even in “good schools”, the self-regard and sense of entitlement among our youth is palpable. What happens when generations of kids are taught that they’re the centre of the universe and no one will disabuse them of this deceit? Bad things, really bad things are what happens.

Every toddler thinks he/she is the centre of the universe. Good parents or caregivers teach the child, via discipline (not meant to be pleasant) that he/she is not—sorry!—the centre of the universe. This child then learns self-control and, later, EMPATHY for others. These two attributes are seriously missing from a critical mass of people these days. Is it any wonder that we have the Madoffs and Obamas, both products of the “You are the centre of the universe” and, in Obama’s case, affirmative action, ways of thinking? Is it any wonder that their fellow citizens, raised the same way, fall for style over substance?

Kyrie eleison.

P.S. The schools and social services, for not protecting our children from themselves, should actually be charged with neglect and abuse. What a scandal.

no-one;

I agree that FAS is the epidemic that's most likely to destroy western society. It works silently, and in many cases, can't be detected. It only takes moderate alcohol use in the first trimester to turn a child into an habitual liar, and thief. Most of them have no physical symptoms.

I haven't touched alcohol for many years, and my teenage sons are very light drinkers. My ex-wife never touched booze while pregnant, nor did my mother. The greatest gift you can give a child is a fully functioning brain.

Life sentence? Nope! DEATH SENTENCE, swift and sure!

The dispensible ones are the criminals among us. Are any of our elected representives listening?