Unsold Cars

As long as their union employees can afford to buy .... it's all good .

That looks like what Longo Toyota sells in a month
about 2000 vehicles.

Longo Toyota being a dealership in LA.

yep

Bought my car new in 2003. I won't be looking for a new car until around 2018 if I and the car both survive relatively intact. Gone are the days of my grandfather and some of his ilk - he got a new model every two years because the fins were a bit different.

I learn today that Chrysler is trying to get their dealers to buy more cars.

Shove the problem into the distribution channels - another shell game, just like the "bad bank". Guess who ends up owning the shares in the "bad bank"? Why, that would be the taxpayer. And what about the set of all banks exclusive of the bad bank? Who will own those shares? Guesses?

Who will pay for the cars Chrysler will make and push onto dealer's lots? Why, that would be the taxpayer.

And where are the MSM genius "professional" "journalists" with their rapier-pointed analysis of these shell games?

My lease is up on my pick up and I am looking to buy an 08 or 09 crew cab of any model. Not finding any screaming deals out there. Nothing that would indicate the kind of backlog and slowdown I keep hearing about. Not much different than any other year. (Vancouver)

The message that car prices are too high is bang on. Back in the good old days of my youth in a rural small town there were less than a dozen cars for some odd 1200 towns folk. The price of a standard car was then about an average years salary. All taxes were around 5% of income. Loans were near impossible to get unless you didn't need one.
How can you expect to sell a $22,000 truck for $47,000. Any buyers would have to go into debt for more than a years salary? (Taxes about 45% income)
Not to pick on the Nissan company, but for the quality and value, the price is just too damned high. It's the same for all the others, but the Japanese car prices are obscene. And don't please lets get in a mix-up over the quality argument. That's just crap. They're all made with the same poor quality parts and put together by robots. The rest is in your head.
For anyone who thinks a BMW is a greatly superior product over a Chev, I have a bridge for sale. You are paying for the bells and whistles and name, and paying through the nose.

Why by now? Wait six months and you will get more car for less money.

I learn today that Chrysler is trying to get their dealers to buy more cars.

I think there's a reason why Chry-Co has idled it's plants for an xtra long x-mas shut down. There's way too much inventory right now. I think it has a lot to do with the leasing melt down courtesy of Cerberus.

Large dead animals.

You are absolutely right Kate. My Dad bought a new Honda Civic 4-door sedan, nothing fancy, in the 80's that cost about 10% of his annual salary as a professor.

Something similar today would cost nearly double that relative to a professor's salary.

"ward" you are right, no real deals out there. Hard to believe but true. I really have no sympathy for the auto companies.

ward ,

If you are looking to buy , buy a two year old lease return . If you didn't abuse your current vehicle , return it , and buy it back (the next day ) . The difference between the lease buy out and resale of the same vehicle is staggering .

It puts the stupidity of bailing out GM in perspective. With this global glut of cars how stupid is it to force American taxpayers, well, aside from rewarding the Dem's union lackeys, to subsidize manufacturing new cars that no one will buy.

Maybe Obama should buy them all up for his followers. Now that is a stimulus package. It would sure be better than his omnibus bill or Canada's stimulus package. Frankly the politicians have become essentially hyena's on the hunt for others prey. In our case its own citizens money by hook or crook.
Trying to rob the people of their meat, if not future.
Tax thievery for all ,except of course white construction workers or any workers not an immigrant in the US. Here the Provinces & City's will piss it away for Unicorn wishes. Lawyers & politicians will take the lions share as per usual. The public will loose more control over there’re own lives economically with social rules soon to follow for conformity. All the while, the State gains more power at loss taken from its own people.
JMO

Whaaaaaaaaat? No more new cars being purchased by call centre employees? No more leases being doled out to min wage recipients?

Shocking I tell you, just shocking!

Watching my kids and their friends over the last 5 years, leasing this and renting that(whoever heard of renting furniture?), is it any wonder we are where we are?????

And, believe you me, I take no joy in this. I have a step brother and a brother in-law who have both lost their assembly line jobs.

"the Japanese car prices are obscene."

Try buying parts for a Honda. They're readily available but you need to visit the bank to arrange a loan before you head off to Canadian Tire or, even worse, the dealership.

Well, fiddling with the increasing price of cars comes into the governmental calculation of inflation rate as well. I don't really know that much about it, but there are "hedonic adjustments", which try to incorporate changes in the vehicle that you "pay for" - such as electric vs roll-up windows. A lot of these changes are standard however, so you can't opt out of them.

Sorry for my inelegant explanation

http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2005/05/22/hedonic-pricing-an-economic-house-of-cards/

Ward- Prices are way down in Alberta. I don't need a vehicle right now, and I'd lose my shirt on a trade-in, but there are some sweet deals right now.

I know people who have been shopping for a new car or truck but going to various dealers there are no deals. Even the used stuff is not moving, they wont deal. We made an offer on a used van 3 yrs ago, dealer would not even come down 10.00, said he had lots of people looking at it. Guess what, it is still on the lot, at the same price as 3 yrs ago.
If you think cars are high priced, try looking at farm machinery. First new combine we bought eons ago was less than 10,000.00
Today that combine is over 200,000.00
And when that breaks down you are still unable to get the crop off.

Wait for what is going to happen any month now. The American dollar is going to collapse, the dreaded dollar rout, and you can use your loonies to buy something from south of the border.

Either that, or the rest of the world is going to happily lend us trillions of dollars a year.

Lot rot.

Look, there were millions making toasters, irons, and everything else a few decades ago.
Others starting making them faster and cheaper, and those jobs were lost to first world countries.
TaTa Motors is about to bring a car to market that's perfectly OK for $2,500 US.
Our industries today still employ those millions of toaster makers, and more, making new things we're best at.
That's the way of it. There is no tariff, regulation, or bailout that's going to change it.

We will survive quite nicely thank-you.
Jobs will die and jobs will be reborn.
Governments just need to allow it to happen.
The best they can do is soften the blow to those who can't be retrained.

Unfortunately, prudence, and doing the right thing, would likely be punishable by death, at the ballot box.

hell. Give em to the muzzies in Francerabia. They know how to get rid of excess vehicles!

biffjr

""""Try buying parts for a Honda. They're readily available but you need to visit the bank to arrange a loan before you head off """"

I used to have a TC3(early 80T's) as a shop runner, broke a fitting for a vaccume line, went to a dealer and the parts guy warned about the price, $78.oo plus tax. So of to the air fitting supplier, $6.oo later and two parts we were good to go. You need to learn the after market thingy, saves you a lot of bucks!!!!

And what did Obamarama do today??
U.S. President Barack Obama's directive Monday that carmakers will soon be required to build more fuel-efficient cars and trucks.

Most people buy a lot more car than they need anyway.

I love my new Nissan Maxima. I will drive it for about 20 years If I am lucky ... I am 65 now.

My last car was a Volvo and I drove it for 15 years. On an annual basis, those cars are affordable.

If Chrysler renamed their cars 'Chrysler Elephant' and painted them all white, they might find a niche market.

I am not sure who I despise more the capitalists on wall street or the communists in the UAW.

This is not longer my planet. It has been taken over by the worst generation of lazy, greedy scum bags in history.

Why weren't there huge inventory reduction sales before the bailout?
Accounting 101

I heard on the radio news that Obama's approval has dropped from 74 to 68 in a week. The announcer sounded crestfallen. I am predicting that in a couple of years, Barry bashing is going to be so rampant it becomes tiresome.

Kate,

Two things;

1] Unless we know what those lots looked like 2/3/5 years ago, I assume FUD.

2] This phrase: "With many manufacturers on extended Christmas shutdown, the number of cars rolling off production lines in December fell 47.5% to just 53,823"... Doing the math, this seems to imply 100,000 cars/mo. Somehow, I think Japan does more than 100,000 cars before I've finished my morning coffee.

Tim in VT:

Obama's a one-term wonder.  He (and the Dems) will get his/their first comeuppance at the mid-terms, two years from now.  When Congress goes majority Republican, that'll be all she wrote — Barry'll be a lame duck until the end of his term, unless he plays a much better centrist.

Still, the next two years are going to be entertaining, if nothing else...

Garth

another_anon is surprisingly correct. These storage areas ALL look like this ALWAYS. These storage lots are always very busy. Sometimes the rail cars don't show up for days late. All automakers, including everyone's sweetheart, Toyota, maintain about 80 days field stock, to ensure proper selesction for their customers. If the fieldstock drps below 80, overtime is scheduled. When it from time to time ballons over 100, layoffs are scheduled. Every single one of the photos in that gallery are nothing unusual. Maybe the Nissan test track shot is unusual (where are they testing their vehicles? - so much for superior quality). How do we know Nissan doesn't have a huge quality issue that requires these vehicles to be held until the issue is resolved? Again, not all that unusual. These photos, as shocking as they seem, are a non story.

Gunney99: You have a good point on the BMW thing. A long time ago in a province far far away (well Saskatchewan), I worked for a BMW dealership. Personally I didn't like them then and I thought they were over priced and over hyped, although the I think that is in part due to the fact that the first time they were introduced to North Am, they were chain driven and that did not pan out too well, especially in a western province with less than balmy winters. Repairs? Refinance your house and maybe you can get part of the work done.

I am still waiting on market to reflect the glut of vehicles relative to price and my instinct tells me the big 3 and the dealers are waiting for access to the bailout cash to support their prices versus being forced to have a fire sale to clear out inventory backlog. Until then, I am happy to drive the rice burner and have a tank of gas last me 2 to 3 times as long as a truck I could use but don't absolutely need at this particular point in time. (Oil and Gas related business)

but we need to spend lots to pay for all the green technology and if fewer people are driving the greenies are happy right?

Is it time to call this the green recession?

I couldn't agree with you more Kate. I remember in the mid-80's I could buy a Ford Ranger pickup for $8500.
Why can they not built the Plymouth Horizon anymore and sell it for $3000? Add $30 to mine as I'll opt for the AM radio.

saw a brand new mustang on the lot last night for 29k.
Id swear it was 45k last year.

Chazz, when I was in Kansas City last July I passed literaly thousands of Ford SUVs parked in paved fields near the airport and they were all brand new but not just from 2008 year models. Doubt very much they will have moved at all over the last 6 months.

I could be all wet here, but I think one of the points was about regulations. My father ran a general garage for nearly 40 years. When a headlight burned out, you popped in a new round (or rectangular) glass bulb and reflector for at most $5. Now the bulb is $20-$50. If you happen to bump into something and destroy the new 'reflector' assembl(ies) we're talking about $800-1000 each.

Air bags go off in a collision? Count on another $2K-3K in damage to the interior and windshield.

Fancy HED bulbs (those blueish things) are $50-80 each which pales in comparison to the 12VDC/20AMP input to 50K volt output driver boards (a 3x5 inch circuit board that cost about 2 bucks to make). You blow one of those and you're lucky to find a used replacement for less than $500 - by the way, there is one for the left and one for the right...

Of course, if it costs more to repair after an accident, it costs more to insure.

Give me a steel chrome bumper anyday....

Chazz- You're right about the storage areas always looking like that, especially in port cities. Even Halifax has some large fields of new cars.

The gallery I'd like to see is lease returns coming back this year. Those will be impossible to sell. There'll be pickup trucks as far as the eye can see.

You can easily see how much they've cut prices, by going on Ford's website. Just do a build, and you'll see an instant $5000 delivery rebate on most models. GM and Chrysler have similar deals. I saw a GMC 4x4 with diesel engine the other day with a sticker around $10000 less than a year ago. I notice these things because I bought an SUV a couple of months too early.

Not only are the car prices way too high, production exceeds demand. Sorry to say it Detroit...your days are over and no amount of stimulus will save you. Next subject please!

I confess to personally destroying the North American auto industry. I bought my last new car (Ford-built) in 1977 and drove it for 12 years. My last North American car leaked in every conceivable way (even the oil pan rusted through!). Now, I drive a 23-year-old Mercedes-Benz diesel, bought used. I've had it for six years and intend to have the kids drive me to the old folks home in it. Parts are pricy, but depreciation is nil.

DaveCF - I helped also. I've been driving VWs since 1985 - great little cars - terribly reliable - great resale or lease residual value (until recently anyway) and good in the snow with winter tires. The only problem that I had recently was when I hit a dirty brown lower section of Frosty the Snowman on the way to North Bay. Came around a bend at 110K at night on a road that was a bit too slippery for a quick evasive move and hit a giant slush turd from a big truck. It split the air dam on my Jetta GLI into several pieces...

Other than that little escapade, I've done fairly well over the past 24 years...

Well, this must be a warning not to enter a car dealership. A few years back a certain dealership, I swear that the salesmen would throw themselves in front of my car if I showed an indication of just driving through the lot. And if I decided to stop...geesh, they'd be at my car door before I turned the car off.

I’m looking for a new primary vehicle to drive this spring/ summer 2009.

Wooohoo, I hope prices fall even more, I might even get them to pay me to take one off their hands. Makes up for some of the ridiculous gouging over the last few years. Might even go Asian…………but I doubt it, more than likely another Ford because they’ll most certainly out last the other BIG 3.

My current Ford XLT 4x4 has been a fantastic unit; I bought it new 10 years ago and it still shines like new inside and out. No squeaks or wind whistles, no major problems other than the digital odometer flashes on and off at times. Hard to pass up another one if the quality’s the same.

I agree that these pictures do not tell the story. Most of the imported vehicles sitting at the POE are waiting for rail shipment. Rail companies hate to ship empty rail cars around, so if the North American manufacturers are not producing in the Mid-West, then cars imported at the east and west coast get parked until Toyota or Honda or BMW are prepared to pay ship premiums to get the empty boxcars moving.

Trucker know how this works.

I was going to add that I would love to replace my 2000 Sierra with a new truck but until I can determine that my Big 3 pension will survive, purchasing a new vehicle no matter how good the deal would be rather, risky. A matter of confidence.

Of course, if a certain conservative government was to push significant tax cuts as a stimulus, I could be tempted. That would be wrong. I should be thankful that we have farsighted coalition politicians and bureaucrats who know that spending my money on a new highway a few years from now will be far better stimulation than me driving on the current road today.

[quote]Obama ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to re-examine whether California and other states should be allowed to enforce tougher auto emission standards than those imposed by the federal government.[/quote]

This is the biggie.. The US Supreme Court ruled that the EPA can regulate Carbon.., but they (EPA or State) must prove the science in Court, if challenged. This is why GM was asked to sign a waiver.. And now 700 billion is battered about for the Gov Auto fleet to be spent by 2010.. Bastards bribing bastards.

The Shit Heads are trying a End-Run around a Congress "mandate" that would at least hold Senators responsible. This is not constitutional!

This action places a State, or 11 States in a special Class. Like the Gore vs. Bush Florida debacle of 2000, the USSC ruling that Florida SC could not change federal voting rules such that each Florida vote became a super vote. The Dem’s “super delegate” vote deciding the nominee, or the State of California deciding what cars are sold in America.

Is the EPA now a California entity? Are we heeded for a civil war?

Actually, the notion that new cars have become exorbitantly overpriced is a bit of a miss. Two examples- Back in 1982 we paid $9800 for a brand new Charger 2.2 (Omni hatchback), at $500 over invoice, less a $750 rebate. The car had a nice stereo, nice upholstery, manual windows, 4 spd tranny, etc. No A/C It was comparably priced to a Civic or a Corolla, maybe less. That didn't matter as I basically only buy Mopars. 13 years later I was able to sell a new Neon with A/C, airbags, and fuel injection, and phenomenally better build quality for about $13G and make money. Right now, you can buy a new Caliber for substantially less than 20K. Apples to apples comparison, the Caliber is ahead of the Neon in terms of build quality, safety, and overall long term life expectancy, and light years removed from my 82. BTW, the 82 was replaced with an 83 Shelby Charger that was a fairly inexpensive car to own over the ten years we had it. Second case in point- When I graduated high school, the baddest hot rod you could buy off the dealer lot was a Chevy pick-up with a 454 in it. If you loaded up a Silverado with windows, locks, power seat, air, cassette, two tanks, radials, and a 454, you'd be signing over about 11 grand, which was just about what a journeyman mechanic or welder or machinist could expect to make in 1978. Right now, the list price of a well-optioned pick-up is about what a tradesman averages across the country- mid-40's. But, for that price, your new 09 will have 2 more doors, 4wd, a bevy of safety and convenience features that you couldn't get on the 1978 model. To boot, my 03 Hemi Ram has substantially more power than even a 454 did in 1978, and gets about 40% better fuel economy than we were able to get from a 1978 440 Dodge Club Cab that we used to own. Right now, I can buy a nicely optioned 09 Dodge Ram crew 4x4 for around 35K, so a 2wd Hemi Ram reg. cab should be a lot less, and a far cry from a years wages for skilled tradesman. They don't make too many cars without A/C or PW/PDL any more because they became almost impossible to sell in the 90's (there's another story there to back that assertion), but the main cost issue has been the cost of meeting government mandated safety and emissions standards that long ago became a case of spending large amounts of engineering energy to make very tiny gains beyond what was achieved by about the early to mid-90's. Had that engineering expertise been put to use elsewhere, we might have seen some huge gains in productivity, as well as some really cool innovations in design might have had a chance at life.

Several years ago I read an analysis of Chrysler's near 1979 bankruptcy (besides the 1979 "crisis", Chrysler had similar financial dire straits in the early 1960's and again in the early 1990's). Chrysler had been making over 50% of their production for the sales bank; an inventory of officially sold vehicles; ie sold for financial statement purposes. Other makers only made 1% or 2% for the sales bank but Chrysler let the ting get out of hand. Each new fiscal year they had to actually sell the existing sales bank before they could record the first buck of revenues for the new fiscal year! If you want reported sales to increase each year the sales bank must keep growing. Long and short, the Windsor Race track and Wayne County Fairgrounds were rented to store the sales bank vehicles and Chrysler hired contractors to turn over the engines once a week and keep the batteries charged!

It looks like it may be happening again; gotta keep those assembly lines at full tilt!

Did Kate ban the use of paragraphs?

Posted by: Bill Greenwood at January 27, 2009 12:34 AM >

Wow, there's a "no nonsense" way to look at things!..............:)