On The Other Hand, We Did Win Those Wars

Joe the Plumber makes more sense than many a state leader. How's that for irony?

They also won the war in Iraq despite the shrill noise from the media - and there's something to be said for that as well.

Alchemist's First Law of Plumbing: "Pipes carry hot water, cold water, 100% crap or 100% gas... Be sure you know which is which!"

See, plumbing and media aren't that different...

Andrew, there were no journalists clammoring to get into Iraq. The few who actually went stayed hunkered down in the Green Zone and obtained their information by cell phone.

Greg Pollowitz is a political junkie who lives in New York City and is the founder of iQ Venture Partners, Inc., a private equity investment bank that specializes in early stage companies.

http://sixers.nationalreview.com/author/?q=MzgyNg==
http://www.iqventurepartners.com/

Ohhh, a Wall Street banker telling a plumber how to be a journalist. How is that TARP funding going, Greg?

I like Joe, but they should get him an interpreter who speaks Ohio and English.

There were War Correspondents, Journalists, covering the World Wars.

Basil Clarke was a famous War Correspondent during WWI.

Richard Dimbleby was a famous War Correspondent during WWII who accompanied the British Expeditionary Force to France, made broadcasts from the battle of El Alamein and the Normandy beaches during the D-Day landings, flew on some 20 raids as an observer with RAF Bomber Command, including one to Berlin, and broadcast the first reports from Belsen concentration camp.

Al Gore was a War Correspondent during the Vietnam War.

The media was the reason the US lost Vietnam. After the Tet offensive Cronkite collapsed (even tho the VC got the crap kicked out of it...). Johnson said ' we lost Cronkite we lost America...' or words to that effect..

We have to remember that Joe is NOT a "professional" Journalist. ;-)

It's not the idea of war reporting per se that's the problem, the problem is that in the last forty years reporters a) take sides instead of being objective, and b) they in effect take the enemy side by providing propaganda to weaken resolve at home.

Example number one: When it looked like the Iraq mission was heading south, the usual suspects like CNN were wallpapering the airwaves with coverage stating that the mission and the policy and the administration behind it was a disaster. When it became evident that Baghdad was largely secure and that Iraqi civilians were now able to simply go about their business without their brutal former dictator's henchmen hovering over their heads, coverage of the war pretty much stopped altogether -- in other words, when it looked possible that their nation might be losing, American networks were trying to speed the process along; when their forces achieved stability in Iraq, they evidently didn't want the American public to know that.

Joe the Plumber's take isn't a theoretical treatise on the matter and form of the free press, his take is based on such reporting as he has seen, so in a real-world sense, he's right.

It's not the idea of war reporting that's the problem, the problem is that in the last forty years reporters take sides, and, more to the point, they -- in effect -- take the enemy side by selectively providing such information as will weaken resolve at home.

Example number one: When it looked like the Iraq mission was heading south, the usual suspects like CNN were wallpapering the airwaves with coverage stating that the mission, and the policy and the administration behind it, was a disaster. When it became evident a few years later that Baghdad was largely secure and that Iraqi civilians were now able to simply go about their business without their brutal former dictator's henchmen hovering over their heads, coverage of the war pretty much stopped altogether. When it looked possible that their nation might be losing, American networks were trying to speed the process along; when their forces achieved stability in Iraq, they didn't want the American public to know that.

Joe the Plumber's comment wasn't part of some theoretical treatise on reporting; his comments were based on such real-world reporting as he has and the rest of us have seen, and in that sense he's right.

Don't make me repeat myself.

"Joe the Plumber's take isn't a theoretical treatise on the matter and form of the free press, his take is based on such reporting as he has seen, so in a real-world sense, he's right."

Yes he is. It was artlessly phrased but in essence it was almost completely accurate. If Ernie Pyle was here today, that would be a different matter, but he's not. Instead we have a collection of relativists who wouldn't warn their own countrymen of the dangers, if they happened to be aware of an 'enemy' ambush.

Perhaps JTP might have been better not to stated the proposition so BLUNTLY, but the 'thought' was perhaps not at all problematic.

I have seen several 'bloogers' criticize Joe on this and point out that if he had his way, they would not be able to post reports from the Fronts. Which is of course true. What goes unsaid is that if Joe had his way, there would be NO NEED for them to post anything at all. They owe their current position to the MSM which has often behaved as a de-facto information outlet for the
'enemy'. Without the actions of the MSM who would need a Yon,or a Roggio,or a Johannes, or a Totten. They exist(objectively) primarily to counter the MSM narrative.

So in artfully expressed or no, what Joe said is precisely what many have saying for the past 5 years. It's certainly worth debating at the very least.

I still remember reading a story of a WWII journalist's account on the eve of D-Day. Gen Eisenhower basically told the gathered media what was happening that evening (para drops into France) and what would happen the next morning. The journalist essentially wrote that he and the other journalists didn't talk to each other or even go near the bar that evening in case they might have one too many because of having the stress of knowing what was going to happen the next day. In other words, all the journalists took it as their duty to protect the information and the soldiers who were embarking on that monumental task. What a difference from CNN...where the enemy could figure out that our fighters were on their way because the "newsman" wanted an action shot of planes taking off from the airfield.

~~favill~~

I'd certainly prefer to read Joe the Plumber's take on events than that from any of the MSM idiots including Fox News' Geraldo.

I hope this guy stays real with out the publicity or any acolades going to his head. He makes more sense than the whole of congress or Parliament. Joe the Plumber, our Common sense dude of the 21st century.

Al Gore was a War Correspondent during the Vietnam War.
..............................

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/al-gore/vietnam-war-service.html

Quote: "Once in Vietnam, some also allege that Gore received special treatment as a former Senator's son (Gore Sr. lost the 1970 election, and was no longer a Senator by the time Gore arrived in Vietnam). According to combat photographer H. Alan Leo, Gore was protected from dangerous situations at the request of Brigadier General Kenneth B. Cooper, the 20th Engineer Brigades Commander. Leo stated that Gore's trips into the field were safe, and that Gore "could have worn a tuxedo." These remarks seem to contradict Gore's many public statements"

"Joe the Plumber's take isn't a theoretical treatise on the matter and form of the free press, his take is based on such reporting as he has seen, so in a real-world sense, he's right."

Welcome to the Soviet Union.

When you consider the colloquial term for plumber ,i.e Turd Herder, then the connection to modern journalism becomes apparent.

I'd certainly prefer to read Joe the Plumber's take on events than that from any of the MSM idiots including Fox News' Geraldo. Me too, iowavette, and I am keeping up with Joe's reports on PJ media. He is a very able correspondent, IMO.

The msm are coward's living in a protective plastic world - they tie porkchops around their necks so their own dogs will play with them.

""" they tie porkchops around their necks so their own dogs will play with them.""""

and when done playing with the CHOP, said dog uses "coward" for a firehydrant

Posted by: Agent Smith at January 14, 2009 11:28 AM>

“The media was the reason the US lost Vietnam”

And the hippies that they pandered to! Now look they are in charge and bombing their preferred targets like they did in Serbia.

“I didn’t inhale”…………but did drop allot of LSD and envision a rainbow world filled with fanatics, dictators and allot of stained dresses.

Yeah war IS hell!!

Two sides(we hope) take turns beating the frickin' crap out of each other, untill one side has had enough. The other usually stops trying to kill them, 'cause it't very expensive, and eventually lets them have some peace: their (the winner) point has been made.

I guess I'm just old fashioned.....