Budget 09 - Your Open Thread

They'll likely add 4th trimester abortions, too.
And what would Warren do with a basketball court?

Seriously
Would it be unreasonable to suggest that single-income couples could *at Minimum* transfer some of their income to their spouse, at least enough to top up what they could already earn tax-free?

Nah, they'l throw another $ Billion or two to who-knows-where.

They'll have to put a few mill in there for little Omar Khadr, who will find a way to sue our gov't once we are forced to bring the little bugger back here.

The new 25% net worth billionaire tax will be introduced to put money back into circulation. Swiss and off shore accounts will be included or confiscated when detected.

Quite accurate. I 2nd every of them. The damn unions must be outlaw.

The jungle drums are already starting over matching funds.

Municipality " I have lots of projects but no money, my budgets are already done, We want stable funding, we want some of the GST!!."

Well I guess the provicial governments could put $$ tocreatures that are their responsibility. But in grand Canadian tradition this is supposd to be about spending someone else's money.

I must say I like the time clock on the money, if this is really about a kickstart, as opposed to cash grab, then that makes some sense.

Of course the NDP is complaining about reduction in enviro assessments and other bureacratic delays, while complaining at the same time that the money doesnt flow fast enough. Yet another reason, not that I needed one, to not take them seriously since they aren't serious in their analysis or criticism.

If the cons were smart they have overestimated the deficit and will deliver a smaller one, because I think the BoC has it right, that things will look better in the scond half of the year going into 2010.

Coalition is dead and even Layton realizes that an election is the result of a government defeat in another few months., especially if they make it to next fall.

If we are lucky that means Layton finds it appropriate to resign and we will see the insufferable Mulcair as the leader of the NDP.

Richard Evans is a sour twit; his predictions are as stupid as the rightoid rightards that agree with him.

I'm Ok with some infrastructure spending . . . as long as very little of it goes to Toronto mayor David Miller.

The rest of the proposed spending frenzy just seems like Bob Rae got a hold of Stephen Harper's brain.

Looks like the infrastructure spending has a little catch in it. Any project using federal funding has to be triple funded. That is the province and municipality also have to pitch in. Considering Ontario and Toronto are both running deficits I'd imagine that not a whole lot is going to get done there.

18. Loads-a-dough to Lavelin and Bombardier for "infra-structure".

I still have to protest the media and opposition parties who are being dishonest with Canadians about "debt" and "defecit."

I would like to see it reported honestly that Canada has a $800 BILLION Federal DEBT.

This debt, which started in Trudeau days and every succesive government since has added to it INLUDING Chretien's Liberals - the last year being 1997 when there was an $8 BILLION DEFECIT in GOOD TIMES.

This Federal DEBT grows by leaps and bounds due to interest rates and costs US more than $28 BILLION per year just in paying the interest!!!!

Harper paid down $38 BILLION off the principal in three years.

But, all of this wailing by the opposition about "burdening our children" with a defecit????

We have been burdened since the 1960's and will still be paying on this debt for 100 years or more.

Any HONEST JOURNALISTS out there want to put some reality ahead of the shrill misrepresentations out there?

Any HONEST JOURNALISTS in ther major media out there???

Richard Evans' predictions are indeed very likely bang-on.

What is so depressing about this is that, if the Liberals were in power, he'd have made the same list and we'd all be smirking and thinking, "Of course. What else can you expect from those Liberals? They don't care about principles...it's all about staying in power."

But, the Liberals are not the ones in power. So why are the Conservatives trying to be more liberal that the Liberals? What ever happened to Stephen Harper's conviction that Canadian values are more conservative than they know?

Someone tell me what is left when it comes to differentiating between the Liberals and Conservatives.

A combination of Bob Rae "spend our way out of the recession" fiscal insanity and zero interest, zero loans financial policy perfected by the Japanese Ministry of Finance during their decades long recession will soon put an end to all our problems.

Buy stock in Loan Sharks R' Us. It's going to the moon.

Lorraine:

As far as I understand, there has been $103 billion paid off on Canada's long-term debt, starting in the Chretien era.

It is true that a huge portion of the long-term debt has been retired during the Harper era.

In any event, the total Canadian debt is lower than it was in 1997.

It hasn't come down quickly enough for my liking, but until a majority Conservative government is elected, we'll have to be satisfied with a steady repayment of long-term debt.

One more question ... why is it up to anybody else to find out the facts for you? Figure it out yourself. The stats are readily available.

Quit wasting your energy typing in capital letters.

Set you free - the stats on the debt are readily available - that is why I question the disnonesty in the media for not reporting it.

Instead they report as if this defecit spending will put the country back into "debt"....knowing full well people don't know the difference.

Fife reported that Bob Rae was not happy with his leader Ignatieff, because Ignatieff wants to read the budget first & would not follow Layton & the ndp and just vote down the Budget for the sake of Voting against the Govt.
I have been trying to find this i believe it was last nites CTV National.

Kinda tough to lose the old coat, Eh Bob!

What all politicians need to learn is that we need to focus on the middle class to either keep them there or help them move up, instead of waiting for them to fall down into the lower class. A family of four that is struggling but still managing to maintain their middle class lifestyle is one missed paycheque from needing social programs that cost a fortune, when a simple smaller tax cut could help them move up the chain and stimulate the economy. When we keep more money in the economy, the economy will grow.

Greater penalties to recover 125% of investors losses and International pressure on the Swiss money laundering helpers.

"One American caught by the disclosure rules is Igor Olenicoff, the billionaire founder of Olen Properties, a real estate development company. Last December he pleaded guilty to failing to file the disclosures from 1998 to 2004, when he put around $200 million in overseas accounts, including at UBS. He paid $52 million to resolve the issue.

Mr. Olenicoff was identified in an indictment of a former UBS banker on Tuesday over violations of private banking and tax issues."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/business/15tax.html

"Canada eh?
There has also been an expose of LGT Group in Liechtenstein for tax evasion, with some 100 Canadians implicated.
So where are Canada’s politicians and regulators? Tax officials are supposedly investigating but there should be public hearings with culprits named publicly. UBS undoubtedly also targeted Canada for cheaters so let’s find out who these people are as well as their accountants and lawyers."

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2008/07/29/ubs-used-to-be-smart.aspx

lorraine - I agree with you. The public debt is 62.3% of the GDP, which is 1.336 trillion.

What people don't realize is that Harper has been using the surplus to pay down this debt - about 38 billion, something to which the NDP in particular, as well as the Liberals, have strongly objected. The NDP and Liberals didn't want the debt reduced; they wanted the money put into 'social programs'. Well, now they have their wish.

What this current budget is doing is taking back and using some of that debt payment (about 34 billion) for those and other programs. Instead of acknowledging this, the MSM are confusing the public, who don't know the difference between a deficit budget and an action of debt reduction.

With all the proposed spending, the only interesting thing will be how the Liberals debate it. Will they take a conservative approach and say too much spending, or will they throw themselves in with the socialists saying that there's not enough? From the leaks I've read, the Liberals are getting pretty much what they wanted.
I think PMSH has caved quite a bit to retain power (he had little choice with these idiots leading the opposition). I would have liked to see another game of chicken.

Let's just hope this budget puts them on a path to a majority. Then it will be fun to hear the opposition squabble.

"the only serious senior liberal who is pushing for the govt. to be defeated is Bob Rae"
bob fife jan26/09 ctv national news 4:18

like i said, kinda tough to throw away the old coat.

The libs will once again demonstrate that their balls are made of styrofoam, and that they don't have the guts to bring down the government despite their endless sabre rattling.

Watching cowards gets tiring after a while.

All I can say id there is no principled responsible leadership left in government....when the bill for this Klepto-corporate bail out/patronage largess comes due, get it from the trough suckers because I'll be busy lighting my torch grabbing a rope and joining the angry mob.

Today we will witness Harper discard the last of his principles for power.

What a shame.

I for one, look forward to years of guaranteed tax increases in the future.

All this spending will have to come out of our pockets sometime.

A 34 billion dollar deficit is sheer loonacy. I guess that is the price for PMSH to stay in business. The alternative? Let the Libs/Dippers govern and run up a 50 billion deficit,I suppose.

With so-called experts saying the economy will snap back by the fall I can see where running continued deficits will contribute to inflation and, when the stimulation money runs its course in a few years, another downturn in the economy.

It will become a self perpetuating cycle that will lead to more pain. I think we have to bite the bullet now. Harper should bring in middle-class tax cuts to stimulate the economy, provide some infrastructure funding and cut government spending big-time. The economy will come around eventually.

A year ago, Harper ‘stiumlated' the economy by giving Canadians tax cuts.

Does anybody here know for a fact that the leaked amount of $64 billion in spending will be all on bailouts?

Is it possible planned corporate tax rates could be fast-tracked?

Or, that income tax rates will go down?

Those moves are also an expense to the treasury.

I'll bet that at least half the $64 will be in tax decreases.

But then, I've been wrong before.

I'm just going to chill and see what happens.

BTW, Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio is the lowest among any economy in the world, including the US, which will become New France faster than Canada.

Ironic, isn't it?

WL Mackenzie Redux not really.

"from 1998 to 2004, when he put around $200 million in overseas accounts, including at UBS. He paid $52 million to resolve the issue."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/business/15tax.html

Lets do the math

Estimated Swiss Accounts at the $200,000,000.00 at 100% penalty.

USA-19000 at $200 million equals $3.8 trillion

Canada 100 at $200 million equals $20 billion

[i]"the only serious senior liberal who is pushing for the govt. to be defeated is Bob Rae"
bob fife jan26/09 ctv national news 4:18[/i]
That's why I usually call him BOOB RAE......
The GTA hasn't yet realized it is not the tail that wags the Canadian dog.....

Bob Rae, huh?

Even more proof that he's an NDP Trojan Horse who infiltrated the Liberal Party.

Ignatieff seems to me a more traditional Liberal. I have seen no integrity issues with him and he strikes me as an honest man.

Trouble is, he's surrounded by a bunch of thieves.

IMHO, Iggy would be better off in the Conservative Party.

At least the Liberals have the decency to look at the budget before deciding whether or not to support it. Apparently the NDP have already decided to vote against it without even knowing what it contains. Why does the media not question Layton on these tactics? How can anyone in his/her right mind take the NDP seriously when they carry on in this manner? Every time that I decide that Jack Layton can not possibly be a bigger asshat, he always proves me wrong. If the NDP ever aspire to be more than just a fringe party, they should take the first step and dump this imbecile.

biffjr.

Does it surprise anybody that all Layton wants is control and power?

Six cabinet seats for a party that polled just 18% last election?

The latest numbers are 13%. Apparently, even diehard NDP supporters in Western Canada understand that Layton does not represent their values.

Harper is doing exactly what a minority government is supposed to do.

The calculated risk he is making is how much of a McCain-ing can his base take. PMSH isn't simply adding a few straws to the "c"onservative camel's back but an anvil.

PMSH is as conservative as the rest of us, but he is playing a much more complicated game than we give him credit for. Lets just hope he's calculated correctly how far his base can bend without breaking.

Don't forget to add on the $75B that Harper has already given to the banks, and the other $215B that has been "set aside".

That brings total spending to roughly $354B over 2 years. That is assuming, of course, that further bailouts to the car companies aren't coming, and that the gov't actually forecasts correctly, which is highly unlikely.

My prediction: boondoggle spending ala Libs, ever increasing debt loads with fewer to pay the tab, and a return of the disco era.

Aiz - the $75 Billion was not given to banks. CMHC bought secured mortgages which are revenue producing assets to free up the bank's capital so they can make new loans helping today's industries and consumers.

You disagree with this?

This is how the Reform party came to be. Conservatives acting like liberals. I didn't leave the conservatives, they left me. As a Westerner I see only one option. Separation.

I like Harper for his stand on Israel, but this budget is a complete and utter cave-in to the socialists and it makes me sick to my stomach.

It's for damn sure I won't be governed by commies like layton and duceppe and an unelected liberal. I will do everything I can to disrupt their coalition if it comes to pass.

Here we are, in the hands of an unelected Haitian, an American, a commie and a french separatist. F*ck me, this could only happen in Canada. What a third world cess pool we've become. Our dead soldiers must be rolling over in their graves.

How long do you think this blog will be up and running if the three stooges are in power? How long until they pass a law banning conservative web sites or radio etc.?

We are being pushed toward civil war. Call me crazy if you like, but the writing is on the wall. Keep your powder dry.

What people don't realize is that Harper has been using the surplus to pay down this debt

Not quite, ET. Harper used a small portion of the surplus to pay down a minute amount of debt. The rest of the surplus he squandered on irresponsible tax cuts and record level spending. Ideology and special interest buy offs trumped sound fiscal management, which would have stood us in good stead to weather the current situation. Instead, all of those years of financial sacrifice is for naught.

I don't know which is more pathetic- Harper's performance or his supporter's mindless determination to live with their heads in the sand.

Philboyd - which special interest groups do you accuse Harper of "squandering" money on?

Chinese head tax? Aboriginal residential schools victims?

Which others do you not agree with?

And, by letting us keep more of our own money with some tax cuts you call this "squandering"?

How so?

Indiana Homez.. PMSH cut himself off the base long time ago with top-down management of the party. From organizational point of view that has been his strength, although as any strength it swings like double-edged sword. I think we are witnessing undoing of Harper, who once had a chance to be the greatest Prime Minister of Canada.
My CPC membership is placed on window ledge waiting for the budget announcement. Unless someone stands up and shouts "Ezra Levant for Prime Minister!", I'll become disinterested observer.

"irresponsible tax cuts "

What a marroooon!

And, by letting us keep more of our own money with some tax cuts you call this "squandering"?

If tax cuts are unsustainable, they are by definition irresponsible. If they give with one hand and take with the other, if they rob Peter to pay Paul, they're running a scam. Why fall for something so obvious?

philboyd, put the communist manifesto aside and and start reading some real economics material.

Income-splitting, income-splitting, income-splitting please god let there be income-splitting.

And watch iggy try and choke down his opposition to it.

"If they give with one hand and take with the other, if they rob Peter to pay Paul, they're running a scam."

Would you say them same when the government takes more from the middle class and higher to pay for services aimed at special interest groups and the poor?

Gord...

exactly right.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/01/27/8166596-cp.html

There's a poll up about deficit spending.

Gord,

As fantastic as that would be, it's just too much to hope for....

Jim

"if they rob Peter to pay Paul"

Phil, in your def'n, who is Peter and who is Paul?

Is Peter the socialist cottilion, and Paul the tax paying "middle class working family" (to use Jack's favourite buzzwords...?

Jim

philboyd (is that a new name for 'hardboiled') - I think you have to quantify your qualitative adjectives of "a small portion of the surplus to pay down a minute amount of debt".

He put 38 billion to the debt since they were elected in 2006. You may consider this a 'small portion' and a 'minute amount of debt' but others don't.

Phil, in your def'n, who is Peter and who is Paul?

Paul would be special interests like gord and wes and jim clamoring for income splitting so wifey can stay at home eating bon bons and watching oprah. Peter would be every other taxpayer who can't get in on the scam.
Paul would be those special interests who can get in on the rec room renovation subsidy....etc.

Oh my. The rec room reno subsidy is indeed a reality. Shades of Grant Devine.