A "Get Smart" Movie Epiphany On The Bailout

Good gravy, what did I miss? I hate logging on after putting the kids to bed.

Bush just wants someone to like him! He destroyed McCain with a phony financial Crisis that quickly turned into the real deal, and now he doesn't want GM to OPEN its books in a Bankruptcy. The plot just gets more complex. I thought "only" Reagan had dementia problems in his last 4 year... The Dem's where right about Bush.. Texas will be getting its village idiot back..

A trillion here and a trillion there and pretty soon you are talking real money.

I've always thought the optimum delivery vehicle for the "suitcase nuke" is the Lincoln Navigator. Big, ugly, expensive and built by dinos. Who'd have thunk it.

I've been running a little bit of a home furniture business from my basement. I'm not particularly good at making the stuff as I'm self-taught, and I've been selling the stuff that I can for less than it costs to make. However, I always make sure to pay myself a goodly amount, even when I'm not actually working on it. And lately, with this downturn in the economy, people have stopped buying my stuff entirely. So . . . . where's my bailout money?

"[T]he Lincoln Navigator. Big, ugly, expensive and built by dinos. Who'd have thunk it."

Oh, I don't know. If the choice was between it and public transport...

While we're on the subject of bailouts...

Does anyone know or even understand the function of lenders in the failure of the automakers. Most specifically Cerebus?

Thought so.

What will we do when the printing presses wear out? By then, all the illegals will have left, and there won't be anybody to build new ones.

Sure, the lenders are lending GM and Chrysler ... Did you miss that part? Oh, wait, you probably meant originally ... Once GM and Chrysler are converted to UAW piggy banks, that will clear up as well.

You can build Volgas, but can you SELL Volgas?

If this acheives Ch 11 without CH 11 then fine.

Right now the problem with a Bankruptcy or Ch 11 financing is that there is no financing available to keep the companies solvent while they go through Ch11...called Debtor in Possession (DIP) financing....Implication Ch11 without financing means ch 7 insolvency and liquidation, company is broken and sold for parts.

It all depends on the terms and conditions that are in place....four main groups need to take haircuts

1) Bondholders....for being stupid enough to supply capital when there wasnt a mgt team with a plan in place to see a reasonable payback. This is supposed to be part of the discipline of capitalism, you need money then lenders crawl up your butt and start to impose conditions.

2) Labour, the request to have the UAW/CAW meet the price of what transplant workers make is hardly unreasonable. They may not be the sole cause but they sure as heck are part of it. Trsut me if the jobs disappear they arent coming back to those communities because of the union taint. It is also sweet justice to see them on the receiving end of gang up, like they use to do to extort the weak kneed mgt at car compnaies. Expect to see a 20 to 30% wage cut. Key to ensuring the future is viable

3)Pensioners - promises made that cant be kept. Sorry to say but they will have to see a reduction of their health, pension and bennies. Probaly to 80% of contract level. IT has happened before in other companies and nobopdy squeeked so they can take platinum plans down to gold or silver plans. It will still be better than 80% of the population anyway.

4) Mgt - Ford guy is golden...the others....well GM in particular needs a major change and while you take assistance from the taxpayer then salaries should be capped...I woould say top salary is no more than 350,000 including bonuses for the next 5 years. Payback the loan and you can get paid whatever you want.

Without goring these oxes then it would be pouring good money after bad. Even then, I have my doubts but think it is worth the try, assuming a plan in place and the stakeholders take their medicine.

A liquidation is not the smart thing to do, it isnt about saving the car compnaies as much as it is about saving parts manufacturing and supply chains....dealers I could care less about.

Ugly situation..what worries me more is the other conditions, types of cars to be built etc. SHoot Prius sales have fallen 45%, they have stopped the plant construction. There has been a general demand falloff, the companies were just so weak this hit at the worst possible moment.

But watch the CAW threaten suicide. They can and should object for show...but at the end of the day, if they dont adjust their wages to transplant level (market level) then they will have no jobs, and what they dont realize is that a community with a union label attatched to it isnt going to attract new investment in a similar industry....they may not like it but thats the reality.

Summary: Bondholder cram down, mgt caps and cuts, pension haircut and wage reduction. Remove anyone of those and the whole thing falls apart. In good times it would have taken place in Bankruptcy court....

With the stroke of his pen Bush has put the Canadian pulp and paper industry back in business. Right on Dubya, who sez another two or three trillion fiat won't be good for the economy.

Phillip G. Shaw.

"The Dem's where right about Bush... Texas will be getting its village idiot back...”

Phillip. Finish this sentence. "Your capacity to regurgitate the drivel of the raging masses is indicative of . . .”

OK. I'll finish it for you. “. . . an intellectually inferior mind attempting to express itself."

Trolls to the left of me, trolls to the right! Oops, that's not right. Trolls to the left of me, trolls to the left!

Yesterday the ctv newsnet had the headline that Bush approved the bailout money. There was no picture of Bush on the screen they cut straight to Obama's take on it.

The angry faces in the MSM have a real surprize coming when they put out anything negative about Obama, watch out. It will start with audits and devolve from there, good luck suckers!

"I had a nuke, I'd put it in a cardboard box..."

No, you wouldn't. Nukes are heavy damned things.

Here is a video of the new Ford plant in Brazil. Major component suppliers are right on site and build their component theres then simply move their assembled parts to the main line. The key part of this video is the comment that the UAW would not allow this type of plant to be built in North America because of the impact on their union "workers".

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

The money being advanced to the auto industry is a loan, right?

And the piles of money that were pitched in the direction of the banking institutions are ... what? Early Christmas presents?

And all this time, I was worrying about whether I'd ask my bank for a small line of credit this month.

Thanks to the government bailouts (both US and Canadian), I decided that - screw it! - I might as well apply for a larger line of credit instead.

So I did and to hell with worrying about it.

And everyone caves, even Harper. From a modest surplus to a $30 BILLION deficit in a month! Way to go, Mister Prime Minister.

So.....is Harper stupid enough to think this money is a wise investment or is he stupid enough to think this will actually convince the union class to vote for him?

Either way, he has once again sold us conservatives out, because if Mr. Socialist Ontario thinks this is a good decision, it HAS to be a bad one.

the bear at December 20, 2008 7:42 AM
Cerebus isn't a lender; it is an owner.

Oh well, I guess I have another car payment now, lol. It's just that this new one will be paid off over the course of my entire life. Doh.

Yeah, it seems that the whole world is demanding bailouts and deficits. I think it's another mass hysteria affecting the liberal establishments around the world.

I only hope Harper will use the deficit to cut back government in a couple of years.

Looks like Siegfried and the gang at Kaos could do a better job of managing the economy than the gang in Washington. First the banks get a big wad of dough for their very survival then it turns out they gave most of it out in managerial performance "bonuses". Now they are going to repeat the process with the Big 3. I guess they can continue this myopic process ad infinitum, however the end result will be a collapse of the currency.

Does anyone know what is going on with the Big 3's production plants in Mexico and South America?
Are they closing/shutting down or ramping up production? whilst U.S. and Canadian taxpayers get dinged with the bail-out.

All I know is Toyota and Honda are laying off employees all around the world.

But then, they're not getting taxpayers dollars like GM and Chrysler apparently are.

It's time for another election. A Harper majority government would have protected out money better.

I like the fact there's conditions on it. Let's see the plan.

Let's see a promise to end the cushy CAW deal where when a worker retires after 30 years, they get $100,000 cash and a $35,000 voucher to purchase a new car.

Anybody else (that means all of you who are going to be footing the bill) have a cushy deal like that?

Either way, he has once again sold us conservatives out, because if Mr. Socialist Ontario thinks this is a good decision, it HAS to be a bad one.
Posted by: Canadian Observer at December 20, 2008 11:57 AM

I'm pretty choked at Harper and the CPC. I'm choked at the CPC for doing a 180 degree switch from balanced budgets to a massive 30 billion dollar "stimulus" package.

I'm still in wait-and-see mode, as I'll swallow the $30 billion figure if a large chunk of that is due to broadly-based tax cuts, tax relief, and/or tax holidays. That's a stimulus package I can get behind, and one that stands any chance of having the desired results.

However, if as I suspect it will be targeted spending on industries, picking winners and losers in corporate Canada, then it will largely be throwing good money after bad, and the nation will be $30 billion dollars in the hole with little long term benefit to show for it.

Very troubling times. I wouldn't have minded a small deficit, pretty much anything under $5 billion. But to go from "balanced budgets" just a few weeks ago to a $30 billion deficit is alarming.

Harper and the CPC, I hope you're listening: tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and nothing but tax cuts!

Schmautus, I will call you grasshopper.

Your superior insight into my motive for pointing out the Jellyfish backbone of G.W. Bush, who is my president, was predictable. I tend to call a dead duck president, who has lost his way, a condiment to the pending depression. The decision of G.W. Bush may have more of a connection to his fathers past association with Halliburton, Hughes & GM. I think an American would understand that statement.

Harper is in a totally different situation; Canada IMO should support the Auto Industry and build the Cars & Trucks that Canadians want & need. The attitude in the US is self-destructive. In a NYT article, last week, by Friedmam (the liberal brain) he said “ The Detroit auto industry must built the cars that people “don’t know” they want but will love them “. WOW what simple logic! During the Big three testimony to the US Senate the CEO of Chrysler made the brilliant suggestion that automakers combine R& D. The Senate & MSM ignored that suggestion which has delivered results in past programs like Manhattan & the formation of RCA. Canada does not have Anti-trust laws & Harper would be wise to require R&D be shared as part of the Canadian package

I bet you think that the PEW institute is still a conservative think tank. No Grasshopper! The PA courts fixed that problem years ago…

Yeah, it's pretty discouraging. Next in line are the forestry industry, mining and probably Bombardier again.

And to think all this money is going to Ontario because we cut a few arts grants in Quebec and didn't get a majority.

This is what happens when you build your castle on sand. There is no real foundation to society. Panic & inuendo become public policy.
JMO

Nicola,

Good what if question.

Best argument for the package is a mercantilist one. No money in then no say in restructuring and it will be restructured to the US.

It doesnt make it right, but it is an issue.

I was glad to see the government takes the parts suppliers seriously, that is ultimately what you are saving not the unionized assembly plants,hard to call them manufacturing. The manufacturing is largely done by the parts industry.

It is a loan, with convenants and sweeteners for the lender, as in warrants for equity which provides upside to the treasury. Nonetheless, the major reason for any of this is right now you can't get the finance industry to provide bankruptcy and reorg financing.....two years ago you could and two years from now you will be able to....

I just hope the US and Canadian governments hammer home the covenants. UAW and CAW must take their bad tasting medicine. Bondholders are going to get crammed down, as they should.

Nobody likes this, and nobody should. But it is a sadly necessary thing to do. If the US said let them go, then we could do the same.

Politics is defintiely at play...the only serious criticism they will get is not spending enough. The spending too much, we already see what happens in this situation, Jack Layton Industry Minister...and if you think the Unions would make any concessions then, forget it.

Here's a thought. Everytime someone hears the word "stimulus" in a conversation they chug a shot. Heading for the bathroom, before long...

Here's a thought. Everytime someone hears the word "stimulus" in a conversation they chug a shot. Heading for the bathroom, before long...
Posted by: mmm at December 20, 2008 6:56 PM

Because every recession needs a good drinking game! ;-)

Kate, you can't put a nuke in a cardboard box. How would you carry the damn thing?

The suitcases have nice handles. That's why you use them.

Let's just borrow a million bucks per Canadian, and then give every Canadian a million bucks.

Presto! Economic stimulus!

Right? Right? Beuller? Beuller?

THE EVILS OF COMMUNISM STAMP OUT COMMUNISM

You punch hand holds in the top. And don't tell me suitcase nukes too heavy for a cardboard box - the bad guys in KAOS run around with them like they're full of STA-PUFT marshmallows