I propose that from this day forward, any person who has membership in any so-called “Green” party, or who belongs to any recognized environmental NGO be denied access to any business that sells, distributes, or serves food;
“I have the feeling the same will happen in Manitoba as it happened in Switzerland some years ago, Gfell told a Morris hog producer rally recently and also in an interview after the meeting. “In the 1970’s, we had a big problem with water pollution. Lake Bodensee had become a sewer dump because of the rapid expanding population in Switzerland in the 50’s and 60’s.”
The huge increase in industrial and agriculture production had people dumping their wastewater into the lakes and rivers. In the 70’s, it was so bad, that it was impossible in some places to take water from the lake.
The Swiss native said just like in Manitoba, the government and environmentalists blamed mostly hog industry for the pollution. In 1978, they placed a complete ban on any more new hog barns. In 1983, they passed legislation to include a unit limitation as to how much livestock a producer could have. Ironically, they wanted to ban industrial hog production, but in Switzerland, industrial hog production was anything higher than 150 sows and 75 gilts or 1000 hectares.
In the 70’s, there had been a huge expansion in the hog industry, farmers investing in feedmills, new barns, and new technologies.
“When the bill passed in 1983, the farmers had to reduce their farms from 200 to 250 sows farrow to finish units, to 150 sows,” said Gfell. “However, when the ban came in 1973, many producers did not have new barns, but 50-year old barns in many cases. Producers are still using those same barns today because they have not been able to build anything new.”
Here comes the challenge for the industry in Manitoba. Now imagine in Manitoba, if the province had frozen the industry in the 1970’s at that level, fast forward to 2008 and look at the scenario. Those producers who have relatively new barns now in Manitoba are in good shape for the next ten, maybe 20 years.
“But the ones like me, who have just started out [he came here in November 2005] and my barn is already 21 years old,” he said with heavy emotion. “I’m 30 years old, and even if I do some renovations, my barn will only last for ten years at the most, maybe, and then I have to replace or get out.”
His original plan was to build a feedmill on the place, a new barn to feed his pigs up to 50 pounds, then another barn for finishing pigs, a step by step sustainable plan.
“Well, that is impossible under the permanent ban placed on hog barn expansion by the government,” he said.
It’s long overdue that the zealots who insist on throwing regulatory roadblocks before every aspect of agricultural production start walking the walk and start feeding themselves. I’m sure Gary Doer has a spare bedroom he could covert to meet his family’s pork needs.
More on Manitoba’s “draconian” Bill 17 legislation at Siemens Says, including this speech by Harry Siemens.
All over the Country, gag laws & this bunk is being shoved down our “Collective” throats. Provincially or federally. Seems to me anti-Democratic forces have taken to fight a last war for the Nations free soul. I think its a last ditch offense against any real democratization of this Country. They have held power so long its now considered a birth right. Now all the quasi legal or socialist organizations are pitching there rules of suppression. Most Premiers haven’t a clue we are under attack. Those that do are part of it with its many NGO‘s.
Just my opinion
Let’s not be hasty, there are groups like Conservation International which are run by pro-business people. They’re rare but they exist.
Farmers always think they have a special role in the food production process. They believe their role is the only one that shouldn’t be regulated. They really think the rest of the world should bow down and worship them for their miraculous ability to give us food from nothing. Their gift is handed down from generation to generation just like the monarchy.
Truth is, there’s nothing magical about the ability to drive a tractor and shovel shit. As business owners they need to wake up and understand the country runs on more than bacon and eggs. There are plenty of qualified people out there who’d love to own a business that isn’t hobbled by safety regulations, a certification process, child labour laws, and so on.
Your “feed the world” speech might actually get an ear in western Canada, but good luck pushing your weight around in the global marketplace that Canada is a part of.
Good point. Or, we could just export food production to China, Mexico, and India, like we did when we fixed those “under”regulated, “under”unionized and “under”taxed manufacturing industries.
Just a note to avoid confusion for anyone attempting to find the lake on a map. The german name for the lake is Bodensee. In english, it is Lake Constance. It is located on the eastern border between Germany and Switzerland.
“They believe their role is the only one that shouldn’t be regulated”
Give your head a shake, farmers face all sorts of regulations. Have you ever tried to start a dairy farm or cheese production?
“There are plenty of qualified people out there who’d love to own a business that isn’t hobbled by safety regulations, a certification process, child labour laws, and so on.”
Fine, drive on down to south western Ontario where the qualified people you know so well can buy top quality farm land for about $5,000 per acre. Just a hint though, they’ll have to work more than 9-5, Monday through Friday without several weeks vacation (paid), sick days, and a company contributed pension plan.
BTW – though I’m not a framer (I live in Toronto), I had business dealings with farmers. The modern hog farmers I’ve met save the pig manure for fertilizer and wouldn’t think of dumping it even if it was legal – it’s too useful. Many are now using drag lines that inject the manure directly into the soil so there is no runoff.
The worst thing is, not a single environmentalist group called for the ban.
It was all the NDP’s knee jerk reaction.
dp
Your an asshole
I’ve worked on plenty of farms in my teenage years between school breaks in the summer from Sasketchewan to Ontario. Dairy farms are the hardest. Up at 4:30 to prepare milking the cows shoveling corn in the cylo to other chores and than milking the cows again in the evening. I worked on a farm near Trosaks Sask for several summers for an old coot who worked me like a dog.
You say farmer put themselves on a pedastle,well okay maybe they do. But apart from health care worker who do the same can’t go on strike to swindle the tax payer for higher pay. Farmers depend on unpredictable. Government worker rely on the tax payer.
Occasionally the greenniks support (some) farmers in opposing regulation:
Jacob Grier, Raw Milk Rebellion
On May 1, Pennsylvania state troopers arrived at the home of Mennonite farmer Mark Nolt, seizing a reported $20,000 to 25,000 worth of farm equipment and placing Nolt under arrest. His crime? The illegal sale of unpasteurized milk and other dairy products…
These are just the latest skirmishes in the growing conflict over the right to sell unpasteurized, or “raw” milk. On one side of the fight is an odd coalition of whole foodists, dairy farmers, and libertarians who want the government to butt out of their milk-drinking decisions. On the other side are public health officials and assorted busybodies determined to tighten regulations.
And they were right to do so. Unpasteurized milk is and has been one of the largest sources of tuberculosis. It is and will remain a public health threat. Libertarianism does not mean you are entitled to endanger the health of your neighbours. This isn’t about tightening regulations, it’s about defending those already in place for very good reason.
Obama wants to chat with terrorist states like Iran, but knows NOTHING about history. So this is what an Ivy League education gets you:
“Uh … I had a … uncle who was one of the … uh … who was part of … the first American troops to go into Auschwitz, and liberate the concentration camps. And the story in our family was is that when he came home, he just went up into the … into the attic, and he didn’t leave the house for six months.”
Auschwitz is in POLAND; Allied troops never liberated that particular camp.
Now with the original video:
http://tinyurl.com/4aqtyz
Let us see if the media picks up on this like Hillary’s sniper lie. Let us see if the media is OBJECTIVE (of course this is like the twentieth line of b.s. that has not been covered).
I have had a lifetime’s imvolvement in agriculture, so let me assure you it is indeed a well regulated industry here in the US. There is no free ride for farmers and subsidies should be discussed as an international issue only.
It is agriculture’s lot to be responsible for producing most of the food consumed by a population that knows little or nothing about even the basics of agrticulture let alone its complexities. People think food comes from a store and that it will always be there, cheap, well varied and plentiful. None of them realizes that agriculture too is a limited resource, most significantly as a knowledge base. The average farmer in the developed world is getting older and the needed younger ones see the hassle of government making their lives set upon like no others a reason to take on another career. Thus, essentially, the bulk of our cornucopia is in danger of being frittered away by foolish and vastly short sighted decisions.
If you don’t like oil cartels, wait until you meet the food cartels.
Truth is, there’s nothing magical about the ability to drive a tractor and shovel shit.
Heh, he sounds like all the other “experts” who went broke. Or “advised” others into bankruptcy.
The chickens are coming home. The O&G industry in Alberta has had to face hysterical environmental fear-mongering for years now. Much of the power for the anti-development environmentalist mouthpieces came from landowners who make their living in the Ag-industry.
Now the bitter anti-development pill is being fed to the Ag-industry itself (to selected bits at first, of course).
Our country is turning into Suzuki’s Canadian dream through the banning of progress and free market business. The Wheat Board may be saved yet…just in case of famine.
Michael, please check that you’re on the right thread in the future. Thanks.
yes kate, wouldn’t that be great, having to rely on china for our food. starvation from coast to coast. if the government continues on the agw kick the result will be much the same.
Governments have the ability to legislatively attack rural areas at will. Let’s face it, the average second generation and subsequent city dweller is fairly ignorant about where their life necessities come from. Of course, they have a general idea but very little real knowledge of the business of farming, electricity, mining, pipelines, forestry etc. They seem to think that an abundance of low cost, high quality, stable and varied products is a given. Only rousing to notice problems long after the politicians and bureaucrats have mucked the system up. Then reacting by promptly blaming the producers, the capitalists and speculators (as directed by the MSM and politicians, of course).
Shawn
Dropping out of grade 5 to work on a farm donte hert you non do it?
I started working on dairy farms every summer when I was 13. Mostly for relatives. The pay was spectacular, and the lessons I learned from working under extremely dangerous conditions has been invaluable in my later life.
I grew up in the maritimes, and the farmers there didn’t whine and bitch about every obstacle. They pulled on their coveralls and worked like machines. Since I moved west my opinion of farmers is not the same. They’re too rich, too fat, too lazy, and too loud. They make a fortune from oil and gas exploration through dumb luck. They don’t deserve any more respect than the guys driving the grocery delivery trucks.
This is a case of two rash actions by the Manitoba government that were both collosal mistakes. The first was years ago when they basically allowed new hog production to build any where the owners wanted to – including in the Red River floodplain. The flooding that happens there regularly has on several occasions flushed out manure lagoons into the surrounding area. Public outcry was understandably heavy.
The second is this recent act that literally has no scientific basis as no scientific group that was consulted recommended anything close to the action that was taken. This complete embargo coupled with new American country of origin labelling could mean the extinction of the Man. hog industry over the next decade.
This is good news to the provinces to the west of Man. – particularly AB IF the new land use policy that Ted Morton introduced last week lives up to it billing. It looks to be a landmark (pardon the pun) piece of legislation that will protect property rights to a level never seen in CDA before – the days of NIMBY protests and interference may be over.
dp
No it donte hert me non at all. It was grade 11 not grade 5. The money was’nt that great,I only gots paid 10 bucks a day but I enjoyed the experiance. Western grain farmers do tend to belly ache I’ll agree with you there and the labour might not be intensive as cattle farmers. But still put in thier fair share of time. And dairy farmers from Ontario and Que can be just as loud.
Its not fair ta slag those grocery truck drivers. Not every old lady can make it to the grocery store. I respect the garbage man just the same as I would the nurse. The kind I don’t respect are those who work at the HRC trolling hate sites pretending to get offended and rake in all that tax free money and you and I are stuck with the court costs.
I started working on dairy farms every summer when I was 13…the lessons I learned from working under extremely dangerous conditions has been invaluable in my later life.
Haw Haw, dangerous conditions! What, no railing on the edge of the hay stack? Haw haw, that’s funny.
I’ll bet ol’ hoss never drove a farmall with narrow front wheels and no fenders on a steep sidehill pulling a hay crimper. Well neither did my big tough brother-in-law. He left that job to his 14 year old hired hand. Ol’ hoss probably never went hand over hand on a beam 30 feet up to move a block and tackle. Neither did my poor oversexed uncle Ben. He let my 15 year old brother do that job. In fact I’ll bet ol’ hoss never did anything by hand. But I’ll bet he ate his own young just like every farmer I’ve ever met. Haw Haw yourself fat boy.
DP is right, there is nothing magical about driving a tractor or shoveling shit. But DP is also an ignorant fool when it comes to how his food is produced.
People are complaining already about the rising cost of food, well lets just buy all our pork from other countries and then we might have reason to complain.
Bottom line, feeding people is bad for the environment. So therefore it is better that people are forced from the business of feeding people then to hurt the sacred earth.
What the NDP are trying to do is truly beyond comprehension and borders on insanity.
I actually spend most of my time very close to the land jay-mo. I see first hand the double standard used when regulating oilfield environmental issues and agricultural environmental issues. Most of the farmers I deal with are not hurting financially, but still complain about environmental regulations. Claiming they can’t afford a fence to keep their cows out of a river, then spending 50 grand on an ornamental stone fence around the yard doesn’t make a good impression on some folks.
So where does all this Manitoba pork end up? I doubt the domestic market needs any more. Is it really about feeding the masses? We have umpteen feedlots per township in parts of southern Alberta. Most of that beef is for export. The feedlots, and slaughter operations are mostly foreign owned. Tyson foods of Texas owns the largest in Brooks AB. They employ thousands of temporary migrant workers from Africa. Brooks has one of the largest African ghettos in Canada.
They use a lot of water in those places, but who gets the blame for destroying western Canada’s water supply? You guessed it, the oil industry. And who’s really getting rich here? We know Tyson foods is. How about the employees? They’re sending most of their pay home to Africa and Mexico. How about the town of Brooks? Maybe, but the huge cost of social problems, and crime sort of balances things out. What about the rancher? Are there any real ranchers left? How many have been swallowed up by corporate farms?
Where do we really get our meat and potatoes? Well, lots of our vegetables come from Hutterite colonies. Is that a good thing? Ask the local small town businesses. Hutterites are communists. They don’t contribute much to the system. I’m seeing more and more produce from the States, and frankly I’m glad. It’s much better quality and it’s cheaper. It’s also fair ball since we’re exporting all that beef and pork.
So you’re probably right about me being an ignorant fool, but I do know a tiny bit about where my food comes from.
I’ll bet ol’ hoss never drove a farmall with narrow front wheels and no fenders on a steep sidehill pulling a hay crimper.
Does holding a tractor with the FEL (that’s front end loader) so it doesn’t slide down a steep hill because the wheels slide, count? Driving fence posts, dontcha know.
Ol’ hoss probably never went hand over hand on a beam 30 feet up to move a block and tackle.
Does building a 30ft high roof on a barn count?
It’s obvious to those who know farm and ranch life that you haven’t a clue about agriculture. First thing to do when in a hole is stop digging.
dp is TROLL …. ignore it!
DP
Hutterites are communists. They don’t contribute much to the system.
A different kind of communist who actualy produce something where free loaders probably are’nt tolerated.
They don’t seem to be a burden on the system what what I can gather.
There are a lot of low life who are a part,live off of and contribute nothing to the system.
I believe that if the hog barn issue was put to the people in a referendum they would be shut down period.
They’re only there to produce for the American market not Canada.
Eventually,if they are not controlled, they will pollute all the waters in Manitoba.
Is anyone who doesn’t see life through your narrow view a troll, you pot bellied old fart?
Hey ol hoss, I,m glad you didn’t let your 12 year old do all the hard work. Or did you? I went to school with a kid whose dad was a real tyrant. They had a boar that must have weighed 500 lbs, and they never got around to cutting his tusks. He used to send the youngest son into his pen with the slop. My dad asked him why he sent such a young kid into such a dangerous situation, and his answer was “cause he’s the fastest”.
Shawn, I deal with hutterites on a regular basis because they own so damn much land in southern AB. They do produce, that’s a fact. They also destroy a lot of the land they own. When they’re done with it, it’s basically dead. As for freeloaders, pretty well everyone over 40 sits back and watches the young boys do all the work. Too much wine and sausage. That’s why they need to pump out kids so fast.
Those kids are some of the best employees you can get for labour intensive jobs. The ones who leave the colonies always do well. It can’t be all that great if so many are willing to leave the life. Retirement by age 40, free booze for life, women who do as they’re told. I’d be tempted to give it a try.
Wow, what a bunch of interesting postings. Better humour than the CBC produces. As I told my MP; Here is a headline you will never read in the paper; LACK OF COMPLAINTS WORRIES FARMERS.” The issues confronting famers are manifold but we still live in one of the most prosperous free countries in the world. And I know that freedom has some severe limitations; first and foremost the lack of property rights.
There is a generational change occuring in agriculture right now. The generation of farmers who grew up before the chemical age of farming were, in a general sense of the word, more cooperative as well as self reliant. No screaming for government intervention to mitigate risk. The generation raised during the 60’s and 70’s have much different attitudes. Not always for the better
Folks,there is a farm paper called The Western Producer and in that paper is a list of farms for sale.Buy one,live the good life and just float to prosperity.O,by the way,make sure that you know a banker with lots of money to lend,have an aversion to holidays and vacations,like working at an extra job and have a very understanding wife that is willing to work to buy the groceries.
My god, you are a troll, dp.
You talk a half-decent game, but it’s obvious you’re just all that — talk.
I’ll take any 70-yr-old farmer on the prairies and guarantee he’s tougher than you are. And I don’t even know you. I don’t have to.
Of course, you say that the farmers in the maritimes don’t whine… well, that makes them the only ones in the whole region who don’t then, I guess…
You folks that think that the farms are’nt regulated enough maybe the production of food should be taken over by the government as medical care was.Maybe some folks should read a little Russian history and find out what happened there when they took over food production.Think twenty first century,move to North Korea.
Those talking about relying on China for food … have you read the labels on canned goods lately? I do now, since I began seeing “China” on all sorts of canned food … and even frozen food.
Next time you’re enjoying those nice smoked oysters … chekc the label.
spike 1:
Never give the government any ideas. What may be absurd to you, is a bonanza for a politician looking for a star to ride.
do wheat farmers in the maritimes risk everything and a spot in the big house if they sell their grain to whoever they want?
importing food from China. people! are your \sarc functions worn out?? didn’t we cover this last year? with the great melamine in the rice fiasco?
it’s kinda topical that President Viktor Yushchenko is here in Canada this week, maybe the NDP in Winnipeg could ask him his opinion of government involvement in food production, remembering from 1930 – 1933 for example. I understand he’ll be visiting there… I believe it’s a bit of a sore spot for anyone with a ukrainian heritage.
and I’m not of their heritage, but I was certainly proud for them, to see them stand up for new found freedoms, during their orange revolution.
(welcome to Canada President Yushchenko)
Human nature to be greedy.
Super tankers, super sized hog farms and Cargill are products of greed.
The bigger the project, the higher the profits and the more severe the pollution.
Invest in water purification. Its a booming business. Modern filtration and treatment can do wonders and more is needed every day.
** BioShaft Water Technology (BSHF) announced a stunning $56 million contract stating **…its patented technology…has been selected as the sole provider of 13 domestic wastewater treatment plants in the municipality of Baghdad in Iraq.**
http://www.bioshaft.com/
=================== BioShaft
= TG
sda is NOT a place for ‘pump n’ dump’.
I don’t know TG, anything (especially a stock tip)with the word “Shaft” in it I would be worried about.
Back on topic: I firmly believe that in today’s world the quintessential family farm is history. The lack of ability to bring sufficient quantities of product to market combined with artificial market factors such as CWB and various marketing boards and quotas has helped do in Mr Douglas’ “Green Acres”. I guess the same can be said about fishermen. Love of the land or sea just doesn’t cut it when it comes to putting food on the table, let alone building a retirement plan.
Pardon me, but treating water is exactly on topic.
The one thing that can mitigate the effects of superscale agri-business.
Not a stock tip at all. Only one example of an important but largely invisible essential industry.
GE owns the most advanced water purification patents derived from a McGill professor who sold out to them for million$.
He should have put them into public domain for the world*s benefit.
BTW, careful where you invest. The US$ is heading south. = TG
TG:
So you are saying that the prof should have not profitted from the tech by putting them in the public domain just moments after you recommend we buy a certain stock? Do you see your hypocrisy.
And in my experience (28 yrs) in dealing in the ag sector across NA – generally the larger the operation the (much) better both in terms of the environment and safety. ONLY large scale high-intensity livestock production can be almost 100% self-contained for water and produce zero effluent using biogas technology to create CH4 for power and clean the waste water back to potable for livestock quality.
I agree with dp on a few of his points:
1. the ag sector gets a free pass on a lot of environmental stuff compared to the rest of the business community.
2. the hutterites do contribute big-time to the economy. However the ones I know are very good land stewards – certainly no worse than many of the non-hutterites. Their facilities seem uniformly spic and span too.
3. farm work environments are amoung the least safe of all – the fishery and mining are probably the only ones worse – the injury stats don’t lie(and I think mining has greatly improved its track record of late).