More… uh…. foreign policy specifics…
But “if we are going to isolate the Venezuelans, it may be that we have to engage in a full-on diplomatic strategy with them,” the adviser says. Obama was not saying he, himself, would propose such a meeting, nor that he would necessarily participate in that meeting. When Obama referred to “my talks with President Hugo Chavez,” he did not mean “my talks,” literally (necessarily) — he meant his administration’s talks — “though it could be him engaging in this diplomacy directly and personally,” the adviser says. The point is, all the tools need to be in the diplomacy kit — isolation, willingness to hold presidential meetings, and everything in between.
And on his lack of military service;
I didn’t serve as many people my age because Vietnam was over by the time I was of draft age and we had then moved to an all volunteer army.
Whew, that was a close one! Because, as we all know, the ultimate cowardice when up against a Vietnam vet for the office of President is to have run for the safety of one of these;
h/t and video
” … he did not mean “my talks,” literally (necessarily)”
And to that, we can believe he is not literally (necessarily) really the democratic candidate for President. Who is?
“I didn’t serve as many people my age because Vietnam was over by the time I was of draft age and we had then moved to an all volunteer army”….Obama
With the confusion that Obama has with possessive words like I, my and we this might mean anything.
Consider the candidate that people are comparing to JFK and remember this…. “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”
There seems to be a big disconnect, but I guess thats the socialist’s way. Unlike McCain.
A link>/a> at the link talks about George W Bush.
” Even in peacetime conditions, F-102 pilots risked their lives on every flight. Only highly-qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes”
“Jeez. The lousy damn coward. He went and hid in a unit, one which had active service members actually in Vietnam, one where the death rate in training and peacetime from accident alone was damn nearly the same as active service in Vietnam for all troops. Sheesh.”
I am not sure about this but did Bush Sr serve?
And what about Ronald R? Dick C?
If I am wrong I apologize.
When Obama sits down with the leader of Iran, Castro and Hamas he is going to discover that just because he is black it wont mean a darn thing to them.
Bush Sr. flew a Dauntless dive bomber during W11. On an attack, he was shot down and bailed out.
totally off topic. The Kingston Whig Standard. a local newspaper, is at the bottom of a link for Rush Limbaugh. I can’t connect to the link to get Rush. Do you see problem with this? I sure as hell do. You all know I use lower case letters for my brief comments. Can anyone link and tell me if I am just stupid. No, yes you are stupid comments will not be appreciated
Right of centre,
Ronald Reagan: US Army Air Corps (Captain, 1942-45)
G H W Bush: US Navy 1942–45
Dick Cheney did not serve.
it is sad. most people have courage. mr obama has none. he is a consruct. i am not sure who is behind him or supporting him, to be sure it is a sociaist of some sort.
Does O’bummer actually believe that South Americans and Muslims to name two large sectors of Earth’s population, hold Negroes in high esteem?
His credibility with those groups will nothing more than as ‘useful idiot’. The only place you can play the race card is in the USA, Europe and Canada. All others will look down him as a genetic inferior.
His genetics are probably as good as anyone’s but there is no denying he not very bright. He should have done military service just to prove he is smart enough to know that it would look good on his presidential resume.
r of c. w served as a reserve ( our country’s national guard) w was a jet pilot. he is an honorable man. he is not a conservative. maybe this does not make him an honorable man. he is certainly more conservative than our currnet government. what does one do to replace a government that does not reflect the whishes of the people who voted for that government.
Loved the McCain clip at Five Feet of Fury
PRICELESS!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht
Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Help, again! What exactly is a “full on” diplomatic strategy? If “tough” diplomacy is, I assume, diplomatic notes in all capital letters, is full on diplomacy diplomatic notes with photos? Full on photos? Ahhh, maybe, full frontal photos? Something that would cause the recipient to beg us to stop. Hmmmmm, maybe Hillary would be the stronger candidate on the foreign policy file.
Right of centre,
Bush Sr. and Reagan both served. B Senior was actually in combat.
Junior was a reservist. If you were from a wealthy privileged background in those draft days, and didn’t want to actually fight, you either claimed an educational deferrment (Clinton, Cheney, etc.) or you joined the reserves (Bush Jr). But Junior did get Daddy to get him out of service commitments in order to avoid combat by having Junior work on some Republican election campaigns. Never close to war. Though, somewhat to his credit, he did sign up unlike Clinton.
Cheney was drafted several times but pulled strings and deferred several times, doing what he could to avoid service to his country. Like a lot of the so-called warhawks in Bush’s cabinet who never served in combat.
Interestingly and tellingly, the last Canadian to have served in the Canadian military in any capacity was Pearson who was not even really in a combat position. Canadians seem to prefer lifelong professional politicians like Harper and Chretien; Americans want some proven governing or life experiences, most often as governor or (increasingly rarely) military command.
geez, Obama is worse then Bernier.
Obama could have enlisted as a volunteer.
Hmmm … the F102 was a damned dangerous aircraft from all I’ve heard. Survival of the pilot was NOT a consideration. And George W. not only flew them, he instructed in them.
George H. was the youngest naval aviator in US history. He was shot down in combat, was rescued, and eventually flew 58 combat missions.
Lester Pearson was trained as a fighter pilot in WWI. He was injured in training and never reached France.
The most distinguished soldier to hold a senior position in the Canadian government after, say, the Korean War was Gen. Georges Vanier, who was the Governor General for several years overlapping Pearson as PM. Gen. Vanier won the MC, the DSO, and bar to the MC, and lost a leg, in WWI.
Gen. Vanier then embarked on a distinguised career as a diplomat. He is of course the father of Jean Vanier.
Ted,
You are getting behind the times.
The Party Doctrine that one must have served to have an opinion on the War was part of the Kerry campaign. The AnO!nted O!ne has not had military service, so it now reverts to “peaceniks only need apply”. You should update your links; failure to follow a doctrine switch is grounds for purging.
Regards,
Ric
CNN aired a special biography on Bush Sr.’s combat experience. By some stroke of luck someone actually had footage of his rescue after being shot down in the battle of Midway.
Bush Sr. flew a DAUNTLESS! ~S~
I don’t know which posters on this site have served and which haven’t but to those who haven’t would they feel any less honourable or capable to lead than say somebody who did?
First of all guys, let’s get our military history straight.
The Devastator was the torpedo bomber flown at Midway — and suffered terribly. The Dauntless was the dive bomber — the “Speedy Bee”. Bush Sr. didn’t fly either of those and wasn’t at the battle of Midway. Bush Sr. flew the Avenger, a torpedo bomber that replaced the Devastator and that could be configured for ground attack, and it was on such a mission that Bush Sr. was shot down, well after the battle of Midway.
Right of centre, you make a solid point. I spent nine years in the CF myself, but one needn’t have served in the military to lead the country, and many very capable men have led who never served. It isn’t an issue to me unless someone has deliberately avoided it, either as a regular or a reservist, or has taken to trashing their comrades in arms on the basis of dubious claims. FDR was a good wartime leader. Disability kept him out of the armed services. Likewise, Reagan was relegated to a support position for medical reasons but was an excellent President. Carter skippered a submarine, but was hopeless as a President. Personally, I can’t get too excited by Obama’s record of military service or lack thereof. Military and political leadership don’t consistently overlap.
Bit tacky of you Kate. George W. Bush did serve as a reserve and that counts as serving your country. He also didn’t write himself up for purple hearts either (nor have sexual relations with that woman). In the US of A, reserves get a lot more respect and recognition than those in Canada.
The media frenzy about his service is about as meaningful as Canadian MSM’s breaking stories about the latest Tory scandal, as in much ado about nothing.
btw, I did 22 years for Queen and country.
DrD: Please, let’s not go, er, overboard, on Jimmuh. He served on surface and diesel subs, but never commanded anything; he resigned from the Navy in 1953 with the rank of Lieutenant. He had put in some time studying nuclear technology in anticipation of service on the first generation of nuclear subs then either on the drawing board or actually being built, but none were in service at the time he resigned, and he had neither the record nor the rank to warrant consideration for a command post. His resignation was due to the illness of his father; he took over and ran the family business, hence his boast when running for political office that he was a “nuclear engineer turned peanut farmer.” Truth was never Jimmuh’s long suit. I lived in Georgia when he was governor; trust me, I have cause to know.
Military experience is not a plus in a Canadian politician. Ticket to insanity and an early grave, you ask me.
In the military you learn how to get your job done as fast and as well as possible. As an officer you learn how to lead your troops in same, so that when you and your lads show up the enemy gets defeated, -every-single-time. You learn when to work with the internal bureaucracy and when to beat them with a stick until they cough up what you need.
The Canadian government isn’t about getting things done. Its about NOT getting them done, in the most convoluted and expensive manner possible. One does not work with bureaucrats, one gets worked upon by them. The sole purpose of the federal bureaucracy is to consume funds and grow. It doesn’t do anything else.
This is why most MPs are lawyers. IMHO.
Sen. Obama seems to be inferring that only a schmuck would serve in the American armed forces unless drafted. Yes, he does seem to be the perfect DemocRat, that’s what they all think.
Incidentally, Little Georgie the pampered, perfumed prince flew the Delta Dart, as Kate pictured. Here’s a little bit about it:
http://www.f-106deltadart.com/history.htm
Important to note, the Dart was not some cement truck too slow to get out of its own way. It was a friggin’ dangerous, touchy nightmare to fly and lots of guys got killed doing it. That’s when they were new. Bush was flying an old crappy one.
Ted, go read about the Dart before you start in slagging the George Man.
I think it’s a mistake to slight anyone who has served their country in the Military. I didn’t care for the treatment John Kerry received in the past election campaign. To his credit John McCain made statements publicly defending Kerry. It was my experience that anyone who flies as crew in a military aircraft can not get life insurance from a private insurance company, and I was denied coverage (no crew clause)for years after serving due to the possibility of getting recalled.
Anyone who serves literally puts their life on the line. I don’t care, even if it’s in the postal corps. (They have been targeted by terrorists.)
As for leadership: military service at least proves you have some ability. Compare that to a Lawyer who ran a one paper basket Law office before winning election. Good looking, thick curly hair, great speaker, often dismal performance as a political leader.
Ronald Reagan: US Army Air Corps (Captain, 1942-45)
Yes, during those years the war criminal Reagan served in such hotspots as Frisco, Culver City, Burbank and NYC.
But Obama’s got nothing on the chickenhawk brigade, of which not only Cheney but Bill “I’ll f***ing do it live” O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rove, etc., etc. are members…you know, all the small dead heroes.
“Sen. Obama seems to be inferring that only a schmuck would serve in the American armed forces unless drafted.”
I think that is a leap of a conclusion.
So would you call a guy a schmuck who says he suports the troops but votes against the GI bill when it was endorsed but the Vetrans of Foreign Wars organization?
Yes, that plane Bush flew was not something for cowards or liars to undertake.
That’s why the Bush man had to go AWOL for a whole year to calm his nerves, poor guy.
“The Canadian government isn’t about getting things done. Its about NOT getting them done, in the most convoluted and expensive manner possible. One does not work with bureaucrats, one gets worked upon by them. The sole purpose of the federal bureaucracy is to consume funds and grow. It doesn’t do anything else.”
Right on, Phantom.
And the sooner people accept that the ‘system’ is the major problem here, not the ‘other guys’, we can take some steps to correct it.
IMO, partisan hacks and footsoldiers are themselves enablers for these multi-partied pigs at the trough.
As for US politics….
How can anyone watch these plastic people orating plastic words about plastic policies and not be afraid for the western world’s future?
^^^^^
I gotta gree with yah there a nation of 300 million and the best they can come up with is these people (on either side)
If it weren’t for Barrack it would be 2 families for the better part of 3 decades, that is just a veiled monarchy.
Thanks Megaera, I must admit I had been under the mistaken impression that Jimmuh had actually skippered a sub — a boomer at that. On your prompt, I reviewed his military service. You’re right of course. One of the great things about SDA is the level of knowledge and scholarship of most of the commenters. It’s an education.
You know manny, bolick (volick, right?) Bush is not one of my heroes, but if you two weren’t a pair of credulous Left wing fools he’d be one of yours.
Bush has presided over the largest expansion of the US government in history. It employs more people, spends more, does more and is growing bigger faster now than at any time ever before. You morons love government, you should be setting up SHRINES to this guy.
All I’m saying is George Bush had the balls to strap on an F-106, and an old wheezy one to boot. Whereas the good Senator Obama thinks an all-volunteer armed forces is a good reason to have never served in the military.
Bite down on that, geniuses.
Is there a Full Moon or something? The Loonies are really coming out tonight.
Please tell us the one about 9/11 being a Bush conspiracy again. I like that one.
Careful what you wish for Gunney, next manny will whip out the Dan Rather “evidence”. I’m pretty sure that’ll make me puke.
SO Phantom because I am not a fan of Bush or Mac I must be a left wing loonie who loves big goverment. With you proving how well you come to conclusions I can’t help but question any theory you do have.
Then you two clowns start throwing out 911 blame and Dan Rather you guys dont need me here you are having your own arguement.
Wow they should give out awards for generalizing an entire group of people.
I’ll save my conversation for those that discuss like adults.
Perhaps anger management as you just seem like angry liitle people who need to be heard.
Texas Canuck – I think you misread my intent with this post. Check the link.
Gee Phantom
You’r really running scared, huh? Dunno what you’re on about with all the ‘big government’ stuff — well, actually I do know – its purpose is to divert attention away from the fact that:
There was draft on when Bush was of age to fight (as there was not a draft when Obama had reached that age).
Bush used his father’s connections to keep him out of combat – and diddling around with that big plane you’re so (sexually) excited about. “Yeah, when other men were risking their lives in Vietnam,” you say, “Bush ‘had the balls’ to have his Dad keep him out of combat so he could tool around in this big, dangerous plane! OOOOhh!”
Then Bush ‘had the balls’ to go AWOL from the guard for over a year. His Dad had arranged a safe place for him to hide out from combat and Jr. even had to bail on that!
Bush might not be, as you say, one of your heroes, Phantom, but judging by your overreaching defence of him here, it seems you have a considerable mancrush on him.
Get a room!
I think Mac is on the losing side of this GI bill debate.
-It has the support of the Veterans of Foreign Wars
-The Military says it will lose 16% of their service personel but gain 16% back due to its appeal of benefits
-its support is lead by Haigle and Webb both war vets and GOP’s
-you can never win in politics when it is an emotional choice
-adjusted for inflation it is the same deal that was offered upon creation in ’44
-sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut and Obama is the squirrel
ROC, is your name bolik or manny? Save your outrage for when somebody actually insults you.
Unless you actually agree with bolic, of course. He (she? it?) just defaulted to the standard “I’ve got nothing” Leftist position, homosexual slurs. Nice, eh?
Hey bolic, you hideous troll, you do realize that the only “evidence” out there that Bush went AWOL is …wait for it… Dan Rather’s!
So bolic, what I want to know is when you stick your head that far up your butt, does it get really dark?
Uh, no…
That’s an F-106 “Delta Dart” Interceptor.
Hey phantom
Speculation as to whether one is a homosexual isn’t regarded as a ‘slur’ except by far-right zealots like yourself.
I was only making the speculation since you said Bush wasn’t your hero yet you go to such lengths trying to prove he has ‘balls’. If he’s not your hero then why go to such elaborate lengths? Hmmm.
There’s only one other alternative.
Relax. It’s an entirely natural way to be. It’s only the unsophisticated and the ignorantly bigoted who have a problem with it (i.e., the Right).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/12/uselections2004.usa2 – 63k –
Check out that link for some info on how Bush’s dad got him a cushy hideout during Vietnam – flying those planes you’re so impressed by, which were so old and obsolete that there was never a chance he’d be sent into combat to fight beside all the other Americans risking their lives (God forbid!).
As well, you’ll find information in there on Bush’s unaccounted yearlong disappearance from the Guard. He had ‘balls’ all right, Phantom. Service is for chumps anyway, right?
I can provide other links with the same info. You see, Phantom, outside of the 25%-Dead End Club, holed up in your bunker with your myriad of fantasies, sexual and otherwise, it’s common knowledge that Bush went AWOL.
Cheers.
Hey mojo, check your 6. A dart (F106) has a clipped vert stabilizer while a F-102 Delta daggar doesn’t.
bolik treats The Guardian as news?
You -are- an idiot.
I must bow to your superior knowledge, Texas Canuck sir. That is indeed a Delta Dagger, and is indeed the aircraft type Bush has hundreds of hours in. I thought George flew the 106 Dart. Shows what I know.
My respect for Bush goes up six notches, the Dagger was even twitchier, the Dart being the “upgraded” version.
My respect for the likes of manny and bolick likewise goes DOWN even quicker, this stuff is so easy to check on google its ridiculous.
To wit: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
I quote: “ANG members of the period who we’ve been able to locate indicate that only highly qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes. According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, and the rate was especially high during the early years of the plane’s service.”
13 and a half accidents per 100,000 hours? How bad is that? “Compared to the F-102’s lifetime accident rate of 13.69, today’s planes generally average around 4 mishaps per 100,000 hours.” The AV-8B Harrier is the craziest plane in the US military at the moment, it clocks in at 11.
Bottom line, “Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots.”
So there you go, George was NOT in the safest place he could possibly be, he didn’t die so he was NOT an idiot, and he personally knew guys who died flying that plane while he was flying it so he was NOT a coward.
Please note, this is an aircraft history site, not some America hating Lefty propaganda rag from England. Five second google search. You people suck.
Phantom
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/02/05/bushs_guard_service_what_the_record_shows/ – 37k –
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7372-2004Feb2?language=printer
None of these will make a bit of difference, I know, because they’re not nestled within the racist sputterings of Little Green Footballs or some other vomit pit. They’re from the ‘liberal media’ right? What difference do they make to you and the 25% Dead Enders Club in the bunker?
Does your weewee get hard when you call people ‘idiot’, etc., Phantom? Not like when the Decider puts on his flightsuit but still…
Oh, by the way, that plane that so impresses you was obsolete at the time your Feurher flew it and so further guarded him from the possibility he’d actually end up in the jungles of Vietnam.
Well, so it is, Tex. My bad.
And as far as I know, few strategic interceptor pilots wound up in the jungles of Viet Nam. Even those mightily feared jet jocks of the TNG.
Go figure.
So, bolus-er, bolik – how many tours did you do?
Don’t know how many of you clicked on the link Kate provided, or bothered to read the entire essay, but towards the end there is a link to a fantastic piece of animation showing civil aviation in America. It is, in its own way, quite awe inspiring.
http://users.design.ucla.edu/~akoblin/work/faa/Documentationl2.html