I've hammered this point home with a number of people in uniform, but I fear not with enough, and not with those senior enough to make a difference: every single mission the CF wants to undertake is critically dependent upon domestic public support.You want to retain our maritime command and control capability interfacing with our allies, even if it's with a jack-of-all-trades ship instead of more specialized hulls for different missions? Educate the public, or the money just won't come. You think new strike fighters are at the very least what Canada needs, a compromise between an air-defence fighter and a dedicated CAS aircraft? You won't get them without telling Canadians why they need them. You want to put the myth of peacekeeping to bed once and for all so that you have the mandate, the equipment, and the manpower to take on the new fourth-generation warfare of this century? Make sure your public, the ones who elect your civilian superiors and pay your bills with their tax dollars know enough to make educated decisions about defence.
A message that is especially relevant in a nation where a good number of the political and chattering classes are intent on keeping us in the dark, or are mired in it themselves.
nothing from the government side of the house. only from the yakkity jack and borat dion.
maybe the old guard liberal snivel servants will chime in next.
same full opposition coverage at CBCpravda.
Name one major conflict/war with no casualties?
Would deaths be tolerated in Darfur? I think the opposition from the left is more location than cause. They see it as Bush's war therefore we must oppose. Yet according to the left we should be in Darfur. What would happen then under mounting deaths?
The Taliban count heavily on the likes of Taliban Jack Layton and the Lib's Stephane Dion and Canadian MSM as their allies in Canada.
Useful idiots to divide and weaken the resolve of Canadian public.
The thing is, Layton talks about Canada's being 'an expert in peacemaking'; that 'Canada is known around the world' for its peacemaking activities.
What on earth does that mean? Is there a special 5-step process to instill peace amongst, eg, terrorists, amongst fighting tribes intent on killing each other? And Canadians have expertise in this? How is it that we don't know these five steps? How is it that they aren't broadcast all around the world? What are they?
Ahh- and then, Layton comes up with the real reason for his rhetoric; he's after the soft vote, the left votes in the possible by-elections.
Same with Dion; they are after votes. Not what's good for the country, not what's good for the world. Just what's good for their political ambitions.
At least that's clear.
Perfect analysis ET, on vote getting by Taliban Jack and dual citizen Dion.
How long before even the least gullible will twig onto and reject the terrorist appeasing Taliban Jack and Stephane Dion?
I am totally disgusted with Talaban Jack the Quack Layton.I would love to see him sent directly to the front lines with his tea pot and a typwriter to hammer out a deal so he can show the world how diplomacy is achieved.
He could wear his blue barret, while outfitted with rubber bullets, and a bicycle. For that matter, he should also bring Dawn Black , and Alexa Mc don't know so that they can all show us how it's done.These Quacks think that you can run a perfect war against Tyrants who have no reguard for their our Children lives , much less the life of a slimey politician. He might as well bring toilet paper to hammer out his deal , because the only thing it would be good for is to wipe his ass with it when he's done.
Trying to make a referendum issue on the Afghan war in the upcoming byelection is disgraceful to the democratic process.So now apparently , one or 2 seats should determine how we conduct our foreign policy and effect our charter status with all our NATO allies. Who in Gods world would trust Canada in any future combative conflict ,if we where to bail out of this long standing multilateral international alliance.
I don't hear the heroic military personel , who stand to lose the most complain about our mission. I only see a pile of whining squalling crybaby whusses , who in the comfort and freedom of their armchairs rail on a mission that has brought tremendous gains.
- A newly Democraticly elected Government
- A Constitution
- Women granted freedom to vote , and go to school.
- Trained Military personel
- Trained Policing forces
- Roads and Schools build , and the list goes on
Is everything perfect , absolutely not , I have never seen the perfect war unfold. Bailing out on whats been achieved however is not the solution on many fronts including national security , and on foreign affairs with our Allies.
Timothy Coderre
Dion, Layton, and the CBC will continue to be the "useful idiots" in the truest sense, promoting that hands are indeed only, for helping. There version of "Bizarro" has world has army's that don't fight, they monitor, they abate all conflicts by having sing songs, and waving a magic Jack Layton approved triangle, through "consultation" with people that want you dead because you don't believe in the twisted version of the deity they worship. It's all in the text book, see?
All we need now is the media spot light pigs, Denis Corderre, David Orchid and their ilk too have the CBC or CTV it's almost as bad tell us they are right for doing so.
"Retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis Mackenzie said that casualties must be accepted if Canada believes in the importance of the Afghanistan mission.
"But he added that unless NATO offers Canada more support in southern Afghanistan, the chaotic region where Canadian troops have endured much of the fighting, then the mission should not be extended.
"'If NATO doesn't get off its butt and countries that aren't participating don't start showing up in numbers, and start increasing the number of troops in the south ... then I won't be at the head of the line in 2009 saying we should stay,' he told CTV Newsnet."
GET BIG OR GET OUT!!
More Canadian casualties is not surprising given that this is really a war but it is still hard for friends and family. It goes without saying that condolences go out to those affected. Such is the job and duty of Canada's soldiers, sailors and airmen.
Unfortunately, I've just listened to the crap from Taliban Jack and CTV's discussion with MPs (no government MPs though, must be the CTV "fair and balanced" approach). I am truly embarassed and disgusted at this stupidity and even more embarassed of the MSM reporting.
From the third largest navy at the end of WWII to a yacht club that has to wait for next budget to get fuel to cross the harbour; Canada's military is an annoyance to a lot of Canadians who feel the too few dollars spent on defense could be better used building basketball courts. The world isn't going to get any friendlier and Canada needs a huge infusion of money to just catch up from the years of neglect. Canada is the only country that I know of that insist that everything they purchase must be used for a dozen different uses. And we buy a dozen of them never expecting any of them to break or crash. You can insert plane, ship or vehicle into the previous sentence, it doesn't matter.
Yacht club? I think the call has to go into the West Ed Mall to get the subs released back into service! Canada, as a country has to have the intestinal fortitude to re equipped its forces across the board, and cannot lack the perseverance of national character too get it done. This is going to be really expensive, and far worse if it doesn't get done, many many facets have to be addressed, Manpower increases, transports, logistics, and military firepower. As well as a decent living wage, and housing these personal richly deserve.
I can't help but think that the Taliban make a point of singling out our troops for attack. We've suffered proportionally higher losses than any other NATO country.
The Taliban must be aware of the controversy in Canada. If Canada withdraws they would score an enormous propaganda triumph and be able to declare they had driven us out. Taliban Jack and Citoyen Dion are making it more dangerous for our troops in Afghanistan by crying "withdraw" every time we take casualties. I'm sure we're viewed as the political weak link in the chain.
Peace negotiations? This displays an appalling ignorance of the enemy we face. The Taliban have been refusing any negotiation since 2001.
I agree with the point made about Darfur.
My position has always been--why pull them out of a dangerous mission just to send them into another dangerous mission . Let them stay where they are and get the job done.
I don't say this lightly, since my husband is currently serving in Afghanistan, and I am not saying this is easy--but a place like Darfur would be no easier.
(just my thoughts)
Ann
Peacekeeping - the great Canadian identity myth.
For once I agree with lberia, assuming he means what he says with "Go big or get out." For example, Layton's interpretation of this is "Go small and get out." Just what does Layton base his argument on when he says we must have comprehensive peace with Taliban. What signals has that group sent to indicate there is any point to peace talks? What would be their terms - get out so we can brutalize the population? BTW, why should "we" negotiate with the Taliban? What is their legitimacy? They represent only 20% (seized power with Pakistani help) of Afghan population, so they in no way represent Afghans.
Go big - seal off border, seize opium crop, get way more troops in there (out of Iraq into Afghanistan is fine with me) - or get out.
But, lberia, you don't announce today you are going in 2009, nor do you ensure proper resources are not there to get above job done, then claim mission is failure and we must leave, as Layton does.
Dion's announce withdrawal now position is incomprehensible. As for him saying Liberals will not support support beyond 2009, without all the facts now (maybe other nations will step up to plate, just maybe) - just what are the chances he will still be Liberal leader by Feb 09. Slim and none, IMO.
Like I said, lberia, unless our allies step up to the plate, how can we continue to go this alone after 09? As for those who don't think we should have ever gone, they can go s**w themselves, those useful idiots.
I suggest that instead of pissing money away on the military we increase the money we throw at the homeless in toronto, 40 G's a year is a pitance, 80 G's a year would be a far fairer waste....erm, pitance
LewMac makes a good point. The other NATO countries the UK excepted need to get with teh program.
The Germans, for example, aren't allowed out at night . . . kinda limits the utility of the fighters.
GYM, every country has an army, theirs or someone elses. Besides, without the military, who's going to shovel the snow in T.O.? Why am I wasting key strokes on a troll? They do look cute in the garden though.
We interviewed Mr. Layton on ouw show - very revealing.
Audio link here:
http://www.am770chqr.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=14163
Did I recently read that some Iranian weapons, including explosives, were intercepted entering Afganistan?
Iberia: I agree with the general concept you suggest. By "Go Big", I understand that you agree with General Mackenzie in his obvious disgust that "most" of our NATO "allies" refuse to get dirty. Canada, the UK, and the USA, along with a few others including the Diggers are doing all of the heavy lifting. The others can hardly be called allies.
And, I do agree that by 2009 we need to see a significant increase in NATO forces in the South ... so far it's the anglo nations who are doing the bleeding ... while those like the Germans drive around, go shopping in markets, and strut uselessly. Caveats will destroy the NATO alliance if this keeps up. The "NATO" effort is becoming a farce ... with the likes of France and German finger wagging and offering endless advice yet refusing to even send their special forces to the South.
ET: Exactly my thoughts ... getting elected or holding onto what few seats some have at the expense of all else is the new way it would seem. If I were the Taliban, I'd be hammering Canadians for all I'm worth ... it's the Canucks who have the most vocal boobs getting the most air on a pacifist MSM.
Since warfare is all about the "will" to prevail, I blame Jack Layton the Dion directly and personally for the out-of-proportion number of attacks on Canadians; the Taliban are not fools, and they know that this war is all about "will". Layton and Dion could suck the will out of a rock to remain a solid. As a parent of a CF lad, they disgust me more than most any human slime I've known.
An interesting commentary from Scott Taylor:
"Let's not employ Canadian spirit in vain"
3w.espritdecorps.ca/On%20target%20070702.htm
Western Europe not carrying their NATO weight --- I am getting tired of it.
Saved their butts many times last century and now in this one ---- getting tired of it.
Having them preach their morals to us, kyoto-like-colonialism ----- tired of that.
They are closer to Afghanistan than Canada is.
Dion, Layton and all are perfect idiots alright, but Canada cannot carry the can for our "allies" forever.
Scott Taylor is a leftist, moonbat appeaser. Taliban Jack and the CBC have more credibility. We must continue to pour troops into Afghanistan unquestioningly until the mission is completed.
If Jack Layton were around in 1944:
"This simply underlines, with this escalating death toll of the soldiers and of civilians in Normandy, that this mission is going in the wrong way."
leaving an islamic government in charge will perpetuate the problem. i've said it many times islam is the problem. at what point will we consider the taliban subdued? after we chase them into pakistan and kill them there? tailban, islam , sunni, islam, shia, islam. this will not go away.
Taliban Jack: "A comprehensive peace process must include all combatants, all elements, all countries involved in the region with international leadership," Layton told a press conference in Ottawa Wednesday.
"Canada is an expert in this area. We used to be known globally for our expertise in this area. I believe it's time for Canada to get back on that path ..."
This is yet another self-gratifying and ignorant myth that Canadians have about the country. I challenge anyone to name any "peace process" in the last 30 years in which Canada played a truly major role, and especially to name any such process we even participated in that actually produced peace. Other than dealing with arms decommissioning in N. Ireland which was done by an individual Canadian, not formally acting as a government representative.
Which leads to the bright idea--the government might nominate Mr Layton to talk to the Taliban, in his personal capacity, and offer him transportation to the NWFP.
Mark
Ottawa
Taliban Jack Layton is a left wing closet communist, coward and terrorist appeaser.
He does not speak for me.
And thanks to Rob Breakenridge for finally taking the leftist blowhard to task on the issue of the good and noble work that is being done by Canadian forces.
Freedom does not come by appeasement, but by sacrifice.
Like the terrorist cleric in Pakistan caught while hiding in a woman's BURKA, Jack Layton is hiding his Taliban sympathies under the guise of "let's stop killing civilians"
He reminds me exactly of the leftist commie sympathizers in Canada during the "ban the bomb" peacenik marches.
I am working for a company on the west coast building 100' patrol vessels for the R.C.N. (eight of) These are the first purpose built vessels I can remember in my working life. I am 58. We once were a force to be reconed with> Our men and women serving in our -ARMED FORCES- need the equipment and tools to do the job they have the will,the money wasted buying flags in china,would have made a good start on a frigate. Hear me Lieberal lefty layton apoligsts.
Bubba the hard working Boilermaker wrote this
Layton and Dion beleive our military purpose should be limited to handing out food hampers by men and women dressed in army fatigues.
RL, you forgot shovelling snow and sandbagging. Canadian military will be known globally for our expertise in these areas. That is if Taliban Jack gets his way. I kind of prefer that Canada be known for Ypres, Somme, Vimy, Ortona, Juno, Battle of the Atlantic, Battle of Britian, Kapyong and hundreds of other battlefields where they made the ultimate sacrifice for freedom, rather than the the army that got called home because of armchair generals didn't want to play anymore. Where is the Devil's Brigade when you need them?
Jack Layton. In bed with the Taleban
I normally welcome the sage words of General Lew and he is correct in what he says this time too. The Canadians, Americans, Brits and Dutch are doing the heavy lifting and we need help from the rest of NATO. However, let's not forget the 70s and 80s when Canada was the NATO laggard and we ignored repeated requests and demands that we do our fair share. I'm certainly ashamed at Canada's penchant for letting the other NATO countries do the heavy lifting throughout the 70s and 80s and the job the troops are doing in Afstan today does much to reduce that feeling of shame.
The worm turns. Perhaps we should realize it's our turn for some grunt work.