Tommy Douglas Watch: From Hippocratic Oath to Hypocritic Oaf

I believe Jack had the hernia operation several years back, and according to Dr. Brian Day, formerly chief heart surgeon at Vancouver General, Paul Martin,Jean Chretien, Buzz hargrove, and Joe Clark have all opted for private heath care, when necessary. Anyone with the means will do the same.

My son has waited for three years to have an MRI, if I made the money that the four politicians above do, I'd pay the thousand bucks for a private care scan for him, too.

What's the big deal here. This is Canada. We have Elites running the show and at the trough. This is normal. Why would this even be reported? It's not like anything is about to change.

Perhaps we should all be happy we can actually get any medical care at all. I mean we pay well over half of our incomes for the privilege of living here. We shouldn't take our privileges for granted like our leaders do. We are much better than that.

I agree Yanni, it just seems quite hypocritical to view public health care as sacrosanct, while private is treason against Canadian values, then to turn around and use it when the public system is inconvenient.

If Furious George Smitherman gets his **** stuck in a rut, do you think he will wait in line like the rest of us mortals?

"I'd pay the thousand bucks for a private care scan for him, too."

But would you do so while trying to deny that privilege to others? Here are some excerpts from Layton's speech as posted on the NDP site on March 13, 2007:

"Those who came before us, fought to introduce Medicare.

And I believe that it is our generation’s duty to not only protect it - but to launch the next phase of Medicare in order to strengthen it.

That effort starts by the tackling the greatest threat to public health care today - privatization.

Not only does private care run counter to the values that average Canadians hold – it’s more expensive for governments, patients and businesses.

Tommy said that public health care would be a more cost-effective way to insure the entire population than private care.

And he was right."

...

"But despite the social and economic benefits of public care, we see a proliferation of private, for-profit health care cropping up across Canada.

And public money is fuelling it.

According to the federal government’s own figures, payments from provincial health plans to private for-profit facilities for insured services increased by a whopping 375% between 2000 and 2004. And those stats don’t include Ontario, Quebec and Alberta.

And Ottawa is turning a blind eye.

In 2004, Paul Martin handed over to Ralph Klein, Gordon Campbell, Jean Charest and the other premiers $41 billion for health care without one string attached concerning public money going to private care.

Penalties leveled by the federal government on provinces for violations to the Canada Health Act have fallen dramatically. Between 1994 and 2004 the amount Ottawa fined the provinces for violating the Canada Health Act dropped by 93%.

Yet today there are 14 private surgical clinics operating for-profit in BC, and 8 in Quebec.

There are 36 private MRI clinics in 5 provinces.

A year-and-a-half ago, entrepreneur Don Copeman opened a "family medical clinic" in Vancouver charging $1,200 up front and $2,300 a year, promising better access to health care for those who can pay for it.

He plans to open 37 more facilities across Canada in the next five years.

It’s not just money being diverted – it’s talent as well - doctors, nurses and technical staff.

Over the past few years, an astounding 101 doctors have left the Quebec public health system for the private system.

And taxpayers are rightfully asking – exactly how much of their hard earned tax dollars are being siphoned to the for-profit health care system in Canada?

The federal government can’t tell us because they aren’t keeping track, despite their mandate to do so.

The federal government itself, the fifth largest jurisdiction providing health care, is actively fostering privatization. Of the $630 million dollars annually it spends on health care for the military, RCMP and in the corrections system, the Canada Health Act does not apply.

How can the federal government act as the guardian of the Canada Health Act when it itself is purchasing services from private care providers?

But there is good news. As concerns mount, so do the efforts to combat privatization.

A Quebec group comprised of health authorities, community groups, and trade unions called Solidarité Santé has formed to in part to ensure that quote "the federal government’s finances be hinged upon the important principles upon which the universal health care system is based."

And last May, the Canadian Doctors for Medicare was formed. Their mission? To "provide a voice for Canadian doctors who believe in and support Canada's publicly funded system for physician and hospital care, and who reject private insurance and direct payment for these medically necessary services."

It has been that said if privatization were a disease, it would need early detection and treatment.

And my friends, let me tell you, privatization is curable."

--

Read the entire speech here:

http://www.ndp.ca/page/4999

"If Furious George Smitherman gets his **** stuck in a rut"

Good point. And he's just the man to get his **** stuck in a "rut", so to speak.

Surprised??
Public Health care is just for ..... well you know.....the public!

In the immortal words(?) of Nelson Munch: HAH! HAH!

Layton's speech sounds more like an impassioned defence for - unionized (public delivered) health care.

If the public system pays for it, does it really matter who actually provides it, as long as proper standards are maintained.

Apparently, for some, it does.

As Canadians we have more pressing needs ; socialised daycare , long gun registries , Quebec ( sorry Chucker ) , SSM , the CBC ..... hold on ... Holy crap , we're screwed ...

MSM has to finally acknowledge and report on Taliban Jack Layton and his hypocrisy regarding private health care in Canada.

Dr. Brain Day, head of the Canadian medical Association has pointed out to Canadians
the high profile Canadians willing to jump the queque to get medical attention from privately operated clinics.

Buzz Hargrove, Jack Layton, Paul Martin, Jean Chretien all mentioned, yet all opposed ordinary Canadians to have that access.

Thanks Dr. Day for shoving that front and centre
into the domain of MSM.

Something that was old news on the internet many months ago.

I don't have a problemn with anyone using private healthcare. But if someone is going to vilify it in one breath and then use it in another, then I'm sorry folks - that is called hypocricy.

I believe Taliban Jack went to the Shoudice Clinic east of Toronto where they do hernia operations exclusively. They do them under OHIP however, they are very good at it and are able to produce a high quality service, bill OHIP and still make a profit. Much of the talk of privatizing medicine in Canada is talk about taking this kind of example and expanding it.
The fact that many health professionals are opting out of public medicine is in some part a reflection of the marketplace - public health care is a piecework profession where quality of service isn't rewarded.
Additonally, every one of us who has supplemental health care insurance through our place of employment is participating in the private health care system.
So on this one Taliban Jack is twice a hypocrite.
It's time for clowns like Layton to can the rhetoric and for Canadians to honestly debate this issue. However, in the current poisoned political climate, where getting elected trumps honestly dealing with issues, that isn't about to happen any time soon.

We are so free here in Canada. We have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion. But, oddly, we have no freedom of health

http://imnotparanoid.blogspot.com/2007/01/youll-be-wrapped-around-my-finger.html

This is what Layton had to say about health care ....
Just last week! ...

Maybe he's just making sure he gets his share of that $20 Billion right now!!

I wish I had the power that Buzz Hargrove does. I mean getting an MRI within 24 hours? WOW! I had to wait 7 months. The hypocrisy of the Libranos never ceases to amaze.

Taliban Jack Off Notrades going to sholdice clinic is old news, reported front page by TO SUN over a year ago, the goof didn't even (or so he claimed) know it wuz a private clinic

Taliban Jack Off Notrades going to sholdice clinic is old news, reported front page by TO SUN over a year ago, the goof didn't even (or so he claimed) know it wuz a private clinic

I like how our Canadian Universal Health system doesn't consider my teeth and eyes to be part of my body and therefore private, for profit optometrists and dentists get a free pass from the Layton's of Canada.

Never mind the fact that these private dental and eye clinics haven't plunged us into US style health care misery... the poor still get glasses and fillings. Gosh!

Leftist moonbats like Layton gotta extricate their heads from their behinds. When are they going to wake up and realize that we need the kind of health care where one can die, bleeding, on an emergency room floor while dispatchers refuse to call paramedics or an ambulance to take one to another facility. All the way with LBJ.

Sean, me boyo, you need the wool pulled off your eyes. Here's how the health care system works in Canada:

If you're poor, unconnected, or without prestige, you wait at the end of the line. If you're rich, you fly to the US. If you have prestige (Martin, Chretien, pro athletes), you get treated right away. And, if you're connected - well, you get priority treatment. Let me share with you an example from my own life:

My mother-in-law lived in Windsor, Ont., and needed a knee replacement. Being a trusting soul in her 70's, she went to her GP, and was placed on a 2-year waiting list. It ended up being more than 2 years, but she finally got the transplant after years of pain. Now, it happened that her son, who had died of cancer a few years before, had been a highly respected doctor with contacts throughout the medical establishment. When she needed a transplant for her other knee a few years later, we remarked to a friend of ours that we hoped she could wait the (now) three years. "Three years?!" he said increduously. "Let me make some calls."

Within a month, she was seeing a top ortho in Toronto, and within six weeks of that, she was in surgery. As the ortho (who I will not identify) said to me in a remarkably candid aside, "I get paid the same from OHIP whether I do it for a stranger, or whether I do it for a friend. So why not let the friend skip the queue?".

Now, try to understand Sean: this is the rank, stinking hypocrisy of Canadian medicare. The upper middle class, connected through their golf and tennis clubs, kids at private schools, charity boards, etc., enjoy privileged access to the system WITHOUT PAYING A SINGLE DIME EXTRA. For them, it's the absolute best of both worlds.

You worry about resources being siphoned by private clinics? Maybe, but those clinics are also sucking demand out of the system. The "politics of pull" described above siphon resources for the connected, but without diminishing demand, thus pushing the poor and unconnected farther to the back of the pack.

This is why the upper reaches of the Liberals and NDP and Bloc (and some Tories, I'll admit), preach against changes to Medicare. They know they get all the advantages of being a rich American without having to be a rich American. They will fight tooth and nail to preserve this system where they get the best of both worlds.

Wake up, Sean. This type of queue-jumping goes on every single day. Defending it just means you are defending the special access for the rich and powerful, in the name of "equal access for all". You seem to be smart enough to see through this BS.

I will concede this is a delicate subject. Let me assure everyone I do not wish to be rude. I saw where there was a complaint from an ordinary Canadian citizen about ten years ago. He had mentioned that he had bleeding when he when to the toilet. I know that this is an absolutely first priority. Go to your doctor right away, is recomended. The complainent said that it would be six months before he could obtain the requisite exam.

A columnist for a Toronto base newspaper, not the Star, said in reference to this.

"I am sure that if Bob Rae had the same problem he would not wait six months to have someone look up into his bottom".

Ah true, how very very true ( as the late Peter Sellars would sayP

Peter: " A columnist for a Toronto base newspaper, not the Star, said in reference to this.

"I am sure that if Bob Rae had the same problem he would not wait six months to have someone look up into his bottom". "

OK, I have to share this - when Rae was premier, I had a similar problem, and did get in to see a procto. To put it mildly, I was mightily embarrassed to drop trousers, and bend over the table, especially in front of his highly attractive nurse. The doc says to me "Everything OK?" to which I reply "Well, I'd rather it was Bob Rae here instead of me."

To which the attractive nurse replies "Oh, we'd love to get Bob Rae in here.".

There is nothing more disenfranchising than a government removing an individual's right to choose how they source their healthcare.

Think about this: we all take yearly vacations, right? Many Canucks blow $thousands to get away to warmer climates. But how many of you would, perhaps, forego that $2K or $3K trip to Florida or wherever if your MD felt your child or family member needed extensive tests, & you could expedite same by cancelling the trip & funding the MRI, CAT scan, or whatever?

What right does the government have to deny you this choice for you or your family? And why? So we get "equality"?

In this case, "equality" really means "equality of mediocre treatment". Face it: the wealthy will still spend this money for the tests, and simply go to the US. Why not fix the system so this cash stays in Canada?

Put it even more simply: why on earth can you pay for an MRI for your dog, but not your family member?

mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm

Socialists expect government to control the lives of others, not themselves.

Meanwhile, a family member of mine has waited 34 months to see a specialist. The wait was only supposed to be two years. Of course, if you wait long enough, you're dead, which is the best possible outcome from the healthcare delivery system's point of view.

Canada has a wonderful medical system -- it's the envy of the world -- it's great -- unless you get sick.

The fact that socialists would prevent free Canadians with money left over after paying all the various levels of taxation from using their money to pay for healthcare treatment outside of the state-sponsored-system is not just bad policy, it is evil.

I recently had to have an MRI done to check out my lumbar region spinal disks. My doctor said it was a 9-12 month wait, or he could refer me to a private clinic. I took the referral, called the clinic Friday morning and was booked in for Tuesday afternoon, well worth the $750.

The good news was that I was then booked to see the specialist within a month because I had an MRI done. If I had waited for the public system I would have another 7 to 10 months to wait.

By my use of the private system I have opened up one spot for someone who cannot afford to pay for an MRI. If more of us had the oportunity for private services, overall wait times should decrease.

kevinB.
I had to laugh- thanks. I live just across the St Mary's River from Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. Canadian Steelworkers did start a Group Health Centre way back, here in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. Me being one of them. 3000 of us had a $130 pay check off. Then they built it, this in the sixties.
I am lucky. That it functions is a tribute to all concerned.

On the radio across the river, they keep on putting the jingle. Womens voices "War Memorial Hospital. They cannot wait to welcome patients. They said they will take emergency patients from Canada for $70.

I am loyal to Canada myself. Surely there must be a common sense balance, in trying to make people understand that some payment should be in order. This comensurate with one's disposable income.
If something is "free" then over use and abuse will follow by some of the population.

This might be killing our Canadian system.

What, Jack was pregnant?

keep spinning....this was debunked long ago....

This hypocrisy is not new. PC bigwig Dalton Camp managed to get himself a heart transplant when he was 73 years old, becoming Canada's oldest heart transplant recipient. It bought him another 9 years.
How many years would it have bought a 30 year old?

Anyone who believes that having connections played no part in this, please contact me - I have some Bre -X stock you might be interested in.

Sean S,

What was debunked? and by who?

I had this argument at a public meeting with my local NDP MP. My argument was thus: 10 people are in a lineup for knee surgery, including myself. Like the others, in addition to my 'tax dollars' allocated for health care, I have paid my $980 annual Medical Services premium.

I decide that the $5,000 I might otherwise have spent on a holiday would be better spent regaining my mobility, so I leave the 'public lineup' and have the surgery done privately.

The question for my MP - how does my leaving the lineup cause unfairness to the 9 persons remaining in the lineup? Not only do they all have their wait time shortened, but my tax dollars and my medical premiums remain in the system for their own care. It's a win-win situation.

My NDP MP didn't have an answer, but she sure was good at obfusicating, changing the subject and running out the clock. Public health care, like all NDP inspired policy, is base on the politics of envy.

Sean S. is probably referring to the fact that the Shouldice was grandfathered under the Private Act and is a non-profit corporation. Except that they have standardized on only one particular type of hernia operation and all of the other, more difficult ones, are turned away. CUPE called this "cream-skimming" in a research paper and postulated that there was no reason their methods couldn't be incorporated into the public system.

People, people.

What's the problem here? As someone already mentioned, "public" health care is for the "public".

The "hoi polloi".

That's ordinary ninnies like you and me.

This is in line with all other edicts issued by the Great and the Good, whether Taliban Jack, or the likes of the increasingly creepy Al Gore, Sheryl "One Square" Crow and "A-Kid-Dies-Everytime-I-Snap-My-Fingers" Bono.

Jack was clear on this in the 2006 election and the facts are still important.

He was referred to the Toronto area Shouldice clinic by his doctor just like hundreds of Ontarians are each year. And he paid for the operation with his provincial health card.

No cue jumping. No credit card.

The Shouldice clinic is part of the public system in Ontario. As the head of the CMA, Dr. Day should know this.

No problem with Jack at the Clinic. The point is he is against the opening up of private clinics, which would slim down some hospital line ups.What is Taliban Jack really concerned about? Does he even understand the system?
As No Guff has pointed out, NDP really don't get it.

How is this out of character for a neo-com ?

In all socialist states the political elite caste are a class above the proletariat and always have access to services and indulgences denied the common labourer.

Jack is just following the text book records of the function of statist collectivism's caste syatem...the political bourgeoisie feed first and the crumbs go to the proletariat.

The socialist political aristocracy do not lower themselves to "cue jump" in a socialist dystopia, they simply claim their "entitlement" of position.

I fail to see how this is even a story. Like others have posted -- and it is worth repeating--Jack Layton was referred to the Shouldice clinic by his physician. He used his OHIP card, not a credit card.
Dr. Day is just using this as an opportunity to confuse people.

I fail to see how this is even a story. Like others have posted -- and it is worth repeating--Jack Layton was referred to the Shouldice clinic by his physician. He used his OHIP card, not a credit card.
Dr. Day is just using this as an opportunity to confuse people.

Debating Canadian Healthcare, or lack of it is like flogging a dead horse. Until the Friends of Medicare and their dipper kids die off the only solution (in their minds) is to shovel more money into a broken system. Anyone remember how much was spent by Roy Romino and his commission? He could have written his findings at day one and saved the taxpayer millions.

If I can build and operate a MRI at the same cost or cheaper than the government can then why can't I? I could do MRIs and shorten the queue, charge the govm't the same as they are paying the hospital and have a profit to boot. Although I haven't been there lately, I seem to recall that X-rays and lab tests were done by private companies. Why are they different?

BTW, I can get a MRI for the dead horse from the opening line.

For the benefit of young readers of this string, many years ago in communist Russia, the heads of state would always get to the stores that had all the best goods, food and health care while the peons stood in line for their bread and fish and cabbage.
Taliban Jack Layton is a communist through and through, ( as is Gerard Kenndy?) so don't be surprised that he doesn't hesitate to jump the line for his or his family's welfare.
Typical sh*t.
Until there is some true competition in the health care providers in this country you can bet your last dollar that unless you are a Paul Martin, ship magnate, Jean Chretien multi ( Librano) millionaire, Taliban Jack Layton, or Union big sh#t Buzz Hargrove you will bloody well wait until the Unionized health care system decides it's ready to treat you you will wait in line.
Get used to it!!
Fuc**ng hypocrites posing as political leaders.

"I fail to see how this is even a story. Like others have posted -- and it is worth repeating--Jack Layton was referred to the Shouldice clinic by his physician."

That's because your partisan blinders make your vision as narrow as your head....the fact is a single tier, pro full public health ideologue, who has railed against "private clinics" parked his "values" at the front door of a privately owned and operated clinic..get it?...private..not publicly owned as Jack wants the system to be....so what if OHIP paid the private billing....it proves 2 tiers exist and even the single tier ideologues use the advantage of private specialty clinics...even the Dystopian McGuintyland pays private billings.

In spite of the political jackasses who bray about single tier and denounce private involvement in the health care system, private clincs are integral and expanding....the article and the Head of the CMA were sinply drawing attention to the obvious hypocrisy of the mythology of single tier political activists.

Why do you have to constantly explain the simplest things to progressives? 8-/

so what if OHIP paid the private billing....it proves 2 tiers exist and even the single tier ideologues use the advantage of private specialty clinics

Where's the second tier? Jack used an Ontario Health Card, not a credit card, and any other Canadian citizen within range might have been referred to the same clinic, free of charge?

Keep grasping at that straw and you're liable to drown.

The point as I see it is this: Layton, the defender of medicare, isn't even informed enough to understand the premises on how this clinic operates, ie. private clinic funded by public money. The fact he doesn't even know this and, when he does rationalizes it (just like the leftist commentators here) is actually worse than if he knowingly engaged the clinic. Why? Because not only is it a private clinic, but it is a private clinic syphoning money off the public system. Wouldn't you lefties consider this significantly worse? Wouldn't this be the height of public health system abuse?

...and you guys want to talk about spin.

http://thelondonfog.blogspot.com/2005_11_27_thelondonfog_archive.html

Follow the link, it quotes Layton as saying he'd rather his wife go through pain waiting for a hip replacement than go to a private clinic. Sure, but if it were HIM requiring the surgery, he'd be pushing old ladies out of his way to get to the front of the line at the private clinic.

May I now assume Mr Layton has no objection to public-funded, private-supplied medical care?

My father had to wait for months now for a hernia operation. He still hasn't gotten it. My dad's a general labourer, and fiercely supports Jack and his groups of NDP air-heads. I'm one of the "working families," Jack. I wonder if my father'll still have the same enthusiasm for this scum-sucking, festering, pus-filled, double-talking, hypocritical weasel when he learns that good ol' Smilin' Jack jumped the queue and ignored the policy of government monopoly he'd gladly shove down the throats of every citizen of Canada. What's the matter, Jack? The pablum is good enough for the peasantry, but you're in the mood for a little steak?

This hits me personally, and makes me want to do things that are even illegal to speak about.

good ol' Smilin' Jack jumped the queue

Liar.