Here's a great follow-up to THIS discussion on troop support.
By: Rosie DiManno
Nearly six years after 9/11 – plotted in Afghanistan – the country is far from achieving what donor nations and military custodians had hoped. Reconstruction has been laggardly, corruption flourishes.But those who demand quantifiable benchmarks to justify continued intervention also ignore salient evidence, all that's been achieved by empowering traditional district councils, micro-credit funding of small businesses, schools built and reopened, vital thoroughfares constructed, irrigation systems repaired, national troops trained and mentored and Afghan currency stabilized. Those stories are under-reported because combat deaths and poppy production are so much more dramatic and easier to tell.
Afghanistan is far from guaranteed a stable future. The international mission to bring that country off its knees might very well fail.
But without Canadian troops there, providing such a large and integral fighting part of the NATO commitment, it's more likely that embryonic future will die in utero.
Who's the baby-killer now?
Then from Lorrie Goldstein comes Our Troops Deserve Better:
... some people who claim they "support our troops but not the war" are lying through their teeth.In fact, they don't support our troops, or even think about them very much.
But they are fanatically opposed to any public displays of support or affection not just for our soldiers, but for all things military -- stickers, rallies, parades, concerts, Red Fridays and similar events.
crossposted @ Cjunk
Boy: Taliban Recruited Me to Bomb Troops
FORWARD OPERATING BASE THUNDER, Afghanistan The story of a 6-year-old Afghan boy who says he thwarted an effort by Taliban militants to trick him into being a suicide bomber provoked tears and anger at a meeting of tribal leaders.
The account from Juma Gul, a dirt-caked child who collects scrap metal for money, left American soldiers dumbfounded that a youngster could be sent on such a mission. Afghan troops crowded around the boy to call him a hero. ...-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856473/posts
Baby Killers with peace signs?
I thought those were the guys who strap explosive belts onto six year olds?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,2109574,00.html
Or perhaps I am missing something.
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
The troops want you to support them by supporting their mission.
I've managed to convince both my parents during separate conversations that if they don't support the mission, then it's not possible for them to support the troops. The way I did it is by telling them that what they're saying is that they don't support the mission, but they claim to support the men and women carrying out the mision.
This isn't some Voltairean philosophical point, it's the truth. Actual support of this nebulous concept of The Troops has to come with some understanding of their duties, how and why they're carried out on a day to day basis.
Being able to tell the difference between the uniforms of the three branches would be nice as well, but that might just be asking a little much.
Don't go pushing any envelopes there Duncan. I never did convince Joe Warmington from the TO Sun that there is a difference between the three services and he actually supports and understands what it is we do.
He insisted that Master Corporal Darrell Priede was a soldier even after I pointed out the Air Force beret and the fact that he was in an Air Force only trade. He was an airman and deserves to be remembered as such.
Roise gets it while Rome burns.
That's the problem isn't it Duncan? We have been so mentally dulled by years of massive doses of defeatist, leftist doublethink, that everything beomes a mental excercise..
There are no absolutes, every truth is subjected to deconstruction..therefore no absolutism gives rise to moral relativism..
Canada becomes an abstract concept because "it" is seen as a more of an ideal, rather than a solid construct..
This is planned you see, because as long as there is a nebulous idea of what this construct of Canada is, it is open to modification and change, able to be socially re-engineered..
This process is maintained and nurtured as long as there is a denial of the original content,the original fabric that constituted Canada.
Only through denial of anything not of the correct, leftist content can this change be brought about.The people who propagate these changes believe in an anti-western,anti-capitalist agenda..
In their eyes, there is no Canada before 1968.
"Next comes their obligatory lament for the loss of Canada's reputation as a "peacekeeping nation,"
Canadian soldiers did not gain the respect of allies and foe alike because of their reputation as "peacekeepers". It was because they fought like hell in two World Wars, and Korea.
Thanks to lorrie Goldstein for a damned good column.
@kursk:
Do you now see why the greatest philosophers have risen out of cracked-up cultures?
It is perfectly understandable that the bureaucrats at City Hall do not approve of our troops, or their mission: They are probably aware, that military soldiers are sometimes sent to round up the honchos?
My personal favourite 'round up', was when the Romanian troops went to the Presidential Palace, ahd hauled Ceasceau, his wife, and some of their cronies. The troops drew straws for the privilege of busting a cap in Ceasceau's ass.
The Romanians now admit they made a mistake- they did not find out where Ceasceau hid the millions that he stole from the country. (Or-haha- they know, but they aren't saying.)
Initially, I did not approve of our guys' mission in Afganistan : There are very few places on this earth, (apart from Canada), that are worth the life of a Canadian soldier, (and Afganistan is not one of them.
But-on the other hand- for anybody who takes up soldiering for a career, they know that the only way to get the equivalent of a 'corner office', ( or, a government-issued creditcard), is to get out in the field, and spill some blood!
"Go to a foreign country, meet some interesting people, and kill them."
To our troops: Finish off your mission, and come home safe and whole. (What the hey- we may have some work for Ya to do at home).
Wars, like social programs, are to be evaluated by results, not intentions.
Andrew: So, how do you rate Afghanistan mission "results" so far?
Paul: We've been there for five years and we've trained 1,000 to 1,500 Afghan soldiers; I don't think that's very effective, do you? Feel free to post a non-torqued list of results....
I guess that most Canadians are not "supporting the troops". What a strange situation, wouldn't you say?
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/16034
I guess "your" Canada is not what most Canadians want.
only a sick, piece of garbage mofo would take any joy in the fact that the mission in Afghani is losing popularity with the Canadian public.....two main reasons come to mind.
1. the resultant death and mutilation to women and children(as well as targeted individuals who worked with the foreigners) that will result if NATO leaves without completely destroying the taliban
2. the complete waste, and disrespect for all that the Canadian, British, Aussie and Dutch troops have sacrificed to accomplish.
Unless one has the cajones to don a flack jacket, pick up a weapon, and stand between the innocents and the scumbags, I humbly ask that all moonbats just shut the f$%^ up! GO ARMY!
And how callous is that, Throbbin? That the average Canadian that takes for granted his freedom of speech and movement would not support our efforts to give that to oppressed people.
At the same time our soldiers are securing our way of life fighting the baddies "over there" so that they may not have a chance to ever bring their twisted values and murderous ways here.
How sad, how breathtakingly naive..
Kingstonlad - Unless you are willing to stand between the good guys and bad guys in Uzbekistan, in Darfur, in Nepal, or in the Congo, you can STFU.
Kursk - how callous is that? You guys try to read off of the Republican handbook on how to blur lines, and are surprised and offended when I provide evidence that Canadians want no part of the mission.
Fighting the baddies "over there" so they don't come "over here"? C'mon, most people are not stupid enough to swallow that crap. Questioning the validity of the mission in no way diminishes the respect Canada has for "the troops" - only an idiot would say that...or believe it.
It's funny when you try define yourselves as the "real" Canadians - only to find yourself as a part of a shrinking minority.
Keep up the outrage though, it's alot of fun.
yo, moonbat, let me tell you what my brothers and I have stood up against
1. firefights with euro-wannabe-weenie terrorists in the 80's in Europe
2. Canadian navy, gulf war 1, firefights with Islamist's
3. Somalia, firefights with scumbags intent on murdering children
I wil not even begin to recount our tours in Cyprus, Golan, Turkey, as well as the forest fires, floods, rescues at sea, etc
So, as I said earlier, unless you have the cajones(like my brothers and I do) shut your lousy moonbat, leftard mouth, a$$hole!
What is it with you leftist as*hats and the American comparisons? Like Kingston lad, i am a proud veteran of the CAF, and served my country, not the U.S.
..and sorry to burst your bubble, but these murdering thugs already have allowed the conditions to produce terrorists that have killed people in western countries..did you not know they hosted Al-Quaida training camps in Afghanistan?
Unlike you, i would rather stiffen my backbone and kill them there, than have you go to hysterical tears here when i ask you to help pick up body parts..
What part of Spain, London etc. don't you get?
Will i still hear from the likes of cowards such as yourself when we quit, and they do wreak havoc here?
Or will you be one of those smug leftist, anti-western white apologists that will applaud your kins deaths..as a richly deserved reward for their being a member of an unjust society.
I know your kind,and it sticks in my craw that you consider yourself above and beyond reach if ever push comes to shove.It's all sh*ts and giggles in the university pub,pontificating over a beer and debating Marxism..
What makes an as*hole like you think that you are any better than us? That somehow you are less worthy of death because you "get" your little brown fellow travellers?
Your blood will run just as red as any i have had the unfortunate cause to witness..
It's as if we've all been emulating Rip Van Winkle and are awakening to find just how deeply infiltrated we are at all levels with Lefty crapola.
Shudder to think, not only what we'd have but what we'd be if this movement had been around during the two world wars fought by our ancestors.
It's past time to fight it at every turn.
I think the Rip Van Winkle's are waking up, Liz. What Rosie Dimanno understands -- that "a soldier's death doesn't belong to all of us collectively either, except in the abstract or voyeuristically" -- somebody should tell the CBC. Every single death of a Canadians soldier is used by the management and producers at The National as a political prop for an anti-Conservative campaign.
The undercurrent -- more like an innuendo, really -- of the National's stories on soldiers' deaths seems to be "We support the soldiers so much that every time one of them dies it's a top story." But when the faces of a grieving family member segues, almost by rote, into larger anti-mission political campaigning, and the trotting out of Lib-left experts who "analyze" why Canadians are opposed to what is NOW being described as THIS government's -- Harper's -- mission, it belies their craven, prurient grandstanding and shows what they really think of our soldiers.
It's like this: if you pruriently appropriate a soldier's death to use for LPC traction, and you do so relentlessly, you cannot claim in any way that you support our soldiers or respect their life or their sacrifice. Period.
CBC's newsroom production culture, the character of David Miller, Jack Layton, etc., are in stark contrast to the character of Canada's soldiers. I think Canadians can see the difference, and it would be an understatement to say that the comparison is not flattering for Miller's ilk.
Andrew:
- drastically improved infant mortality rates
- record numbers of children in school, booking the most this past winter in the history of the country; and of course the most girls ever in school.
- irrigation systems back up and running and more and more coming on line ... for the first time since the Russian era
- an ever expanding infrastructure of roads, power grid, communications, hotels, etc., without which the economy can't grow.
- fastest growing economy in the Middle East (funny that Iraq holds the number 2 spot)
- stable currency that is not propped up by the US Fed Reserve as is the Iraqi Dinar.
- no more Taliban rule (which is likely the biggest point and comes with a whole bunch of human rights improvements)
- international teams mentoring on democratic reforms which are gradually finding there way into the courts and regions; local jirgas deciding local politics instead of the Taliban or War Lords
- hundreds of millions of dollars of loans and grants to individuals to either buy seed for crop, livestock, or businesses
- Kandahar Province out of Taliban hands for the first time ever with most of the regions population returning.
- No large Summer offensive by the Taliban
-Increasing amounts of localy produced intelligence that has gone into the killing of hundreds of Taliban this year alone.
- Afghan repatriations in the millions of people
- Remote mountain villages receiving aid the last several winters for the first time ever during the winter season
- rebuilding of national historic sites destroyed by the Taliban
- training of Afghan army units, the first of which are now virtually independant
- medical care to females and children for the first time since the Taliban
You see Andrew, you really should get out more. Keep in mind that I'm going off the top of my head after having read hundreds of articles on the matter ... if you'd spend some quality time looking for the improvements, such as the recent report by the International Monitary Fund, you would not have to look quite so uninformed. But then, if your mental map is constructed from MSM information and/or lefty blogs, you can be excused for genuinely not knowing a damn thing about Afghanistan.
Paul, your opinion is very nice, but the International Committee of the Red Cross would beg to differ:
3w.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/afghanistan-news-120607
Iberia: The article you mention says only that "insecurity" is greater this year than last and that some remote areas are receiving less "medical" care. It says not one thing about the points I've mentioned, and the piece is headed by a banner that reads "make a donation".
Further more, it's about as "scetchy" and unsubstantiated a piece one could find; even below the detail offered by any run of the mill CTV or CBC or BBC report. It's not even a formal report which is what we'd expect from an NGO ... it's just a fluff piece that means nothing.
If, and when, the IRC gives us hard facts that quantify progress or lack thereof over time, we can take them seriously. I'm sure they have such ... but I can't find it.
So, the IRC piece you give is not a rebuttle to my claims ... and if you follow available and regular reports by the ISAF, NATO, the UN, International Monitary Fund, DND, and every involved country and NGO, you'd get a more accurate picture instead of the tiny sliver you wish were true.
Is Afghanistan fixed? Of course not, and especially on the corruption level it is a basket case ... but enormous progress is being made in an incredibly short time ... those who feel that progress is slow need to go back to Sociology 101 and understand what it will, and is, taking to fix the place. Out by 2009 means failure.
Afghanistan is barely past "basket stage" ... thanks to our efforts. It was one of the poorest and most disfunctional regions on the planet ... it is just barely risen from that.
I know you want the whole thing to fail ... that you would rather eat poo than admit we fixed the place ... I know you want the Taliban back murdering, enslaving, and oppressing ... I know you want us to lose and to come home failures ... but purposefully avoiding and ignoring the progress being made in order to create a false image within your cranium is so sad.
Why not be honest about the parts of the Afghan mission that are a mess ... but also admit where great progress has been made. Why not criticize the failures and missteps, but also praise the progress. That's what thinking people do.
"International Committee of the Red Cross "?
Bwahahahahaha....no such f**king thing. Just the Useless Nations and tin pot dictators. You really should haul that hammer and sickle out of your a** lberia.
The 70s peace symbol THE FOOTPRINT OF THE CHICKEN
Paul:
"I know you want us to lose and to come home failures..."
You know?! What are you, a friggen mind reader? This is the problem with you "either you support us or you support the terrorist" guys...you can't accept any criticism.
According to you, things are going great. Well, since things are going so well, we should be able to leave soon. Or are things not going so well and we have to stick around? Make up your mind!!
IF things are to improve in Afghanistan, the number of troops must increase. Period. Otherwise this mission will start to look alot like what's going on in Israel/Palestine. Is that what you want? Another 60 plus years of war.
Get big or get out. Since it doesn't appear that NATO, the UN, or the US will get big, that leaves only one option.