Tinky Winky: Finally Out Of The Toy Box

'Loved Kathy's take on Falwell vs. Lefties! She's right on.

"Dude had your number, Lefties!" And then some. And there's nothing a Lefty hates more than someone calling their bluff and exposing their argument for the huff-and-I'll-puff-and-I'll-blow-your-house-down hooey it is.

They really like to stick to the story that they're progressive, enlightened, and right--er, I mean, correct. ;-)

Kate, I don't know what the problem is here, and it's the only blog where I'm experiencing this. I click on POST and nothing happens. I have no indication that my comment has posted. I can only find out by opening up SDA again...hmmm.

Sorry for the triple post... :-(

I was never comfortable with the dominance that Falwell and others apparently, or allegedly, had in the American conservative movement.

Kathy's take may well be the most accurate, "when powerful treated as a joke and when a joke treated as powerful"

Just unfortuate that he was even a powerful force at any given time. I believe his movement did long run harm to other elements of the conservative movement.

For my part I will not miss his apparent or attempted influence of the conservative movement. A heretical opionion in some quarters I know, but the coservative movement fights the idea that it is the evangalical christian movement as opposed to only being inclusive of that movement.

His death, while sad for his family and supporters may, from a more political view, represent the beginning of the ebb of the evangelical movement's influence in conservative politics, which in my view is a healthy and required thing.

a happy report from CBCpravda - but they seemed to forget "I Dream of Jeannie" as a first

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/tv/story/2007/05/16/cbs-season.html

It doesn't happen on other blogs, because they don't sustain the type of comment traffic this one does. Every comment produces a "rebuild" and that causes the delay because of demands on the server. So, don't push post again until you've reloaded the page and confirmed it didn't go through. They almost always do.

While no one would accuse me of being a member of the Christian right (apart from a few confused lefty trolls), the premise that they have no business inserting their religious beliefs into shaping public policy is as absurd as arguing that your own have no place in the debate.

It's the price of democracy - sometimes people with whom you disagree win. It's no accident that the left tries to pick and choose who gets to play the political activism game - and who doesn't.

Tinky Iggy

Of course when another Reverend (Dr. King) was registering folks to vote (Democrat), well, he was a hero! That was _different_, you see.

Kate,

No issue with participation. It is more within the conservative movements own control to be sure that they arent captured by some element that, while there is a signifiant common ground, doesnt end up doing a takeover or cause you to abandon other cherished principles.

Then there is the larger point of religon and politics in a civil secular society. Once again there never should be a denial of opinion or discounting of opinion based solely on their religon...all things should focus on content....but at some stage it is human to slip into fast analysis and sort people based on "brands"...religon should never be a political brand, it is attractive to make it so, but the day we organize along religous lines is a day we have taken a significant step backward in our politics. This also applies to anti religous brands, which I believe is a fundamental denial of humanity. Western Europe and North America came up with an ingenious political culture that allows many things. At times it is in danger of getting out of hand

My comments on Falwell are a reflection that perhaps we have stepped back from a direction that was not desirable, as a society and the conservative movement.

Once again not to be confused with denial of participation or even points being won...on that point, my dear hostess, we are in violent agreement.

As an antidote I will point to an article that provides another view to Mr Falwell and religon and politics. Just more input to the discussion.

http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/fr/flyout

What to say about Jerry Falwell.

I guess the truth is I didn't actually know much about the guy. His style of evangelism pushes my buttons big time, so I couldn't stand to listen to what he said.

Turns out nothing anybody else in the media said about him was true, like the Tinky Winky thing. They scored on me with that one, I admit it. Shame I have to find this out after the man died.

I guess I'll have to take a closer look at some of these other guys the media loves to hate. The religious Right may be a lot of things, but pathological liars and destroyers of reputation they aren't. That puts them a long way ahead of the Lefties in my book.

Kathy,

You are correct. But I would be disappointed if you felt that Rev Falwell and Rev King were even closely in the same league with even vaguely similar goals.....King had his flaws, he was human, but very different people.

But King is likely where Rev Falwell found his example...of course according to Hitchens article Falwell thought religon and politics was a bad thing back then....but hey we are all entitled to change our minds...and maybe to Rev Falwell that was different as well....

In an odd way, and I mean a very odd way, I found Falwell made a lot of sense most of the time.

Kathy, Kate:

And Tommy Douglas was a BAPTIST MINISTER but no one questioned his religious affiliation as it related to fitness to be involved in the political process.

One could multiply examples such as Bill Blaikie, Al Gore was once, shudder a Divinity student, etc.

If one is a leftist religious affiliation doesn't matter, but if you hail from the right; Oh My God there is HELL to pay.

The hypocrisy of the left vs right debate in this regard is staggering.

From this point of view, it really does not matter what Falwell said or done.
This just points to the absolutely gross hypocrisy of the news manufacturing corporations.

The last sound bite I heard him say was.

"America is in a struggle for it's survival."

The left will never understand what that means.
They are deranged, with a hatred for every player that does not recite empty politically correct sewage.

Like him or not, Falwell saw the trend and spoke the truth.

I'm just wondering when the traitors will be declared enemy combatants and tried under military law.

Going to Hitchens to comment about Falwell is like going to Paris Hilton for her thoughts about, well, just about anything.

Kathy, you aren't fit to hold Chris Hitchens' pencils.

Well somebody has to -- he's too drunk to hold them himself.

Well said, Kathy!

Nice handle Rattfuc

What are you about fourteenish?

Link, I gotta few more years on me than that. Like about 47 more.
By the way, what does your comment have to do with the topic being discussed here?

http://michaelmedved.townhall.com/blog/g/16f7e56d-5992-4b63-971b-88fd1d8dc806

I wonder what sinning Falwell did to cause god to kill him?

Falwell spoke from the hip much of the time, but much of what he said was right on. He knew he hadn't chosen his words as well as he should have but what he meant was simply that because America had turned away from the word of God and embraced the practices which are abhorrent to God (and it's not just sodomy), America had come out from under the covering of God. Therefore, bad things happen. At that time, Christians were not involved in the political field and a large percentage didn't vote - thinking they were to be in the world but not of the world. Jerry Falwell galvanized them and made them aware that if they wanted God to bless America, then they'd better be involved in the choice of candidates, take an interest in issues, and vote. This he did, and while he irritated many with his brash outspokenness, he was a man for the time. Rev. King was a man for the time, also, but a different time. But, he was as hated as Falwell - it just isn't politically correct to remember that.

The real problem here and is the issue of immigration. Too much and a lot of the wrong kind of people. Who asked for this and why do we have it? Why are real Canadians being raped by immigrants so the filthy rich and powerful can have more money that they don't even need. The word is GREED.

And here I thought countries were the product of their people as a summation of the individuals residing within it and not God blessing them as a collective.....

And this is my point about making Falwell a hero or leading light of the conservative movement. Countries I thought were about individual actions and responsibility, not some divine and magical benefincence, and this is the tension within the conservative meovement between the religous right and others within the movement...fiscal conservatives, libertarians, law and order types etc.

Falwell did get these mixed, counter to what I think most conservatives would believe. To remind everyone of his quote post 911

""I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

He later apologized for it.....rightfully so

But the link to God protecting America versus America protecting America continued in other quotes.

From the following story (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/) "Falwell said he believes the ACLU and other organizations "which have attempted to secularize America, have removed our nation from its relationship with Christ on which it was founded." (I think a number of people including the founding fathers might have debated the last point)

"I therefore believe that that created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection which has allowed no one to attack America on our soil since 1812," he said.

Hmmm so America was godless in 1812 when apparently God decided decided that the British were allowed to attack America, or was it that God decided that America had a right to attack the British colonies in Canada because they were ungodly but later changed his mind and let the other side do it and let the whole War come to a draw???? Or is it that God had absolutely nothing to do with it!

By all turns Falwell was a personable man and I have never heard anyone mention any impropriety of him, unlike Rev Baker, Rev Haggard, Rev Swaggart.

I do not right participate or his right to organize a movement. His legacy for the conservative movement should be questioned and there should be lessons for all sides, I dont think his side got what they wanted for all of this temporal polticial grubbiness with "ceaser" and I think that the GOP and the North American conservative movement in general got tarred with positions that represented only a fraction of its base and a much smaller fraction of the population.

It will take time for the conservative movement to live that down, because they were so prominent being a member of the conservatove family became confused with what was required to be a conservative. That is my main objection to Mr Falwell's project, as successful as it and he was.

And Kathy, yes Hitchens gets out of hand talking religion and it does say more of him than his opponent.

...because America had turned away from the word of God and embraced the practices which are abhorrent to God (and it's not just sodomy), America had come out from under the covering of God. Therefore, bad things happen.

The real problem here and is the issue of immigration. Too much and a lot of the wrong kind of people.

Jerry Falwell was one of the best things to happen to the political Left. He'll be sorely missed.

Thanks for the explanation, Kate. It's just that this hadn't happened before, that I remember at least.

I'll reload the page before I push POST again...