Snowbirds

Damn, again. Condolances go out to those who are personally affected. I haven't heard any details yet but I see the MSM have already started to second guess the accident investigators by mentioning the age of the CT114s.

If the Government of Canada does anything regarding the Snowbirds, could they PLEASE equip these superb pilots with the latest, state of the art, fighters!

Give'em the best money can buy! They're supposed to present an image of Canada to the world. The only image they present to me, is that Canada has so little respect for her military, they will place the members of their elite flying squadron at risk with ancient equipment.

Damned sorry to see another CAF person die in old outdated equipment, no matter what the cause.

Missing man formation.

They do so much to add to our spirit.

Sad, but they will continue. . . = TG

"If the Government of Canada does anything regarding the Snowbirds, could they PLEASE equip these superb pilots with the latest, state of the art, fighters!"

Don't blame the airplane until the cause is known. Most of these crashes are a result of pilot error.

I have a friend whose son-in-law is a pilot with the Snowbirds....hopefully by now he knows whether to grieve...or to grieve for some other family...

It's always sad to see good people die, especially considering the vast amount of human garbage that always seem to live on.

This pilot was not the first lost from 431 Squadron, nor will he be the last.

We honour and remember them all.

Snowbird pilots are amongst the best in the world..they really wring those tutors to the limit, but i believe they have great faith in the airframe..their techs really do a marvelous job keeping these planes flying and will search the world for new old stock parts for them. All the operational jets are as good or better than the day they left the assembly line..

Who Killed Cock Robin? Condolences to family and team. We will remember them....

As some of you will note, I've cleaned up this thread. Please keep it that way.

God Bless

Syncro

I'm tired of this. Haven't we had casualties before with the snowbirds? Exactly why do we continue with such activities? Its time to shut them down and bring the pilots home now!

Joshua, bring the pilots home from where, Moose Jaw?

I was at the Abbotsford AIr Show several years back, and noticed members of the USAF Thunderbirds, who get to fly decent planes, standing on the tarmac, watching the Snowbirds, with admiration. Great pilots respecting other great pilots.

It's our tax dollars, and we rarely get a chance to see them at work.

I'd rather see a Canadian Air Force demo group flying F-18's and putting on their usual marvellous shows, than see more of our tax dollars pissed away on boondoggles, like guaranteeing Bombardier's foreign investments.

These guys are some of the best pilots in the world, let's treat them like it.

My condolences to the pilot's families.

I watched in shame as the CF did a fly past for the Queen when she was in Edmonton for the Alberta centenial (2005) One CF-18 Hornet led the formation consisting of the CF-18 and two CT-114 Tutors in Snowbird colours. Nothing but respect for the pilots who strap on aircraft older than the pilot's and prove themselves to be the best the world has to offer. Nothing but disdain for the lefties that have destroyed the CF over all the years they have been in power.

Seriously though, the snowbirds are something to be proud of. Condolences to the family from here too.

I once saw the THUNDERBIRDS do their stuff at our county fair a few years ago and the SNOWBIRDS is canadas version AHH YES BIRDS FLY HIGH SQUAWK SQUAWK

Thunderbirds vs Snowbirds? No comparison. Apples and oranges. Thunderbirds are shock and awe. Snowbirds are agility and skill.

My admiration for the Snowbirds and the pilots and ground crew is without limits. Once again we see the words of Sir Winston Churchill ring true. "They also serve, who only stand and wait". Training and demonstrations are a especially sad place to loose our men and women in uniform but they are just as much heroes as those who were lost in combat.
The least we can do is see they are equipped equal to the world's best, because that's what they are.

How many more accidents should we tolerate before we stop this waste of lives, planes and taxpayers' money?

Albatross and Kursk are correct. An aircraft will last forever if maintained properly. One thing that makes the Snowbirds unique is that they don't use full-sized supersonic fighters. The slower and more agile trainers makes for a different show, and in my opinion they are the best air demonstration show in the world.

Condolences to all involved. I am looking forward to seeing the Snowbirds at Abbotsford this summer.

randall g: "Albatross and Kursk are correct."

I disagree with all 3 of you. Been in the maintenance business since 1958 and still involved.
Yes, you can technically keep it flying fo ever, but why would you want to? A 1960's airplane was not built as reliable as a modern one to begin with. They must be making the parts in house by now. Everything just suffers from plain fatigue; even the airframe. The costs go through the roof. I can't say specifically about the CT-114 but Canada has a bad habit of not upgrading when/where they should due to funding shortfall. Was this aircraft re-engined, for example, to a new pattern engine when they became available?
Very sad way to loose our people.

People, s**t happens. When Snowbird crashed at CNE in 89, I think, the cause was never disclosed, so no point in jumping to conclusions, if cause not likely to be public.

At CNE Snowbirds were doing upward downward bomburst, when, coming back down from top, Shayne Antaya came over and clipped his wingman, then powered into lake in vertical dive.

The Flight Safety team showed me that's what happened, but from the untrained eye, not comparing exhaust trail, it looked as if Antaya had been hit or tried to control his aircraft on way down.

It's easy to jump to conclusions. During press conference, one reporter gave lecture to CNE president (this is not a time for stiff upper lip),when he dared to bring up their safety record, I had to stop myself from asking where she got her flight safety training.

Press will not yield any good info here. I think the planes are OK right now, though there has been talk of replacement. This has happened before and will likely happen again.

We can muse if cost acceptable if we want, but military will get killed doing lots of things; unfortunately, unlimited liability goes with the job.

Mechanical devices including aircraft cannot last forever. There is a reason parts and aircraft are given a "life span". Cumulative stresses on aircraft can and do cause structural cracking and catastrophic failure. That is part of the reason for periodic inspections and NDT (non-distructive testing)is done on a regular basis. This is part of the reason there are so many maintenance hours required to keep a Sea King in the air. Do people realize that aircraft chosen for Snowbird duty are only used for so long as the stresses involved in a Snowbird aircraft severely shortens the life of the aircraft. Searching the world for new old parts or whatever is pretty much a BS statement as these are Canadian designed and built aircraft. Only a few were ever sold internationally and that was to Malaysia I believe and it was for close support. Hanging weapons and bombs off the airframe doesn't add anything to the life of any aircraft, even if there are any still kicking around.

It is too soon to assign blame as it were. Crash investigators do not go into an investigation with any preconceived ideas. Think of them as CSI of the aviation world. The proof is in the evidence.

I can speak here with some authority on this subject as I have been involved in maintenance of the Tudor CT-114 in Moose Jaw and elsewhere. I also have also been directly involved in Flight Safety.

Once again, my condolences to those who have suffered a loss.

That empty space really bothers me.

"Missing Man Formation" is such a poignant image.

Rest eternal grant unto Shawn, O Lord.
And may light perpetual shine upon him. Amen.

Condolences to his family and his fiancee.

Amen, batb.

My condolences to the family. As an ex-Airforce guy, I have gone through this many times. It never gets easier. BUT...just heard on CTVtass that he was the youngest pilot ever recruited as a Snowbird. Sorry. In 1972, 24 year-old Capt. Lloyd Waterer was killed at an airshow in Trenton,Ont.
Can't the MSM get ANY facts straight????
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Just read that he was to have been married in three short weeks. God rest his soul.

It was with dismay that I discovered that we have lost another Snowbird pilot.

It is with disdain that I read the kneejerk "Disband the Snowbirds" /"Get them real airplanes" comments.

The Snowbirds are made up of the best damned pilots in the Canadian Forces. They fly the CT-114 because it is a GREAT platform with which to showcase precision flying. Before we bury the CT-114, perhaps we should ask "Do they WANT a different platform?"

They have won and will continue to win competitions with the other military flying teams from around the world because they are incredibly good at what they do. I have watched in awe as they do things with airplanes that "can't" be done. As have my kids. They inspired me at age 40 to get my pilot's license. It's hard to imagine what they inspire in military pilots!

As I read in a "Flying" magazine a few years ago, "The Canadian Snowbirds will be at the Lakeland Air Show this year. You have to see them to believe that it is possible to put that many airplanes, into that little airspace." There is a recognition of their skills from all over the world, military and non-military.

The reason that the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds et al cannot fly the same maneuvers that the Snowbirds can is because an inherently unstable fighter jet isn't that controllable in very tight quarters.

To suspend the Snowbird program would be a disservice to our greatest pilots. All pilots aspire to "make" the Snowbirds. It is a validation of their skill with the stick. It helps to inspire them all to get better and better at what they do. So to disband 431 Squadron would be an insult to all those who are involved in it and all those who came before.

My sincerest condolences to all affected by this tragic loss. Colleagues, Friends and Families.

Godspeed Captain Shawn McCaughey. May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

SNOWBIRDS OR THUNDERBIRDS THEIR AWSOME