"A nation within a united Canada"

Sorry - comments now working.

This is the beginning of the end of Canada.

Far from appeasing separatist notions in Quebec, this will inflame them. Once Quebec has been officially called a 'nation', they will want to go further. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.

Other provinces and people will also want to be a 'nation' and not allow one province to have a special standing. Alberta, BC and probably Ontario will be the first to go this route.

I hope gaining a few votes in Quebec is really worth it for the Conservatives. This is a slippery slope and once you jump on it, prepare to slide the whole way down to nation dissolution.

This is a very sad day.

When is the reform party coming back or better yet western separation.

Distinct society without a 3E senate. The western reform movement is dead.

End of Canada? Far from it.

Harper has not only pointed out the elephant in the room, he has explained why it is there.

Stephen Harper may have just put the Quebec issue to bed forever.

I watched that speech, and Don Newmans comments after.
Don seemed quite moved by the Prime Ministers comments, he mentioned twice how PRIME MINISTERIAL Mr. Harper was. ( Sorry for the caps, my quotation marks dont work)

"If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, it will always be yours; if it doesn't, it never was."

I've had enough of the blackmail...kick them out. But Canada keeps what Canada owns, including the St. Lawrence, St. Lawrence Seaway and the hydro-electric infrastructure in Labrador. The contract to supply cheap power does not apply to the country of Quebec...sign a new contract for power that is 500% higher.

No shared currency. No shared passports. No shared nothin'!

Looks like a very savvy political move to me. PMSH has pre-empted the motion that the Bloc were going to introduce on Thursday, which the Tories would have had to vote against, and that vote would likely have been perceived as a slap by many Quebeckers.

Once again it appears that Harper is actually leading, not governing by polls.

If there is an elephant in the room.
He is ignoring the fact that everyone else has to feed it since it can't take care of itself.

Elephants are wild animals and are hard to train.
Let the Elephant go, I am done with them.

JL, i agree with you. Mr. Harper correctly pointer out that this is a matter for all Canadians.
Duceppe wasnt too smart to bring a bill such as this before the Parliament of Canada, then argue that this is a matter for Quebecers only.
You cant have it both ways Gilles.

This was Iggy's idea a few weeks ago. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now. Are we going to have a "nation of nations" where every group larger than two puts up a fence and makes their own rules? Sharia Law, here we come.

Harper must have got into some bad dope. This is the second moronic thing he's done in the last month. The end can't be far off.

Bruce, what you're saying is that Harper *is* governing by the polls. He is doing what will gain him votes and favour in Quebec.

Problem is that Harper needs to be looking out for what is important for Canada. Are you all so far out there that you really want all the turmoil and uncertainty that Quebec nationhood would embroil? Yes, I don't want to have this question continually either, but from a pure fiscal viewpoint, this cannot be a good thing for our country as a whole. Watch investment dry up as the business community watches our breakup, uncertain whether or not we're a good bet for investment. And as much as you all hate bilingualism, just lets see how much the legal bills alone would be to sort all this out.

My Canada includes Quebec.. not just because I want us to be a united country, but also from a fiscally selfish viewpoint too.

When is the recognition of other nations going to happen and what will be the compensation for Quebec.

How come the Conservatives didn't recognize all nations in Canada at the same time?

Ridiculous special treatment for Quebec.

I wanna be a nation to. I'll be Grandadland. Perhaps I'll sign bilateral trade agreements with Quebecland and FirstNations land. Sounds like a lot of Crapland to me.

My quarrel has never been with the francophones or the Quebecois. I speak le plus mauvais francais, lived in Montreal for five years and was never, ever, treated badly by folks on the street whether I was in rural or urban Quebec. The government was another story: patently ethnicist, xenophobic and almost nonchalantly authoritarian. So, I think Canadians ask the wrong question.

Instead of "Should Quebec be allowed to separate?", my thinking is (based on travesties like the sign laws and refusal to provide fully bilingual services at the government level) that the proper question is: "Should Quebec be allowed to stay?".

In Kakolaland, I'm going to have a single flat tax, thus ending the policy of taxing taxes on taxes.

A nation within a united Canada.
To those of you crying its the end of the world, i beg of you to read or hear the entire speech.
Mr Harper has it exactly right, considering the spot he was put in by the motion from the Bloc.
Once again, our Prime Minister has been misunderestimated.

Yuck, I think I'm going to be sick.
Who endorses an Ignatieff proposal?

Fortier, income trusts and now this. That's 3 strikes. And I'm a former PC-wing Torontonian (that's changed in the past 3 years).

I still support the CPC for economic reasons, but I will be voting against Harper at the next leadership review no matter what.

If he had just said: "Anglophone and Francophone Canadians constitute two nations within a united Canada", I wouldn't have a problem with it. But this? This? Ugh.

Mon dieu...here we go again...but what the hell do I know? I have lived in the West for most of my life and I never met a Quebecer I didn't like...except my former universtity French teacher--what a pompous ass. I think we should have a final vote once and for all and if Quebecers choose to say non to Canada, then let's wrap it up and move on. Rene Levesque is probably rolling over in his grave....if Quebecers want a divorce, let's grant it. I am tired of feeling like the rest of Canada is keeping Quebec on a short leash. Off you go petit chien but don't come back begging to be let back in...and no bones for you either...;)

What a load of crap!
Sellout to appease the Franco's of Kbec.....

What makes Quebec any more special than BC, Alberta or any of the other Provinces in Canada?
The only negotiations that should be taking place are as follows:
1. Quebec WILL return the Canadian Armed Forces complete with all equipment.
2. Quebec WILL return Canadian currency while re-paying their portion of the national debt.
3. Quebec WILL lose all funding from the Canadian Government.
4. Quebec WILL return ALL Canadian passports to the Government of Canada.
5. All contracts awarded from the Government of Canada are cancelled. (they are meant for Canadian companies. This means especially Bombardier)

As stated by a PROUD CANADIAN.

The Prime Minister made a speech for all of Canada, Not a separate Canada.
His speech condoned & blocked the bloq for what they were attempting to do & that is to break this country up.
The Prime Minister Did his job & that's standing up for Canada
The liberals strongly supported the Prime Minister & Bill Graham was very admiral.
Jack Layton in a typical election style speech just added more egg to his face by stating that the only way to keep Canada together was by electing & forming a Socialist Canada.(the groans & moans were louder then his mustache on a windy day) the look on his face I think he realized that he just went from (in his mind) Captain Canada to Idiot of the Week Award.

"Harper must have got into some bad dope. This is the second moronic thing he's done in the last month. The end can't be far off."

Iggy and the Liberals brought this nation thing up at their conventention.Of course the fallout from that was Duceppe bringing forth the Quebec is a nation motion.

Harper,being the Prime Minister did what had to be done,effectively trumping Duceppes motion and taking the emphasis of the "nation".

All you had to do was watch Duceppes body language when Harper was talking to realize Harper just kicked his butt up,down and sideways.

Not for all of Canada.
Not my Canada.
Recognition of a single nation, when others have been struggling for a longer time for example the Acadians or Metis is a joke.

Newfoundland gave up their distinct nationhood to join our merry country.

We are either together as single nation that enjoys cultural recognition or separate nations. Not both.

Todd:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It was clear that the Bloc motion was to be introduced on Thursday. The CPC and most of the Liberals (no idea what the "You Must Be Kidding" Party's position might be) would HAVE to vote against the Bloc motion, on the basis that it was to propose that Quebec was an "independent" nation. My sense is that the "no" position would be used by the Bloc to inflame as many Quebeckers as they could.

I was born and raised in Montreal. My experience there was that a significant proportion of those in Quebec do consider themselves as a "nation' because of cultural differences etc. But that does not mean they they don't also consider themselves as Canadians.

I personally wish the issue did not come up. But since it was clearly going to be brought up by the Bloc in a couple of days anyway, I think that Harper's move today was smart and promotes inclusiveness, not divisivness. His motion completely pre-empts that of the Bloc, and he's managed to turn a potential train-wreck into something more positive.

And as a BCer, my Canada also includes Quebec, even though many of them can be a real pain in the ass at times.

About the only positive result that I can see from Quebec's departure is that it would make the drive from Toronto to the Maritimes five hours shorter :)

Quebec is a nation so what's a canada?

Are nations entitled to transfer payments?

It isn't simply that the Liberals or the Bloc put Harper into this position. They have done it now, this month. But - We Canadians have done this to ourselves and our government.

1) We accepted a Charter that puts most of its focus on bilingualism. We have accepted the notion that Canada is bilingual. This is a fiction; Canada is not and never will be bilingual.
I remember at the time of the Charter, I was equally living 30,000 ft up in the clouds; I thought it was great; we'd all be chattering away, European style, as bilingual.

I'm a lot older now and I think I know fact from fiction. Canada is not and never will be bilingual. The percentage of anglophones who are bilingual remains fixed at only 10%; the percentage of francophones remains fixed at 45%.

BUT- we set up a government infrastructure that privileged Quebec's role as 50-50. All documents and speeches must be in both languages (the cost, the cost!); all services, etc, etc.

And - Quebec alone is guaranteed 75 seats minimum in the House, no matter the size of its population. At the moment, Albera and BC together have a larger population than Quebec, but 10 less seats.

Government bureaucracy, because of the bilingual requirement, has moved out of the control of the whole electorate and become focused around a narrow corridor - Montreal/Ottawa- who form the majority of the Ottawa bureaucracy - and who, by necessity, also act as heads of NGO. Advancement and promotions are based on that bilingual requirement.

Research and awards? For example - the G-G literature awards - are allotted one in each language, which means that a francophone writer has far more chance of winning than an anglophone writer (20-80 is the language percentage).

We have done this; we have set ourselves up as a bilingual country - when the facts are, that we are not.

2)Because of those 75 seats - Quebec is the lynch pin for a majority government. Remember, we have done this. It has nothing to do with political tactics. It's a reality any party has to face.

At the moment, the Liberals are trying to gain Quebec - that was Ignatieff's strategy. Go for Quebec and get the Quebecers to vote him in as leader. And - he'd use the same tactic in a federal election. Go for Quebec. Call it a 'nation'.
This has thrown the Liberal candidates in a loop. If they reject it - then, the Quebec delegates might well put Ignatieff in as leader.
And, IF anyone rejects it AND gets nominated as leader - then, he'll lose the Quebec vote in a federal election.

The Bloc, the designated party for Quebec separation - whose members (and election expenses) are all funded by the taxpayer of Canada, including their generous pensions - and who don't even have to bother competing in the rest of Canada...well, apart from showing how insane we are to permit this...The Bloc HAD to put forth the motion. It HAD to; it can't have its sole reason for existence, Quebec's national status, kidnapped by the Liberals. Otherwise, the Bloc loses votes in Quebec to the Liberals.

So- for both the Liberals and the Bloc - this agenda was all about and only about - votes. Period. Nothing for the good of Quebec or Canada.

3) So- Harper had to, as the leader of this country, and trapped, locked into an electoral structure that gives one province, Quebec, status as the lynchpin of government of the whole country - he had to step in and 'lance the boil'.
He had to take charge, make the definition and disable both the Liberals and the Bloc from their pernicious election campaigning.

4) He's using the Fichte-Herder 19th c. definition of 'nation' as an ethnic or cultural collective.

5) Yes - that does mean that any ethnic or cultural group in Canada now has the right to insist on 'national' identification. I sure hope the Cree in Northern Quebec insist on it.

6) And yes, in my view, a cultural definition of 'nation' will morph into insisting on political powers.

BUT- Harper had no choice. We, the people of Canada, have permitted this. We haven't made our voice known against it. We haven't written our MPs, we haven't talked and ranted about it. We've followed, like sheep, for years the fiction that 'we are bilingual'. We are not.
We have ignored the results - a closed set of isolate bureaucrats in Ottawa-Montreal, a bureaucracy and gov't closed to the majority of citizens in this country.
We have been too frightened of being accused of 'bigotry' to confront Quebec's 75 seats, Quebec's insistent demands for money to support its socialist lifestyle.

Harper did the right thing - given the nefarious political infrastructure of this country. He swept the rug right under the feet of the Liberals and the Bloc - and left them up in the air. Harper has his own feet, firmly on the ground.

He's one, if not the, best PM's we've ever had.

I will give you my honest first reaction

Huh????

I have no second reaction yet. Need to know more and figure this out. Is Mr Harper being "nuanced"?

Not sure where this is going....Harper is no Iggy, so not concerned that he is splitting intellectual hairs, and this isnt constitutional recognition....it is a parliamentary resolution, I think.

So the question is does this douse or fuel the fire that Iggy started

This incident should confirm, once and for all, that the Conservatives, not the Liberals, are the only party positioned to "stand up for Canada" on the national unity file. While Graham panicked and called an "emergency" meeting, Harper coolly cut Gilles Duceppe's legs from underneath him. Graham could do nothing except gratefully thank Harper for pulling his nuts out of the fire. A brilliant political masterstroke.

I'm with those above who see the political strategy in this. Harper has taken the wind out of the Bloq. He's also destroyed Ignatieff's bid to be Liberal leader, since the Liberals will, in response to this motion, swing away from this notion. Rae will now certainly be Liberal leader come Spring, and is the more defeatable come next federal election.

Maybe Quebec is more of a nation than Canada is.

Realistically, there is no national identity for Canada anymore. All a strong central government can achieve is division - we are far too desperate regionally to ALL agree on a given federal position.

As I see it either the federal government, in partnership with the provinces, will slowly decentralize or the confederation will tear itself apart. Personally, I doubt the former is possible so I see the latter as much more likely.

Todd said
"This is the beginning of the end of Canada."

I have news pal, the end of Canada began they day Pierre Elliot Trudeau was elected to Parliament.

Quebec is a pain in the ass and if recognizing that they are an inferior part of Canada that needs to be isolated from the rest of us ... so be it.

The upside is that Quebecers will see this as move in the direction they want to go and may just vote CPC to keep this happening.

I am okay with it. If they separate entirely and get off our tax teat ... so much the better.

Mr. Harper, in one fell swoop has effectively cut the legs out from under the bloc and separatism.

He has stalled the independence machine, and has given a certain amount of respect and dignity to the many Quebekers who were looking for leadership from a federal party.They now have the clear choice of who represents their interests federally.

Gilles Dusceppe could only look on in horror is right...this motion they were about to bring forward has been blown up in their face..

Ladies and gents, don't despair! this is a good day for Canada..good on PMSH!!!

Agreed - I see this as a political tactic that our constitution and the political games of the Liberals and the Bloc - put Harper in.

Think of the Canadian situation. We have set up a political structure that guarantees one province a minimum number of seats, regardless of its population. But we've done something else. We have allowed it to set up a Federal political party, ie, a party that runs only in federal elections - and yet, is confined to that one province. It does not need to attract the vote in any other part of the country.

Result? This structure effectively reduces the capacity of the other political parties to ever form a majority. We've removed 75 seats from the national parties - and handed them over to a provincial-only party.

And, we've alienated ourselves from representing Quebec, because we've given them their own political representation in the House. So, the Liberals or the CPC or the NDP don't easily get to represent Quebec. No, that's reserved to the Quebec-Only party, the Bloc.

That seriously harms the capacity of Canada to govern itself, since the Quebec-Only party, the Bloc, has no interest or representation in what is going on in the rest of Canada. Doesn't give a damn. It has one focus (apart from its pensions); - and that is 'what's good for Quebec'. Period. If it's bad for the rest of Canada - tough.

We've allowed this to happen. We haven't confronted the idiocy of this structure.

The Bloc has only one agenda - what's good for Quebec. Naturally, most Quebecois will vote for it; why shouldn't they?

By the way - Quebec will never separate. It can't afford to; not only does it have the highest provincial debt, but, it can't pay that off nor could it pay off its share of the national debt. AND - the ROC funds its socialist programs. Quebec has $7.00 daycare; other provinces can't afford that. Neither can Quebec; the ROC pays for it. Quebec has the lowest university tuitions - available to all world francophones. Paid for by the ROC. Its unions disable its economic productivity; its population has sunk to nothing - while Ontario and the West are exploding. Quebec cannot separate.

The problem remains - what is a nation? Harper had no choice but to remove it as a political strategy for power, being used by Ignatieff and the Bloc - and define it as a 'cultural identity'.

Ontario always courts the old worn doll in faded clothes and cheap french perfume.

look west for youth or she will leave first.(I WISH)

I'm continouously impressed by PMSH and his political savy. But, I don't think this will fly.

I think we need a referendum on whether we allow Quebec to stay.

If we vote to turf 'em out, we get the real estate. They get a boat ticket to France.

Or, we can go two out of three on the Plains of Abraham.

I agree with everything you've said ET, but as an Albertan, "we" is a very bitter pill to swallow.

Harper is doing the best he can with what he's been dealt. It'll be fun to see how the phonies handle this.

Haven't we done this song and dance routine before? Once again, governments pander to quebec just to show quebeckers that we understand them; What's to understand? Is anyone else tired of this?

Jane Taber comments that this will open a can of worms, do we make Metis or acadian nation within a nation.
She has not seen the swift kick in the ass the PM just gave the Bloq & i would asume Layton after his Democratic Social Canada Comment's(ctv.ca)
Many have said kick them out, we don't need them harper has lynched himself. Iam sure that there are many Quebecois that have said similar, But the thing here is The PM is right We are a nation made up of peoples from many nations, We are Canada together, Not Divided.
ET stated maybe just the best PM we will ever see & I agree.

Hassle, I think the quote is "If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, it will always be yours; if it doesn't......hunt it down and kill it".

:-)

"I will be voting against Harper at the next leadership review no matter what."

I've decided to eat crow on my earlier statement.

The fact is that this is a parliamentary resolution, not reopening the constitution. For that reason it's different from Iggy's or Mulroney's distinct society proposal.

Quebec is entitled to all the powers under the constitution just as any other province is. But it should be made clear that this does not entitle the province to any new constitutional powers as a result.

This is not the end of separatism by the way. It just brings things back to the status quo ante Ignatieff.

Harper has BALLS, I'll give him that.

Heres how i see it. (pay attention now, im old and wise, )
Iggy started this.
Duceppe saw an opportunity.
Mr. Harper skewered both of them.
The NDP is, as usual, irrelevant

I watched Pm Harper & he handled this as a leader of all Canadians,he did us proud.Quebec has always been a nation within Canada,it's a tribal thing.Same with Albertans,Ontarions,Newfoundlanders,Cape Bretoners etc.It's part of our diverse cultural mosaic and I have no problem with that.What also struck me as truly heartening was Bill Graham and the Liberals applause for Mr Harpers speech.Maybe there is hope for this country yet.At the very least Mr Harper has clarrified the governments position and perhaps saved some Liberal chestnuts from this weekends fire.

I agree with Mike from WR. Stephan Harper is one smart son of a gun. Lets' all of Canada Vote to see whether they get to stay Canadian or not. Or let's get it on.

I do think that Mr. Harper's intention is foolish. I don't know how it will play in Newfoundland, or rather how badly it will play, but he should remember that Newfoundland was a separate Dominion
from some time in the 19th century until 1934, and is ethnically as well as historically and politically distinct from central Canada (apart from the obvious Catholic Irish component, many Newfoundlanders are of West County English descent, or Welsh, with more than a little pirate in their makeup. They opposed union with Canada because they liked free trade and disliked heavy taxes; and certainly got the second, and much of the first. Ontario, however, was much more Scotch-Irish protestant in background).

Look - Ignatieff started this, as a political strategy to gain the Liberal leadership for himself. The reason he did it - was not for the good of Quebec or Canada - but for power. The Liberals had effectively wiped themselves out in Quebec in the last election, because of the Sponsorship scandal. Quebec was disgusted at them.

How do the Liberals take power again in Quebec after that scandal? By another emotional tactic - calling them a 'nation'. It was a deliberate political tactic by Ignatieff. The other Liberal candidates were stunned. First- it was a strategic tactic that - if they refused it - they might not get the Quebec delegates to nominate them as leader. If they accepted it, they might have trouble in the Rest of Canada!

That's why they were falling over themselves; Ignatieff, with his focus on Quebec - and we've done that to ourselves - we've made Quebec the lynch pin - Ignatieff stood to be the next Liberal leader.

Duceppe had to move. So, after all, since his party is only about Quebec, he had to kidnap that motion and make it his own. That's what he proposed to do. But his motion was so divisive that the CPC would have to vote against it. The NDP could get away with voting for it, as they don't have any seats to lose. The Liberals might, just might, have voted, in part, for it - but- they stood to lose everywhere.

Harper removed it from the strategic tactics fo the Liberals and from the Bloc.

Right now, Ignatieff is moving quickly; he's declaring that the whole idea is and was - his. And that he and he alone, 'set up' Harper to do this. He's ignoring that he, Ignatieff's goal was pure political power for himself. He wants to win the leadership. Harper had to do it - to keep the country together and stop the 'identity political games'.

I have another take on this issue. It's called the Plains of Abraham. Fact-Brits defeated the French.
Ergo, the Country belongs to the Brits by dint of force.
The French were defeated by the Brits.
End of story.

This was a strong move for Harper and also for Canada.The other parties have been left in the dust and everyone will forget about the elephant in the room for a while.The stick that Harper used for the BQ was to mention all Canadians in and from Quebec not just the separatists.

Still dont know what to think....need to see the speech.

At least it is only a parliamentary resolution....but will it just make things worse...dont know.

If it makes all of this go away and takes the wind out of seperatist sails then I can live with it. If not....well I remain wary....I like letting sleeping dogs stay sleeping

As an aside though.. can you believe Mr. Layton?
Here was a chance to stand up and be counted as a proud Canadian, and all he could do was bleat and blather on about how Canada could be better if we became a more socialist country..what a maroon..

Is it true that Ralph Klein's last act as Premier of Alberta is to declare Alberta a 'nation'? Boy wouldn't that cause a stir?
As Ibbitson was saying, Quebec who?