North Korea having a bomb is bad enough, but we all have to realize it won't stop there. Iran has been working with North Korea on missile technology, and we have to assume they've been cooperating on nuclear developments as well.
The counter terrorism blog has a piece on the latest developments.
I think we have to assume the era of nuclear-armed terrorist groups is imminent.
Update: Amid rumours of North Korea preparing a second test, the real time seismic readings at Inchon, Korea show new activity. Could be normal seismic activity, though.
Just proving why they are the axis of evil their sure not using it for peaceful purposes
By God, this calls for Diplomacy and Negotiation, and possibly even the threat of Sanctions! Kofi Annan will look after this!
Thankfully, we have leaders like Prime Minister Jack Layton, and President Robin Williams!
I feel secure.
Well, yes, it is very tempting to mock the U.N., or the earlier attempts at appeasement by Clinton, Carter and company. But the unfortunate fact is there never were any good options for dealing with North Korea, unless you were prepared to see Seoul get flattened.
And neither Clinton nor Bush (nor the South Koreans) were prepared to do that.
"unless you were prepared to see Seoul get flattened"
I see, speculation has replaced fact has it?
Perhaps you'd care to tell us how this chicken little - the sky is falling, the sky is falling - speculation has any real and direct impact on your life half way around the world.
Is it me, or does that siesmic reading look bigger than the last test?
Kofi is out: golden handshake.
Maurice Strong-Tongsun Park's Man-in-the-Moon is up. ...-
SOUTH KOREAN TO LEAD UNITED NATIONS
South Korea's foreign minister [Ban Ki-moon] will be formally endorsed as the secretary general of the United Nations today after emerging as the best of a weak field of candidates.
national newswatch
"He owes his appointment to his Asian background and the lack of an outstanding flaw"
What outstanding credentials.
Kevin - North Korea isn't going to flatten Seoul, they'd in effect flatten themselves. It's impossible to do surgical strikes with nuclear bombs in close quarters. You really think they haven't noticed they'd get a big dose of radioactivity too? They're crazy, but, not suicidal.
Why not mock Clinton and the UN? Clinton appeased the NK's with aid, buying them lots of time. They got their bomb up and running on his watch. The UN is just a useless sewer that ought to be moved out of NYC to some Banana Republic.
I heard it said by a commentor on FOX that China refuses to clamp down hard on a marginally starving NK because it doesn't want the refugee problem if the regime falls. How stupid is that, humanitarian aid after the fall or nuclear fallout in their future. The Chinese are a large part of the problem.
Penny wrote " heard it said by a commentor on FOX that China refuses to clamp down hard on a marginally starving NK because it doesn't want the refugee problem if the regime falls. How stupid is that, humanitarian aid after the fall or nuclear fallout in their future. The Chinese are a large part of the problem."
Not much different than the weapon that Castro uses...."i'll open the prisons and let the boats cross to Florida"
On other points Clinton is to be criticized for not engaging in aid not sanctions....but the US never lived up to its promise of building the light water reactor....not that this is an excuse.
For all of the criticism of the Bush admin, it is doing this one correctly. Leveraging the regional interest rather than imposing it.
Has it been confirmed that it was a nuclear as opposed to a conventional explosion? The trump card on the Chinese is a nuclear Japan. That may happen anyway....
Mr "Ronrey" (team america reference) may yet find himself with a Chinese bullet in his head if he keeps this up.
As I said earlier, I don't think the North Korean nuclear test is the big story tonight.
I think it's a ruse. I believe it is a distraction.
Charles Johnson posted a story tonight that I consider bigger: a possible attack on the home of English-speaking civilization?
Britain, i.e., London.
Report: UK Metro Police Chief Issues Ominous Warning
http://tinyurl.co.uk/nsxk
It's speculative so don't take your eye or thoughts off of North Korea and Japan, but consider it in context. It may be part of a larger plan.
Commentator Stephen had some great analysis about the consequences for and likelihood of internment, but he missed my larger point because I didn't communicate it clearly.
My point isn't about the alleged injustice of internship during wartime, my point is the grave threat that Britain faces in the short term and that North Korea's nuclear test may only be a prelude to a WMD terrorist attack on London launched by North Korea's ally, Iran.
Is Britain in Danger of Imminent WMD Strike?
http://tinyurl.co.uk/nsxk
Penny - the threat to Seoul wasn't nuclear. Seoul is unfortunately within artillery range of North Korea. Long before they had nukes they dug in thousands of artillery pieces to threaten Seoul.
Any air strikes or serious confrontation with the North Korea risked an immediate retaliation on Seoul.
Kevin's understanding is perfectly correct. There never in military history has existed such a concentration of artillery pieces as are targeted on Seoul.
Any fight with North Korea would be very bloody. It wouldn't be an Iraq situation, topple the regime with a couple thousand friendly casualties (across all levels of severity from minor to fatal).
The numbers would be much higher.
A war against North Korea would deliver casualty numbers never seen in a regional conflict.
The numbers would be in the millions as Seoul came under direct artillery attack. The result would be anihilation of Pyongyang by cruise missiles. The whole peninsula would be a smoking ruin.
The most important fallout from this test will be Japan ditching pacifism and re-arming, including Nukes. Seems like a forgone conclusion now.
Where's Mo Strong while all this is going on?
He spends a lot of time in China.
What's the latest shameful amount of money we send to that commie regime?
It is definitely time we call Little Kimmie Dung- Head of NK to heel, that would be with the higher-heeled booties he wears so he's a little higher than a grasshopper. Sanctions won't matter, his people are all starving anyway.
Colin, you can't "anihilate" Pyongyang by cruise missiles (with conventional warheads).
We don't have enough of them.
The war would be multi-faceted and vastly more complicated not to mention longer.
Even with nuclear weapons in numbers that are likely, the entire peninsula wouldn't be a smoking ruin.
That is an exageration.
You're right, I belive, in your last conclusion. And I think Australia might as well.
*believe
Calm down. The axis is Pakistan / Iran ..
Kim has just said .. ** Me too!** That*s all = TG
Liz J,
I think you have it there. Little Kimmie is scared and broke. Naturally he wants to let us know he has a big firecracker.
He has nothing else much. [Napolean complex?]
Tons of marching soldiers but not much depth in arms. After the first blast, he would likely be a crunched crockroach.
Don*t extend your hand to a frightened dog.
Just let him sit while you feed him foreign aid. . er, dog biscuits. =TG
PS: Does anyone know offhand if N. Korea has any significant Muslim population? I suspect not. = TG
penny-
Clinton did a much better job of containing NK's nuclear ambitions than Bush did. The Bush administration's handling of the matter is a complete farce of brain dead diplomacy and empty threats.
Will GREENPEACE go there to protest will JIMMY CARTER go there will BILL CLINTON go there to whine about it? SCREW GREENPEACE
Jose, I hate to spoil your ever so reasoned and fact laden drive by, but:
"If Iraq's nuclear policy in the 1990s constituted a "decade of defiance," Bill Clinton's negotiations with North Korea represented a "decade of delusion." Evidence that North Korea was violating the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty surfaced within weeks of Clinton's first inauguration. After a year of inaction allowed Pyongyang to create at least one nuclear weapon, the emboldened Stalinists announced their formal withdrawal from the treaty. It seemed North Korean officials were angling for a payoff. They must have realized they struck the jackpot when Clinton named tough-as-nails Jimmy Carter as his principal negotiator."
"Under the final terms of the Agreed Framework approved in October of 1994, Clinton agreed to provide the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" (DPRK) with two light water nuclear reactors and a massive allotment of oil. The U.S. agreed to ship 500,000 metric tons of oil annually in response to the North's pretense that the energy-starved backwater had developed the nuclear facility to generate power. These shipments have cost taxpayers more than $800 million to date - a bargain compared with the $6 billion spent on constructing the nuclear reactors, which now empower North Korea to produce 100 nuclear bombs each year."
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5368
Where is Maurice Strong? Follow the green-greed to Maurice Strong. Where is Tongsun Park? ...-
Was North Korea testing a suitcase nuke?
The US has detected a second subkiloton nuclear blast on the Korean Peninsula, according to the Australian, in what is labed "breaking news".
From correspondents in Washington October 10, 2006 US intelligence has detected an explosion of less than one kilotonne in magnitude in North Korea but has not been able to determine whether it was nuclear or not, a senior intelligence official said.
The official, who asked not to be identified, said that first-time nuclear tests historically have been in the several kilotonne range.
“We are aware that there was a sub-kilotonne explosion in North Korea,” said the official. “We have not been able to determine at this point whether it was in fact nuclear.” ...-
belmont club
USATODAY.com - North Korea pulls out of non-nuclear treaty
North Korea has warned that it would regard any UN action against it as an act of war. Maurice Strong, a special adviser to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, ...
www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-04-09-north-korea-usat_x.htm
penny,
That's hardly a rebuttal. The simple fact is that wether you like him or not (and I imagine you don't) Clinton was able to contain NK's nuclear ambitions even though that means indulging NK in a bit of blackmail (which is penny ante stuff compared to what Quebec has pulled off on the rest of Canada). As unsavoury as that may be it's hardly as if the blackmail is going to get easier to deal with now that NK has nukes is it?
He also used the threat of real military force which NK took seriously and renegotiated unlike George W's half assed threats when he transfered a few more bombers within striking distance and did some limp wristed sabre rattling. NK didn't take him seriously and he withdrew the bombers, pathetic.
It could have been worse. George W could have been president during the Cuban Missile crisis.
N.Korea can now blackmail US
The Tribune (India) ^ | October 10, 2006 | News
Analysis by K. Subrahmanyam
The North Korean nuclear test was unique in its being announced before hand. In the case of China and Pakistan preparations for the tests were known to the world before hand. Yet they did not make an official announcement of their intention to test. North Korea is also the first country that was a member of the NPT and endorsed the indefinite and unconditional extension of the treaty, then withdrew from the Treaty and has now conducted a test. North Korea does not cite nuclear threats from neighboring powers as the justification for its acquisition of nuclear weapons. The US...
free republic
The Mo in the Moon, Mo Strong, that is.
Kim and Maurice Strong have met Moon how many times? Where? When? Was Tongsun Park eavesdropping? Blackmail/Greenmail; same thing.
Maurice Strong now has the UN in his hands. ...-
Secretary-General designate has hands-on experience of North Korea
CALUM MACDONALD October 10 2006
If anyone knows how to handle the intractable Kim Jong-il, it may just be Ban Ki-Moon.
Mr Ban, whose nomination as the next Secretary-General of the UN is expected to be endorsed by the general assembly later this week, has hands-on experience of dealing with his neighbours in the northern half of the Korean peninsula.
The South Korean Foreign Minister played a leading role in six-nation talks aimed at ending North Korea's nuclear ambitions and, while those talks were ultimately unsuccessful, the experience of dealing directly with one of the most closed and paranoid regimes in the world will stand Mr Ban in good stead for the years ahead. ..-
The Herald
It could have been worse. George W could have been president during the Cuban Missile crisis.
Give me a break. My Cuban son-in-law and his family would have prayed to have been that lucky. This might come as a shock to you but most Cuban Americans are staunchly Bush supporters.
I see a lot of speculation about the size and whether it was a dud, or even happened. Is it possible the blast was small because it came from a small weapon? One easy to transport, hide? etc.
As for blaming Bush for this; give me a break. What's he supposed to do? He's spread thin, has very little support as it is, and his hands are tied by the diplomatic inclinations of the U.N. and it's members. All that and, the lack of action on Iran.
TG:
Muslim extremists and Little Kimmie would have a lot of mutual interests at this time. The entire sane, civilized, free World had better do more than send out warnings and limp sanctions. It may come down to military action to disable the Little Goon's nuclear capabilities and haul him out as a trophy.
"Concern mounts". "Stirs critics". Kim chortles.
Maurice Strong is jubilating: The East is Red.
Japan shivers; cowers, frozen with fear.
Iran's mullahs smirk, grin, and laugh. ...-
BBC News | AMERICAS | Bush's 'evil axis' comment stirs critics
Concern mounts about US President George W Bush's plans for Iran, Iraq and North Korea after he brands them an "axis of evil".
Saturday, 2 February, 2002, 06:30 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1796034.stm
Harry,
Long before there was the threat of Nukes, NK was basically untouchable except by a strike using multiple tactical nukes along the boarder. The only way this would have been done (by any sane leader of any sane country) is if NK commenced shelling of Seoul. You would have risked an escalation (China would not have been happy with nuked going off in their neighbours territory) as well as shifting winds blowing fallout over SK.
It is a the scary fact that NK doesn't have thousands of artillery pieces on the southern boarder with SK, they have between 2 and 3 million. It is estimated that from the time NK commences a full artillery strike against Seoul that it would take 3 hours to flatten a city of 10 million souls (no pun intended... Boo! Hiss!) NK has never needed nukes to be virtually untouchable. They have 10 million people as their hostages.
I'm not sure what alternate reality you live, Harry, but saying that there were no feasible alternatives was certainly not "speculation" but cold fact.
To all posters, left and right, that blame the fact that NK now has nukes on their bogyman of choice (with special mention to Jose who shows an incredible ignorance of basic logic,) the blame doesn't lie with any leader of the USA.
The blame lies with NK and with a possible second to Pakistan.
Clinton did not sway NK one way or another, nor did he slow down the process at all. There was no containment - just self-delusion on the part of the logically-challenged like Jose. NK just took Clinton's bribes and kept full-speed ahead with his nuke program. Clinton shouldn't have bribed NK (as it sends the wrong message) but he couldn't stop them either. Clinton should have enacted sanctions and hoped that they collapsed on their own. Clinton can't be blamed for NK's nukes as he really didn't have a way of stopping them. He did make matters worse by proving themselves impotent. As this issue was the responsibility of the UN and Clinton could do nothing anyway, he should have deferred to the UN and declined to negotiate with NK directly. Even W's route of multi-party negotiations wasn't a good idea. When you have no options, it just shown an empty hand to get involved. It's always a bad thing to show a lack of power. You only play your hand when you have something in it - otherwise fold and let the UN play its losing hand.
W was not the cause of NK's nuke program either unless you think the NK leader really is a deity and could foresee W's election a decade before it happened or think that W should have invaded or nuked NK.
Not every action by every nutcase is the fault of the Americans. Responsibility for the world's actions lies with the perpetrators - not the world's designated sheriff. Even the lefties who decry American "unilateralism" blame all the worlds problems on the Americans when they don't act unilaterally and solve them anyway. It's a particularly nutty outlook... Given that this is the job of the UN and the lefty's love the UN, I assume this is a way to shift blame away from the institution that they love to the one they hate. But it's still nutty.
What is scary with NK is not it's possibility of war with SK. I doubt this would happen. All "dear leader" is interested in is respect to fluff up his fragile ego and bribes to keep his crappy, Stalinist economy going so a few million more people don't starve. The really scary part is NK's habit of selling its technology to Iran. If Iran gets the nuke, it's far more likely (even probable) that Iran would either use it themselves of provide it to a terrorist group. Iran can be stopped if we are willing to do it. Most of us are not. If we allow Iran the nuke, we will most likely end up in nuclear war. I suppose I can't state that as a hard fact but it's more than mere supposition. A'ma'nutter, the leader of Iran, has stated that he is willing to sacrifice 1/2 of his own population in order to exterminate the Jews. That is the last person on earth that can be trusted with nukes. It would be a less damaging option to have a regional conventional war that a global nuclear one (really the only type of nuclear war given that fallout blows around quite a bit...)
Warwick, I've got a three word rebuttal for you "Cuban Missile Crisis"
Warwick said: "That is the last person on earth that can be trusted with nukes."
Ahmajihad is the frontman/mouthpiece for the Islamic mullahs of Iran. ...-
http://www.voy.com/178771/44558.html
Layton where are you? We need talks
BERLIN, Sep 29 (IPS) - Amnesty International has issued an urgent appeal calling on its members to write letters to the Republic of Iran asking them
not to stone seven women.
Nearly all of the women have been sentenced to die by stoning for adultery. Officially Iran had placed a moratorium on the cruel and painful practise in 2002, but Amnesty claims sentencing continues.
The group has received credible reports that two people were stoned to death in May.
Under Shari’a law, a prisoner is buried up to her breast, her hands restrained.
Rules also specify the size of the stones which can be thrown so that death is painful and not imminent.
Both men and women can be sentenced to die by stoning.
In practise, however, an overwhelming number of women receive that penalty.
Jose,
Here's one for you:
"What a twit"
Jose,
If you prefer a 3-word rebuttal more in keeping with JFK, here's another appropriate response:
"Bay of Pigs"
Or,
If you prefer Clinton:
"Kosovo Liberation Army"
Given your lack of knowledge in general and your inability to comprehend what you may have heard, let me know if you need help with that last one. Hint: it has to do with the 10,000 dead civilians and the Chinese embassy bombing to stop a non-existent genocide...
The world is that much closer to seeing nukes being proliferated among rogue states. You're busy making excuses for an incompetent leader and calling critics names. Nice one.
Jose,
You clearly entirely missed the content of my original post. I suggest you re-read.
Don't listen to him he's not on our side.
Insult.
Repeat.