Green Hypocrisy

" Like asking themselves why, in the age of Internet conferencing, such international jetsetting is even necessary "

why indeed.

why why why do they have to meet face to face??

why open themselves to this criticism ???

internet conferencing could be done 100 times more often and still cost less than the airfare alone, regardless of the CO2 figures.

because it is human nature to selectively ignore 'things' which dont fit in the wants and desires and personal gratification factor, in this case the perks and high profile and ego massaging nothoin that since they are the ones doing the jetsetting, they must be special and important.

Story from tyee says Ottawa killed Kyoto in 2002.

Tyee is a gutless, hypocritical, Green wonder.

Who was Prime Minister in 2002?

None other than: AdScam Jean Chretien.

Chretien killed Kyoto.

...-

Story here:

How Ottawa Sabotaged Our Kyoto Pledge in 2002

Chretien: protected petro profits

Quiet deal with oil industry locked in failure.

By Mitchell Anderson
Published: October 4, 2006

TheTyee.ca

I’m on the subway the other day and this goth girl sits down next to me. She’s got a button on her knapsack that reads “animals are little people with fur coats.” I have a good look at her – she’s dressed in a full-length black leather duster with thigh-high black leather boots.

Fur bad, skin not so bad, I guess.

I used to see Bob Hunter on Queen Street once in a blue moon; he usually wore a black leather jacket and black leather cap. I once saw him tear open something with his teeth and spit the packaging out onto the ground.

Good article/opinin piece...seems to be an observasion close to the character of those who sween for the Green doomsday cult (and the profiteers who prey on them)....was Dave Suzukie in forst class on this plain...he never flies second class ;-)

I remember Barbra Streisand from the comforts of her utility guzzling estate imploring the masses to hang their laundry outside rather than use dryers.

Give us a break.

How to reduce carbon dioxide emmissions?

No problem, just stop breathing!!

Great article about these hypocrites. Here is a quote from Al Gore when interviewed about his 'factual movie':

Q: There's a lot of debate right now over the best way to communicate about global warming and get people motivated. Do you scare people or give them hope? What's the right mix?

Al Gore: I think the answer to that depends on where your audience's head is. In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.

This was from;
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2006/05/09/roberts/

One week Branson is shelling out $3 Billion to help fight global warming. The next week he's showing off his spaceship that'll fire tourists off into space so he can make a buck...

Hmmmmmmmmmm... if I scratched my head any harder over this one, I'd reach the cream filliing.

I’m on the subway the other day and this goth girl sits down next to me. She’s got a button on her knapsack that reads “animals are little people with fur coats.” I have a good look at her – she’s dressed in a full-length black leather duster with thigh-high black leather boots.

Fur bad, skin not so bad, I guess.

I used to see Bob Hunter on Queen Street once in a blue moon; he usually wore a black leather jacket and black leather cap. I once saw him tear open something with his teeth and spit the packaging out onto the ground.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt

sorry Matty, but I goota call bulcrp on you. proof please, or leave this type of biased comment out. What grade are you in BA?

oh ya.

good old Babs the ultra-Democrat.

I never liked her singing, her acting or her politics.

anybody got a deal on a used barge sose I can hog tie Babs and her ilk and scuttle the thing somewhere in mid-Atlantic?

Reminds me of how the enviromentalists who protest gainst logging by sitting in trees in plywood and 2 x 4s in their platforms they go around and wave paper and cardboard sign in the air they make mindless junk like FERNGULLY and HOOT and several other dumb eco-freak movies when a wood by product CELULOUS is used in all picture and movie film they live in wooden houses and use electrricity in their homes and how many of them drive SUVs? with those stupid SAVE THE RAINFORESTS,SAVE THE WHALE,SAVE THE REDWOOD,SAVE THE SPECKLED BELLIES NOSE FLY bumper stickers

following MATTS'lead, I saw this well dressed business man pumping gas into his BMW the other day. He wore a button that said "I HATE GAYS, THE ENVIRONMENT, BLACKS, AND ALL YOU EASTERN BASTARDS" what is the alliance/reform party thinking????

Conservatives will bring much needed sanity to the nation on the environment. Hypocrisy abounds, from what Mississauga Matt describes on “the street” to our polticos.

The USA has shown that it can improve environmental goals twice as effectively as Canada did under Chrétien/Martin. However, the hypocritical Martin sat with Clinton in Montreal at the environmental conference and belittled Bush while Canada’s record didn’t measure up to USA environmental accomplishments.

McGuinty is now showing his true colours on this matter and they ain’t green. Despite McGuinty’s bashing of Harris, in fact it was Harris who challenged the auto companies to improve emissions, meanwhile McGuinty who is in bed with Buzz’s unions has this to say “"One thing we will not abide is any effort on the part of the national government to unduly impose greenhouse-gas emission reductions on the province of Ontario at the expense of our auto sector." In other words Liberals are the party of big business, follow the money ... Liberal behaviour is akin to a banana republic.

For years I have questioned all the envirowackos on how they get to where they are protesting, and what kind of house, utilities etc they use. The best hyprocricy I saw was a cbc news program (at one time they made good ones) re the protestors in london, to ban cdn furs. Large group out on a winter day. The cbc interviewed one elderly woman, while the photographer scanned her from top to bottom, wearing a fur coat, hat, muff, and fur lined boots. I thought he should have won an award for that bit.

... sorry Matty, but I goota call bulcrp on you. proof please ...

Yes, I suppose a guy like you would "hoofta" call "bulcrp."

buzz is so entertaining. Screaming for subsidies for his unionized plants to turn out gas guzzlers while the non union plants rapidly overtake the Big 3, without subsidies, by designing and producing exciting, powerful, fuel efficient cars.

Buzz & all his union auto pals are dinosaurs waiting for the metero to finally kill off that Big 3 + Big Union business model that is extinct - they just haven't taken their last breath.

The real auto industry in Ontario is doing fine. The Big 3 subsidized + unionized auto industry is toast waiting to be buttered.

"following MATTS'lead, I saw this well dressed business man pumping gas into his BMW the other day."

Ah, stop whining. I gave you a loonie for cleaning my windshield, didn't I?
These squeegee kids are never happy.

Hypocrisy abounds, in all walks of life, not just environmentalism. Just because some enviros don't walk the walk, doesn't mean the whole thing is a hoax. When Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites, do you think he was saying that God is a hoax?

And then there are the enviros who do walk the walk. Jim Merkel does his speaking tours by bicycle. You've never heard of him, have you? Pretty tough getting the word out if you do all your travel under your own power. Sure, internet conferencing is great, but it doesn't get you on television.

Hans - I can't believe it. You are usually pretty close to the mark. Stop breathing?!! Relax, man! The CO2 you breathe out comes from the food you eat which ultimately comes from plants (even if it comes via meat), and the plants use CO2, so it's a closed loop.

Molarmauler - Branson isn't "shelling out" anything - he's reinvesting in "greening" his own operations so he'll have a lead position in trendy "green" transportation - and make even more money.

This is endemic in the Bay Area. Quite often, when I'm out bicycling (either to a consulting gig or just for fun), I see motor vehicles with "environmental" bumper stickers. I'm soooo glad that those folks care so much about the environment.

Another favorite is a bumper sticker saying "Live simply that others may simply live" - on a $35,000 car. That's certainly my idea of simple living.

There are problems with any movement, including the environmental movement. In BC many supposedly environmental organizations who are opposed to expanding the Trans Canada Hwy and twinning the Port Mann Bridge are in reality lobbyists for wealthy real estate interests.

Still, I would like to know who funds the "TCS" website, as if there's any doubt. Isn't it a bit of a giveaway that one of their blurbs is a blast at the Royal Society for not being scientific enough?

Here is something from nomdenet, posted October 5, 2006:

McGuinty is now showing his true colours on this matter and they ain’t green. Despite McGuinty’s bashing of Harris, in fact it was Harris who challenged the auto companies to improve emissions, ...

Well, that's certainly news to me. I didn't know that any Canadian province had any jurisdiction or program in the field of auto emissions. I thought that in Canada the federal DOT did all that. I know that in the US the State of California is a leader in terms of emission standards, but that's because that one state has such a huge market it's able to effect the market. I don't want to injure unduly the pride of Ontarians, but frankly they don't have a big enough market to have the same effect, despite the grandiose delusions of such Ontario-First pundits as Globe and Mail yahoo Thomas Walkom.

The enviroweenies have simply started up their own cottage industry around their church of nature worship. It survives almost entirely on tithes from various government agencies brought about by their own lobbying of those agencies. It is basically a parasitic situation similar in nature to the modus operandi of the soon-to-be-extinct (hopefully) Status of Women (actually, Status of Marxist/Leninists would be more appropriate)

Here's athought:

cut the environmental gasses by shipping David Suzuki, the NDP and the Liberals to Afghanistan. We need some cannon fodder for the Taliban.

I'd also ask why it's necessary to hold all these "conferences" the the environmentalists, politicians and leaders all love to attend at our expense. Ever hear of vido-confrencing?

And, maybe our political mavins could get their lazy asses out of the big limos they all arrive in and WALK or JOG or RUN.

I suppose I'm being to foolishly simplistic! But, the old saying is, "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way."

How did it happen ?? How did the Green Hypocrisy Movement gain ANY credibility ?? Simple. .. think, MSM, CBC, Suzuki, Gore.

The Media will always go along with ANYTHING that will make a "good" story. If it is something that pits one against the other and is subject to unprovable claims, good, great for selling papers. Think Kyoto, UN, IPCC, Hockey Stick Graph. Fortunately all those have been proven to be a fraud, but the Media will milk it until some better Hoax comes along.

Laura:

Sorry, I didn't put my smiley in... :) Better?

This comment was put in as black farce...

With all the jawing about Kyoto and the endless chatter and study about greenhouse gases, the pregnant question is what about some practical implementation?

Maybe I'm just an "enviro Klutz" but the Krebs cycle is the one that produces CO2 and water. Commonly known among mammals, including humans, as breathing.

CO2 is cited as the 'offending' greenhouse gas due to the burning of fossil fuels.

Then we have CAW prez Buzz "I don't know which party I belong to" Hargrove resisting attempts at making North American vehicles more fuel efficient.

Some spin offs would be less dependence on ME oil, less greenhouse gases, more enviro-friendly NA vehicles, means more NA rather than import car sales, means less union jobs due to more mechnanization of the production plant, means less union dues and more profits to NA companies, which according to lefty persuasion profit is evil.

Therefore we stall on plant overhauls, because Buzz is addicted to the union dues money train.
Thanks for being so obvious Buzz...

So we delay the inevitable, because its good for Buzz's wallet? Money from the corp. to the union is good. Money away from the union is bad...even if it helps the environment. Check.

Many here have asked the obvious question; "Why Jets and not video conference ?? Simple. The "meeting" is NOT about truthfull dialogue. It is about preaching to convert. BRIMSTONE & FIRE would lose something-in-the-translation if not in person.

Does this mean Taliban Jack and all his faithful followers need to turn in their Volvos, Saabs, Subarus, BMWs, Toyotas, for a bicycle or a donkey?

It would be fitting to see asses riding asses. What would they say about Taliban Jack riding an ass into Ottawa? Hail Messiah?

I noticed in the article that the Guardian's columnist's name was "George Monbiot".

Is that the European spelling of "moonbat"?

Does this mean Taliban Jack and all his faithful followers need to turn in their Volvos, Saabs, Subarus, BMWs, Toyotas, for a bicycle or a donkey?

It would be fitting to see asses riding asses. What would they say about Taliban Jack riding an ass into Ottawa? Hail Messiah?

Posted by: Doug at October 5, 2006 12:43 PM

You know Doug, I am getting a bit tired of this "Taliban Jack" stuff. It's an intentionally dishonest and utterly gutless little smear, as you well know, and it's getting kind of boring.

Jack Layton does practice what he preaches on GHGs and transit, in as much as he doesn't own a car. That's not to say he doesn't ride in one, ... he came to our NDP BBQ in Mission this summer in one of the member's Chev Suburban ... but I guess you gotta change the world one bit at a time, eh?

You may have heard Brian Stewart on the CBC last nite saying that according to his discussions with people in Afganistan, the military people are now pretty much of one mind, that some kind of talks involving the Taliban as well as Pakistan and the Karzai/Warlord Govt will be needed. The problem is that while the army people all figure this, the political minds are coming along rather more slowly.

Some spin offs would be less dependence on ME oil, less greenhouse gases, more enviro-friendly NA vehicles, means more NA rather than import car sales, means less union jobs due to more mechnanization of the production plant, means less union dues and more profits to NA companies, which according to lefty persuasion profit is evil.

Therefore we stall on plant overhauls, because Buzz is addicted to the union dues money train.
Thanks for being so obvious Buzz...

So we delay the inevitable, because its good for Buzz's wallet? Money from the corp. to the union is good. Money away from the union is bad...even if it helps the environment. Check.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at October 5, 2006 12:32 PM

What a fabricator! Not only is this all pure invention on your part, ... it doesn't even make sense.

For all his faults, and as a Liberal he has many, Hargrove has been in favour of moving towards more fuel efficient cars.

Mind-boggling, jaw-dropping, crapola in this report. Stupendous ignorance/or malicious reporting of Parliamentary procedure by a hack reporter.

The bill approved was a private member's bill from the Liberals.

Stupendous bsssss here:

"the Liberals, Bloc Quebecois and NDP teamed up to defeat the government in a 152 to 115 vote."

The government did not bring this private member's bill forward for a vote. The Liberals moved the motion; not the Conservatives.

The MSM is lying, as usual. ...-

The government was not defeated on anything. It's all Kyoto-CO2 flimflam by the Liberals/NDP/Bloc. ...-

Tories defeated in vote on Kyoto

Thu Oct 5 2006

By Mike De Souza

OTTAWA -- The minority Conservative government suffered a significant defeat at the hands of the opposition yesterday over legislation calling for the implementation of the Kyoto protocol on climate change.
Although Conservative MPs gave Environment Minister Rona Ambrose a warm round of applause as she rose to vote against the legislation, the Liberals, Bloc Quebecois and NDP teamed up to defeat the government in a 152 to 115 vote.
...
"The prime minister of Canada is saying: 'I want Canada to be an outlaw,' " said Montreal area Liberal MP Pablo Rodriguez, who tabled the private member's bill, C-288. "It's a (weird) message to be sending to the population." ...-
http://www.voy.com/178771/42432.html
(Report from Winnipeg Free Press)

Someone actually Paul Martin,(the only one who has Canadian values), and Willy Clinton together? Geeze eyes must have been sore after that.
Wonder if Martin enjoys wearing the leather jacket Buzzy Baby gave to him instead of Taliban Jack prior to the Election? Wonder too if Buzzy got his money's worth?
If Hargrove is in favour of fuel efficient cars how does he square that with Canadian made?

Many here have asked the obvious question; "Why Jets and not video conference ?? Simple. The "meeting" is NOT about truthfull dialogue. It is about preaching to convert.

No, it's more because everyone likes to vacation in nice locations, and if attending a few meetings with fellow travellers to bask in yr righteousness and exchange a few business cards is the price you have to pay for that, what the hell?

"'I want Canada to be an outlaw,' " said Montreal area Liberal MP Pablo Rodriguez, who tabled the private member's bill, C-288"

A LIBERAL sponsoring a Bill about being Kyoto compliant.

Now that's the kettle calling the pot black.

Canadians don't want us to be outlaws, that's why we turfed the criminals who make the LPC.

Go Rona go, real environmental leadership. Finally.

We used to have a eco-wacko living in our community he was even leader of one of those eco-wacko groups alwaying filing those stupid lawsuits to halt logging and he used to live in a log house and had another house with a wood burning waterheater then they wrote abig article on him and his group in RANGE MAGAZINE and after him and his group filed a lawsuit that cut off water to the KLAMATH BASIN farmers over two trash fish and well i read where actor LEONARDO DECAPPRIO flew in his own private jet from L.A. to WASHINGTON D.C then rode in a gas guzzling limo to a park to give big earth day speech WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOTCRITS and might i say the same for game show host BOB BARKER who opposes fur coats but wears his own leather shoes or those wackos who wear goose down jackets while whinning about fur

Sorry Bud, but taliban jack will stick, just like mr dithers, and rush to judgement. He asked for it and we will give it to him. And, I will always blame him for the increase in the deaths of cdn troops. He told the taliban that we in canada don't support the mission, and they take that as a sign of weakness in cdns. Pay attention to what OBL has said since 1990. What are we supposed to negotiate, you wont kill us infedils for a few weeks, if you all convert to our religion that practices human sacrifice.

Oh Budd, you need to catch up on your reading:

http://www.caw.ca/news/contactnewsletter/showissue.asp?name=issue&IssueID=557

"Hargrove urged the Canadian government, acting in concert with the U.S. and Mexican governments, to move immediately to correct this unbearable trade imbalance that has caused the loss of these 30,000 jobs at Ford – and tens of thousands of others at assemblers and parts-makers across the continent."

Gee 30,000 union dues paying members cut. That would hurt I suppose.

Could it be qualitative differences between NA and import vehicles? Just consult former NDP MP Phil Edmonston's annual text "Lemon Aid" and discover some answers. He has only been noting the differences in vehicle quality for 20 odd years.

When NA automakers increase the qualitative level of their vehicles at a competitive price points the union job bleed should resolve itself.

In the meantime, as the old saying goes:

"The beatings will continue, until morale improves."

Gee 30,000 members lost due to stupidity and intrangigence by management and unions who are now having their lunch eaten by import automakers.
That is enough members to populate a fair sized town. Of course, laying off a whole town; management just didn't see it coming.

Well I guess they deserve each other.

I'm with you, Mary. The name "Taliban Jack" should stick...although I do also like "Jack bin Layton" and "The New Dhimmicrats". Like you, I lay the blame for the recent deaths of Canadian troops right at the feet of Taliban Jack and the other leftist white flag wavers in this country...including a lot of the MSM.

I tried to BBQ truecanadianbeef. Tough as shoe plastic and tasted like how shit smells.

Yep, Buzz was so concerned about union layoffs that he didn't see that 30000 workers, enough to populate a small town, were going to get the sack by Ford, not to mention GM. 30000 workers? Yeah on the ball and protecting competitiveness and jobs!

Yesiree, management and union leadership working for the little guy. NOT!

Phil Edmonston's text "Lemon Aid" comes out annually detailing the qualitative differences between domestic and import vehicles. He's only been doing it for 20 years.

Keep up with your reading Budd.

Bud Campbell said:

"You may have heard Brian Stewart on the CBC last nite saying that according to his discussions with people in Afganistan, the military people are now pretty much of one mind, that some kind of talks involving the Taliban as well as Pakistan and the Karzai/Warlord Govt will be needed."

Yes, Bud. I caught that comment. I also quickly dismissed it. You know why? Because he didn't give any sources. Yes yes...I know...sometimes "insiders" have to be kept anonymous because if they rock the boat, they'll be in trouble. But that is surely not the case here because...

1) Responsible journalists always find something tangible to back-up what their "insiders" are leaking to them.

2) Stewart said that the military was, as you say, "pretty much of one mind." Really? Then let's see some interviews with military people. Doesn't have to be the top brass. Any of the foot soldiers who are there now or have returned to Canada will do. Recently, on this site, a reference was made to a great article that pointed out that, if the NDP really "supports our troops" (but wants to bring them home), then they should prove it by talking to those troops and showing that the NDP stance actually reflects the feeling of those people who we are sending into harm's way. The NDP hasn't done this (and won't).

If Layton were living in the US in the 1960's and 70's, he could make a valid claim that the US should negotiate terms of peace with the North Vietnamese because there was actually a government and political and military structure with which negotiations could be undertaken.

He could have also claimed to "support the troops" while wanting to bring them home because the average American soldier didn't think that they could win such a war without the hearts and minds of the people. There were too many disgruntled American draftees to deny people like Layton the claim that this was a fair argument. So, in that context, calling Layton something like "Hanoi Jack" would have been too much.

But, "Taliban Jack" is appropriate. With whom are the NATO forces to negotiate? If you or Mr. Layton can give me the name of their top general, their Minister of Foreign Affairs, Secretary of State, or something similar, we'll have a place to start.

What points can we negotiate with the Taliban? Give me an example of just one idealogy that the NDP (or the people of Afghanistan for that matter) can agree to and I will listen. Is stoning women OK in some circumstances? Is surgically removing the legs of non-believers OK with the NDP? Forbiding women from educating or being educated a good idea?

The heart of the NDP's argument that we should negotiate rests with the assumption that there is some reasonable middle ground that can be reached...Something that we can use to allow for a conditional surrender as opposed to an unconditional surrender. Let's hear it.

People like the NDP keep trying to oversimplify Afghanistan and compare it to Vietnam without understanding the enormous differences between the two.

And I am getting annoyed at the NDP arguing against the war and grasping at straws to try and justify their stance. They don't have the "not UN sanctioned" argument...so, they're just getting silly.

Let's face it, the Conservatives are for it...so the NDP must be against it. That's all that's going on here. Good versus evil is overlooked because it prevents the NDP from getting more TV time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is the old political axiom that Layton is holding onto here - and forget the implications. That's why he continues to be "Taliban Jack".

From a UK Telegraph article about the Gurkhas, a comment by their Brit commander:

"I held a Shura (meeting) with the town elders to discuss the deteriorating situation just before the attacks began," Major Rex said in an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph.

"Several of those present eyeballed me throughout, and I subsequently discovered they were the Taliban commanders coming to size me up."

Yeah....let's 'talk'.

Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/wmuslims05.xml

Hey, folks ..... the thread is supposed to be about environmental hypocrites and not the hypocritical New Dhimmicrats. We've gone through 40 or so postings and I see no mention of our own famous hypocrite ....... the pompous a$$hole David Suzuki.

Sorry Bud, but taliban jack will stick, ... And, I will always blame him for the increase in the deaths of cdn troops. He told the taliban that we in canada don't support the mission, and they take that as a sign of weakness in cdns.

Posted by: mary at October 5, 2006 02:30 PM

I'm with you, Mary. ... Like you, I lay the blame for the recent deaths of Canadian troops right at the feet of Taliban Jack and the other leftist white flag wavers in this country...

Posted by: John Luft at October 5, 2006 02:40 PM

Neither of you believes any of this. It's just an utterly dishonest and cowardly smear tactic.

It's the kind of thing that was fashionable in the 1950s, the kind of thing Joe McCarthy would have used, ... before he drank himself to death. To be behind the times is one thing, to be utterly dishonourable and behind the times is another.

Yep, Buzz was so concerned about union layoffs that he didn't see that 30000 workers, enough to populate a small town, were going to get the sack by Ford, not to mention GM. 30000 workers? Yeah on the ball and protecting competitiveness and jobs!

Yesiree, management and union leadership working for the little guy. NOT!

Phil Edmonston's text "Lemon Aid" comes out annually detailing the qualitative differences between domestic and import vehicles. He's only been doing it for 20 years.

Keep up with your reading Budd.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at October 5, 2006 02:46 PM

You're rambling, incoherent. Babbling. Maybe you've had too many beers with lunch?

Let's face it, the Conservatives are for it...so the NDP must be against it. That's all that's going on here. Good versus evil is overlooked because it prevents the NDP from getting more TV time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is the old political axiom that Layton is holding onto here - and forget the implications. That's why he continues to be "Taliban Jack".

Posted by: bryceman at October 5, 2006 02:49 PM

We agree there are political motives involved, but I think the shoe of partisanship first, responsible public policy second is stuck on the Tory foot, not Layton's.

Sorry to adjust the focus, but shouldn*t the greens of this world be zeroing in on stopping the Iran - Pakistan coalition?

Isn*t nuclear fallout a pollutant?

How about defusing the next intefada that seems to be building in FRANCE?

http://MeSoWest.blogspot.com

= TG

Yep, this Buds for you!

Butt, er Budd,

Have you sold your Volvo for an ass yet.

Oh, that's right, your Volvo was sold TO and ass.

Neither of you believes any of this.

Budd, I also believe it and I'll tell you why. Way back during the Viet Nam War, the North Vietnamese knew they could not win on the battlefield but they could win on the PR field.

The media couldn't find enough negative things to fill space and turned to making things up. Tet Offensive ring any bells? It was portrayed as a crushing defeat and it was; the media just got the losing side wrong. Gen. Giap said nothing boosted NVA morale as much as the American press.

Now the taliban, and al-qaeda and all the rest, are murdering scum who should be sent straight to hell as soon as possible. However, they aren't stupid. They know about the media's influence and they're using it. The hezb'allah thugs have a media relations wing, complete with business cards, and today they're gloating about their manipulation of the media this past summer.

The media couldn't get away with their nonsense if they didn't have the support of idiots such as taliban Jack and other mush-heads.

So, believing that the deaths of some of our soldiers is due to the support the scum get at home is not a stretch. To believe otherwise is beyond naive.