"Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were 'anti-Israel.' What do you think of this?"
Vote on the main page at CTV.ca.
As one commentor remarked a few days ago, let's see another online media poll go "horribly horribly wrong"!
Related: "The wife of prominent Liberal MP Irwin Cotler has quit the party in a fury over leadership front-runner Michael Ignatieff's assertion that Israel committed war crimes.
(link fixed)
Steve Janke has more.
UPDATE - it's getting lonely on the Ignatieff campaign bus.
Friday, October 13, 2006
My ResignationAs President of the Thornhill Young Liberals and as a delegate from the riding of Thornhill, I stand by Susan Kadis MP in her decision to resign as GTA Co-Chair of the Michael Ignatieff Campaign. I do believe Michael to be a strong leader but unfortunately at this time, I cannot reconcile his recent statements characterizing Israel's action in response to the kidnapping of its soldiers as a "war crime". As a matter of conscience, I, like Susan, am resigning as Director of Strategy and Operations for Ontario.
posted by Michelle Oliel @ 12:46 PM
h/t Jeff Drebit, in the comments.
Oct.14 morning update
Which airline(r) will Iggy and Denis Coderre use?
Challenger I, II, III,...? El Al? Air Hezbollah-Katyusha? ...
IN HIS PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY, IGNATIEFF SAID HE WOULD BE TRAVELLING TO ISRAEL TO LISTEN AND LEARN FROM THE JEWS IN ISRAEL .... NOW WILL HE ALSO VISIT THE HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANON TO BE FAIR TO BOTH SIDES .... ???!!!
Ignatieff has pompously declared: BOTH SIDES HAVE COMMITTED "WAR CRIMES" IN THE ISRAELI-HEZBOLLAH CONFLICT...!!!
Regardless what Iggy now says and does ... he has told French Quebecers and the muzis of Canada that the Israelis committed "war crimes" ... and by uttering those words that is enough for them to support the Ignatieff Liberals ... and that is what the Iggy camp intended to accomplish .... win back and hold on to the French and muzi vote .... so obvious .... !!!!
voy forums
They will probably pull the poll if the desired result does not quickly emerge.
Just like the Grope and Flail did with their little push poll on SSM. Looks like the current Grope and Flail poll on the 3 strikes proposal isn't going well either.
Canada Am has a similar poll, it has been holding steady 55-45% agree with what the Prime Minister has said, since 7am now 2pm est.
The one i like is the photo of Iggy Clenching his fist condemming the Pm's comments, (wow that should get Mrs. Cotler back in the party)
Give me a break Iggy & what you said don't count?.
The other thing is why has Taliban Jack been so quiet lately, I guess it is the old, Well if they are picking on him they are leaving me alone.
current standing on the CTV poll
Fair political dialogue 905 votes (56 %)
Unfair attack on opponents 711 votes (44 %)
Total Votes: 1616
Iggy is attempting to do today what Bob Rae did better yesterday.
My personal opinion is that Mr. Harper committed the gaffe on purpose to give Rae a boost in the race. Anything to have a Rae-led Liberal Party.
Amazing spin (even for Pravda) on the National last night.
1. They report Iggy’s statement.
2. They show PMSH’s statement condemning all of the Lib contenders for their lack of support for Israel.
3. They then show the other Lib candidates all complaining about what PMSH said, not what Iggy said.
Poor Iggy, left out of his own party’s “party”.
Speaking of spin .... The headline on the CTV.ca story says, "PM's anti-Israel comment disgraceful: Ignatieff".
Harper made an anti-Israel comment? Don't think so, but apparently that's what CTV wants the headline-skimmers to think.
"The wife of prominent Liberal MP Irwin Cotler" link leads to the NK monolith.
Taliban Flap-Jack has will have difficulty putting the ND's onside with Israel. Svend took care of that issue for them (ND's) a few years back.
Iggy is done like dinner as far as Lib leader.
My guess it will be Rae.
That would make crypto-communist Rae fighting for the left vote with Taliban Jack.
CPC up the middle with a majority.
Stay the course Stephen, the internet community is well into discrediting many of the MSM pundits because of their pro-left bias to boot!
your right about that doug: Just the twisted headline catcher is viewed, People do not read the whole article anymore.
It's like they all took the Evelyn Wood Sped Reding course.(early SNL days)
So if you happen to get into or overhear a conversation in the local coffee shop on a current political topic it is totaly misconscrewed therefore detest for the PM is circulated successfully by the left media.
I think it's important to consider what each person said.
Ignatieff said, in Quebec, that the Qana attack was a 'war crime', which is to say, it deliberately targeted civilians. He did not say that any international agency had declared it a war crime nor that such a conclusion required an international agency to make it; he said that he was himself a professor of the laws of war, and he himself stated that Qana was a war crime.
Harper said that his statement was consistent with the anti-Israeli position that has been taken by virtually all the candidates for the Liberal leadership, and that such a perspective wasn't 'helpful', that such a charge is a serious charge and he, Harper, didn't agree with the charge (war crime).
Then, Ignatieff replied that Harper's statement was playing crass politics with the issues of the Middle East and that this was disgraceful. Now wait a minute, wasn't that what Ignatieff was doing when he made the statement? Playing to the anti-war and anti-Israeli Quebecers?
Now, Ignatieff is saying that it's up to international agencies to declare a war crime. He didn't refer to that requirement in his original speech but defined himself as the expert in such international law.
Ignatieff is now saying that 'both sides' committed war crimes, based on Amnesty International and Human Rights Org.
And Ignatieff is also reworking what Harper said, and stating that Harper's critique of Ignatieff is a 'disgrace' and that the PM has no right to say that anyone who criticizes Israel is therefore an enemy of Israel. But Harper didn't say that. Harper said that he disagrees with Qana as a war crime, and that he found the Liberal candidates biased against Israel. Bias and criticism are not the same.
ET: That is correct in what you have pointed out as to what was said. I feel that doug is also correct as this is how the media can manipulate a rebutal to a question, by twisting the headlines just enough that no one will remember what the PM was elating too however they will remember the headline.
No different then the Lawand twist a few months back on CBC.
newsonline@ctv.ca
Write them to complain about their miswording.
From the video footage, the Prime Minister's comments re: Ignatieff were in response to a reporter's question during the Tough On Crime press conference. Has anyone seen enough of the press conference footage to know who asked the question, and from which news organzation?
ET, do you mind if I borrow your statement for an argument in another forum? You have put the facts much better than I could hope to.
Harper's comment was way over the top, like something Bush would say about Democrats supporting terrorists. Shameful.
Didn't the liberals disregard the jewish people back in WW11, when they refused to let boatloads of jewish people to disembark in Canada, and sent them back to Germany to be sent to the gas ovens.
Harper did not back down today when questioned. Soon we will see the stmts all lib contenders made on TV and in print during the conflict posted on the blogs. How many libs were at hezzie rallies. The question for cdns next election is, Do you want a party supported by terrorist sympathizers in Canada, to govern Canada. Are you prepared for sharia law. If you answer yes, vote lib or ndp.
If you want to take back our country, end political correctness, regain our standing in the international community, vote Conservative.
Iggy is going to Isreal, will he be allowed to enter the country, will he get a tongue lashing, will he survive. He made a very stupid stmt and the msm refuse to condemn him.
If Iggy wins then he has a divided party
If Iggy loses then the CPC faces Rae or Dion....
Harper wins in all three cases
Iggy is such a clever squirrel....got to like Paul Wells, take on him.
Harper's comments were dead on and the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. I think the liberals got caught in there usual preach what the voters want to hear mantra. The anti-isreal anti-war croud would eat it up, but Isrealies might see the liberals for what they are now.
By supporting no action, you allow good people to die and terrorists to win. Iggy sure didn't come out in the last couple of years blasting Hezbollah and the Palestine government for allowing all the rockets launched at Isrealy civilian targets.
"Harpers comments were way over the top".
So that would mean that Liberal MP's marching with a declared terrorist group is OK or Layton's NDP calling our troops terrorist is OK.
No i do not think the PM's comment's were over the top after the digracefull acts & comments we have seen over the past summer that were ignored by the left leaning mindset in Canada.
It seems to me that PMSH was only stating the obvious. Of the Liberal leadership contenders only Brison and Volpe supported Isreal in the recent conflict.
Incidently Saskboi, sitting Liberal MP's marched in a pro Hezbolah rally and not one LPC leadership candidate had word one to say.
BTW Hezbolah is a recognized terrorist organization so you make your own conclusions.
What I find most shameful is ignorance.
Syncro
Just checked and the headline now reads "PM's comment on Liberals disgraceful: Ignatieff"
SDA gets results!
I saw that!!! Poll is up to 61% now too!!
Bell Globe Media has a love affair with the LPC.
Anything a Liberal does can be justified by the muttonheads at BGM and will be.....
ON the other hand criticism of any LIberal Sacred Cow .... will net a Conservative the full spin cycle of righteous indignation from the BGM bunch...witness the caterwalling over PM Harper's comments on Liberal anti-Israel BIAS.
Today Ignatief tries to defend his comments on ware crimes by stating that "International Bodies" will decide what is or is not a crime!
How the sophist squirms in the light of day!
So today it's "international bodies" while yesterday it was "I'm an expert" Iggy who makes the call!?
Right Iggy keep squirming.
Gee, looks like Iggy is trying to bring back Vaudeville. There is more tap dancing and juggling going on in the Lieberal hopefull's camp than an Ed Sullivan special. Comedy too!
Here's Harper's rebuttal to Iggy's little indignation fit:
But an unabashed Harper has refused to back down on his assertion that "virtually all'' Liberal leadership hopefuls are anti-Israel.
Speaking to reporters Friday after reading to students at his daughter's Ottawa school, Harper said only Scott Brison and Joe Volpe condemned anti-Israel comments that were made by various Liberals during last summer's Israeli bombardment of Lebanon.
He said it's hypocritical of other contenders to criticize Ignatieff now when they kept mum last summer.
"I think it's a bit hypocritical for them to show their faces now. They should have done it before.''
Well said PMSH. Nothing to add.
zip - sure, borrow what you want.
I'm glad CTV's headline changed; I took Kate's advice and wrote them, about the nature of English grammar. The possessive (Harper's) possesses what follows, ie, 'anti-Israel comment'. But that wasn't true; he didn't make an anti-Israel comment; it was Ignatieff who did that.
Ignatieff is not stupid; I like his books, his support for the war, his analysis of the role of the US in the world. I certainly wouldn't want him, ever, as PM, because, in a strange way, he lives almost totally in some cloud, the realm of ideas. Formless floating ideas, unconnected to daily reality. I wonder if that's why he makes such gaffes. In the academic world, you can get away with that type of contradictory and ungrounded talk because you can debate, clarify, interpret - and go out for a coffee. None of your words matter a damn.
Harper is just as smart as Ignatieff, just as aware of ideas, but he is firmly grounded in reality.
I don't know why Bob is getting his shorts in a knot afterall the PM is calling it the way it happened, Yes Bob he defended Israel when everyone else was condemming them.
Yes Bob iam sure he also knew that your family is jewish, so why the tirate.
BTW: way to go there kate, SDA does get results.
Re: Iggy saying International bodies should decide, Maybe his advisors finally got through to him....Ig, if you say one more time I am/was a professor of
1) Human Rights
2) Law of War
3) Political Philosophy
4) ethinic minority rights
therefore I am
1) an expert
2) smarter than everyone else
3) not to be questioned
4) not required to be consistent
I will smack you upside the head.
I said from the beginning that Iggy's candidacy was all about him, his knowledge, his growth, his ability, his thoughts, this questions, his potential.
Liberals, save yourself the trouble and elect someone with less potential to absolutely devastate your party.....Ignatieff is a Liberal Kim Campbell or a smarter Paul Martin....at least elect Dion so you can stick to your tradition of electing an English guy next time.
Even the press is starting to think this guy is an arrogant bonehead rather than the 2nd coming.
Elect Iggy and you lose and continue the infighting. Iggy and Belinda should get along real well. If she thought Harper didnt value her....
Hey, Saskboy, the Dems sure don't make it any harder for terrorists here - close Gitmo, no to the Patriot Act, no to wiretapping, ignore the military, appease Iran, censor any criticism of the enemy's fascist religion in the lefty MSM, etc.
It's pretty obvious that, if polled, the vast majority of terrorists, when given a choice between the Democrats or Republicans, would choose to register as Democrats. Just change the names for Canadian parties. Ask yourself one question, if I am a ME terrorist and want to keep my lifestyle as unfettered as possible what parties in NA, if I was obliged to chose, would I register with?
I rest my case.
Just checked the g&m poll, still 68% for the 3strike law. Also read the comments re iggy and harper. You have to go to #15 before you get someone supporting iggy. Many pro Harper comments and lots of anti iggy. What happened, has the g&m discovered their overthetop coverage of dream boy is backfiring big time.
I put it down to Friday the 13th., and a black cat must have escaped.
SDA kicks sycophant ass!
CTV just got their ass handed to them by a girl. Speaking of which, Steyn just handed Wells' ass to him in a sidebar smackdown.
Its Twofer Friday!
Is it just my computer? When I click to vote at CTV, I get a blank screen...
I was watching CTV on the TV at the gym this morning at 6:30 a.m. (it was a tossup: CBC or CTV?) and they reported that the Prime Minister had said that virtually all of the Liberal candidates were anti-ISRAELI.
Did he not say they were anti-ISRAEL. Huge difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
If I'm right, then the CTV or more than usually scummy in their reportage. What jerks.
"SDA gets results!"
Hey! It just stopped raining in Toronto, too!
You DO get things done!
Sorry about the three in a row comments. But I've discovered something interesting.
I can't get onto the CTV site from the link at SDA.
But I can access the CTV site by doing a Web
search of the CTV on my own, and, voila, I
was able to vote.
Are these guys getting smart or is "smart" and "CTV" an oxymoron?
In the comments one guy summed up the Lieberal party "om M from Canada writes: This guy has a strong set of principles and if you don't agree with them he has another set."
Poll Result
Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were 'anti-Israel.' What do you think of this?
Fair political dialogue 4324 votes (63 %)
Unfair attack on opponents 2489 votes (37 %)
Total Votes: 6813
ET said:
"Ignatieff is not stupid; I like his books, his support for the war, his analysis of the role of the US in the world. I certainly wouldn't want him, ever, as PM, because, in a strange way, he lives almost totally in some cloud, the realm of ideas. Formless floating ideas, unconnected to daily reality. I wonder if that's why he makes such gaffes. In the academic world, you can get away with that type of contradictory and ungrounded talk because you can debate, clarify, interpret - and go out for a coffee. None of your words matter a damn.
Harper is just as smart as Ignatieff, just as aware of ideas, but he is firmly grounded in reality."
---------------------
That, my dear, is a very fine analysis. Brava! Slight quibble: Harper is therefore "smarter" considering the more expansive meaning of the word.
Remember the anti Kerry ad, showing flipflops. Does iggy have any of kerry's experts helping him on his campaign. He looks like Kerry, talks like him, acts like him and changes positions like him. Lets hope he loses like him. Wonder if he has received pkgs of flipflops like Kerry did.
Lets give him the same nickname Rush gives Kerry, the lurch. Does he have a rich wife like kerry, is he married, does he have a family, is he a closet gay. Why nothing about his family life.
Israel? Who gives a crap about Israel? It's a tiny little Asian nation of 6 million that depends on Canadian foreign aid and is located halfway around the world. Seriously, who cares if a Liberal leadership candidate is pro or anti Israel, Myanmar, Congo, or any other crappy third world nation dependent on Canadian aid?
I care about Canada, and question the patriotism and committment to western civilization of those who are obesessed with Israel. And here's a handy metric: if over half of your comments and blog posts over the past 6 months are about Israel rather than CANADA then you might be obsessed with Israel and are neither patriotic nor a supporter of western civilization.
Let's forget about the CanWest Israel meme for a moment and talk about taxes. And EI. And healthcare. And affirmative action. And immigration. And political correctness. Because some people are, conveniently, obsessed with Israel to the exclusion of any and all of the challenges facing Canada. Maybe they should move there, unless of course Israel has already met it's "goyim" immigration quota...
E-mail I just sent CTV:
I was watching your television news coverage this morning at 6:30 a.m. at the gym, and was deeply disturbed and, frankly, disgusted by your misquoting of what Prime Minister Stephen Harper said about the Liberals. Your reporters, more than once, referred to his saying (sic) that Liberal leadership hopefuls were "anti- Israeli."
Even I know that he said "anti-Israel." I saw him on television saying it. So did you, and you have purposely and maliciously misquoted him. I think this is pernicious and totally unprofessional and guess what? It's transparent. We can see what you're doing. We know you are pro-Liberal and anti-Conservative, and by misquoting our Prime Minister you have shown your true colours: unprincipled and lacking in journalistic integrity.
Is this a reputation you're happy with? If so, continue to spin the news for the Liberals. But your viewership will suffer, as will your reputation. Too bad you're willing to drag journalistic integrity through the mud.
Not a proud moment for CTV.
Sincerely (disgusted),
Att: "Low income Canadians": Iggy needs you.
Would you buy a "social housing" from Iggy?
Would you buy an "economic security plan" from Iggy?
Would you buy a "post-seconday education" from Iggy?
Would you buy a "low-income" from Iggy?
Would you buy a "vowing" from Iggy? ...-
Ignatieff sets out economic security plan for low income Canadians
TORONTO (CP) - Michael Ignatieff is vowing to improve access to social housing and post-secondary education for low-income Canadians
c news
A Kewpie doll to Ariela Cotler . For seeing what her husband & most Socialist Liberals don't these day's.
The left has been radicalized beyond political redemption. By pandering to the Jihadists while making common cause against Jews.
How anyone today can be Jewish, than stay with the liberals. After Harpers stance time & again for Israel. At the UN & every summit he's been too including the g8& francophone conference. Even going so far as to bully the rest into recognizing Israelis innocents as well.
Set against the Liberanos with there record of voting against Israel at the UN with the Islamofacists. If not at every turn denouncing them with the other Anti-Semites.
Is a deep mystery to me.
I salute this Women who has woken up. I wonder how hubby will do now, with no backup? Half the time its the Lady that’s has the real influence. I only hope more folks start to see the real circumstances as it is. On this sad rattled world.
Two quotes from the CTV story.
Have fun with this from Bob Rae "I just think it's absolutely appalling to lie and smear in this way," This from a lieberal!
Or this from Ignatieff "But being a friend means speaking honestly and this week I did that,...." and so did Steven Harper.
I love the sound of lieberal bleating in the morning.
Good analysis above regarding the potential results for the lieberal leadership race.
Now that Hedy is gone, I have to support the next most incompetent. Go Bob go, you and your buddy Buzz are a match made in heaven to drive Ontario voters to the CPC.
Ariela Cotler is an Israeli citizen who once worked in the Israeli PMs office, similar to the dual-citizenship Lebanese-"Canadians" who we airlifted.
Based on her actions it is logical to conclude she is a pro-Israel extremist who clearly cares more about Israel than Canada. If Israeli-"Canadian" Ariela Cotler were to renounce her Israeli citizenship then I will cheerfully withdraw the above comment.
Why is everything about Israel and her people?
Don't count on the Sheeple of Ontario to change their wool!
They are for the most part totally indoctrinated into the culture of complaint and entitlement that the Lib/Left love to foster. As CBC and CTV are well aware the constant drip of anti-conservative garbage will have a cumulative effect on the ovine majority.
"Why is everything about Israel and her people?"
No kidding. It reminds me of a "Stuttering" John Melendes skit from the Howard Stern show where Stuttering John, posing as a reporter, asked some politician: "D-D-Do you think the Academy of Motion Pictures has an anti-Buffy St. Marie bias?". Who cares?