Crossing From North To South

Gorby may not realize this since he lives in enlightened Europe, but the US and Mexico are different countries which don't want to join up while Germany seemed to want to for the most part.

There is a good reason for borders and the immigration process...

Isn't this like the Lieberals talking about accountability?

non sequitur

Actually, security fences are not new and the Berlin Wall can't be compared to them. These walls are about illegal immigration.

The US is planning its 700 mile fence; Saudi Arabia in 2004 put one up between itself and Yemem and in 2006, between itself and Iraq.
India has one along the border with Pakistan in Kashmir. And there's one between India and Bangladesh. And Kuwait and Iraq. And Botswana and Zimbabwe. And Spain and Morocco.

After all, Mexico is essentially playing an economic scam on the US. It is sending its unemployed to the US where they work - but don't pay taxes - but - use the public infrastructure of roads, schools, hospitals, etc.
Then, Mexico doesn't have to develop the economic infrastructure to develop jobs for these people and it benefits because they send enormous amounts of wages home, to support their families - again - a release to Mexico from having to support those families.

Mexico is getting quite the free ride with these illegal immigrants.

It seems that Mr Gorbachev is just using this to take a shot at the US. There is a distinct difference between the proposed fence and the Berlin Wall. This US Border fence is to be used to keep illegals out, while the Berlin Wall was put up to keep the oppressed in. Being an enlightened Eurotrash communist, you would think Gorby would have figured that out.

Like Jimmy Carter, Gorbachev is destined to do everything wrong. It's amazing he doesn't realize that the Berlin Wall kept the controlled herds within, while the Mexican border fence is designed to keep uncontrolled herds outside.

Illegal immigration is a terrible problem in the US, and especially in the states along the Mexican border. I could enumerate a lot of anecdotal horror stories, but I won't take up the bandwidth.

A problem less frequently discussed is that narco-traffickers are now basically in business with the "coyotes". In fact, dope dealers have pretty much taken over the entire border operation.

The other day, it may have been Fox News that filmed the "coyotes" sending a bunch of illegals running for the border. When border patrol agents moved to intercept them, narco-traffickers transferred a large shipment at another location on the border. So in this one instance, the illegals were simply a diversionary move.

At the same time, illegals are more profitable than dope. So it was very predictable that narco-traffickers would have taken over the illegals operation.

Another problem that is less widely known is that currently anyone born in the US automatically becomes a citizen. As a consequence, many illegals get across the border and then have children, which of course then causes the whole extended family of the newborn to be eligible to stay in the US and receive government services.

In fact, there is now a pamphlet that illegals get that tells them how to get on the dole in the US in a period of about 4 hours. So American taxpayers are paying a tremendous price, as ET explains above. It's not just social services, because a huge number of Mexican illegals now make up our prison population. They come here illegally, they commit crimes, they are incarcerated, and then we have to pay for their "penal experience".

I alerted our Texas Senators to one hospital operation on the border that had been built specifically for illegals to be able to walk in the door and instantly go into labor so various government services and subsidies would be available to this hospital.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that conservatives are fighting a very real struggle with this issue. Regrettably, a lot of Republican members of the Chamber of Commerce and wealthy business owners would be very happy to continue to use the cheap labor that illegals bring. (Naturally, this depresses the labor market, and then labor prices are not allowed to rise so Americans would apply for the jobs.)

We are actually making headway on this issue, and the fact of this wall is something that is entirely because of the pressure of American citizens exerting influence on our legislators. If we weren't struggling to correct this problem, nothing would be done about it.

deleted for use of profanity.

OK, that's "would"

Perview is my fiend

OK, that's "would"

Perview is my fiend

It's amazing how quick neocons are to turn on someone who insults the current US government, even if it's the man who ended communism.

Oh, wait, sorry, in your universe that man was Ronald Reagan.

Yo Frankie,

it was Ronnie, Maggie and JP2. Gorby was a helpless bystander

Thank you for being a voice of sanity. Gorby certainly didn't stop the purges, the midnight knocks on the door, or the gulags. He didn't want to end communism, he wanted to change it so it would survive. Thank God he failed like the rest of his commie/socialist buddies.

A quick addendum to my earlier remarks..

A couple of years ago I managed to have a conversation with the lawyer who at that time was the chief legislative counsel for Texas, dealing with the border issue.

When I pointed out to him that there were actually student groups in the southwest US who were arguing that border states should be returned to Mexico, he initially thought that was crazy.

Canadians might be interested to know that his position softened considerably when I explained to the best of my knowledge the situation in French-speaking Quebec.

If the flow of illegals is not successfully dealt with along the Mexican border, eventually the southwest will begin to have some of the problems that are attendant with the consequences of your bi-lingual situation.

It might be propitious to mention that the avenues that American citizens have that allow us to directly put pressure on our Congressmen and Senators is entirely responsible for being able to carry on struggles such as this one.

Often it is American citizens and American citizens alone that make some things happen down here. It seems to me that Harper's idea of having elected Senators would give Canadians more of an opportunity to exercise their will in matters of consequence.

What???

Let me get this straight: The guy who stood in front of a wall and said, "Tear down this wall," and the guy who said, "Do not be afraid," get credit for ending communism -- instead of the guy who instituted economic reforms and introduced a free press to the Soviet Union?

Some of you guys would credit a pig for inventing the printing press if voted Republican -- and blast Gutenberg as a publicity-hungry do-nothing if you found out he was a liberal.

What???

Let me get this straight: The guy who stood in front of a wall and said, "Tear down this wall," and the guy who said, "Do not be afraid," get credit for ending communism -- instead of the guy who instituted economic reforms and introduced a free press to the Soviet Union?

Some of you guys would credit a pig for inventing the printing press if it voted Republican -- and blast Gutenberg as a publicity-hungry do-nothing if you found out he was a liberal.

Gorbachev criticized the U.S. and the current Bush administration for what he said is a lack of support. Comparing current conditions to those before the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, he said, "The political and social situation is difficult and the standard of living is worse for many people.

And whose fault is that? Thank God, America didn't throw money down the Russian rat hole in the 90's, which still has no mechanisms in places place for a civil society, only to have Putin grab private property back to the state - the same fascist Putin that the sniveling Gorbachev expresses admiration for.

So, Gorby, if 11 million plus illegals were crossing the Russian border, what would Russia do? Hypocrite.

Hey, frank, it was Yeltsin that dismantled the communist beast. His reforms, my friend. Read a little history. Gorby, the equivocator, tried to stage a coup against Yeltsin which ended forever his respect with the Russian public.

Frank, neither speech would have destroyed or even dented the USSR. Reagan's administration simply outspent the soviet defense model by virtue of the fact that communism is vastly inferior to capitalism as a long term strategy.

Even the hardliner communists in the old USSR knew that their days were numbered.

Gorbachev read the writing on the wall, pardon the pun. Capitalism was the superior system and the arms race was out of his price range.
And ronnie could not be pushed around.
The recent situation in Iran reminds me of a critical bit of history, obvious and undeniable: "jimmuh" carter in office, hostages stuck; Ronnie sworn in, hostages released.

Speaking as one of a minority group here in Houston, Texas (white anglo) I can vouch for Dallas Greg's comments. I can also tell anyone who cares to listen is that the Berlin Wall and a border wall along the US-Mex border or the Can-US border for that matter are two entirely different things. Where as the Berlin Wall wouldn't let anyone pass, border walls here would not restrict any legal person from visiting or entering the country.

The Berlin Wall came down because the soviet bloc crashed economically mainly because of years of pressure from the west. It certainly wasn't Gorby's idea. Ya also notice that he isn't leading the government now? He didn't last long for a hero did he.

I certainly hope Frank doesn't have any fence around his yard because that restricts those poor undocumented tresspassers from entering his yard or even house.

Deleted for use of profanity.

Frank, Frank, Frank...

Talk about alternate universes...If you're going to get into re-writing the history of the West winning the Cold War, you'll have to do better than mere assertation of your unsubstantiated conclusion.

You'll also need to get some really good fiction script-writers, of a left-wing persuasion. Given the realities of the CBC, the BBC and Hollywood, that shouldn't be too hard. (Start with Michael Moore.)

Some inconvenient facts:

It was Reagan's defense build-up that broke the proverbial Soviet bank.

It was Gorby who wouldn't make a deal at Reykyavik on tactical nukes in Europe. It was Gorby & Co. who did everything possible to resist the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was Gorby & Co. who attempted (and nearly succeeded) in the assassination of Pope John Paul II, when the Pope was actively working with the Polish underground and Solidarity, the Polish labour movement; with Reagan, Thatcher, the Brit SIS and the US CIA to orchestrate the fall of the Communist dictatorship in Poland.

That in turn brought about the fall of the Czech Communist regime, the Communist regimes in the rest of the Warsaw Pact...and the fall of the Soviet Union itself.

That, in the briefest outline, is the chronological and factual history of the decline and fall of the Soviet Union. All of these facts can be readily found, in voluminous detail, by very easy Internet search.

To give credit to Mikhael Gorbachev for the fall of the Soviet Union is rather like giving credit to Emperor Hirohito for the fall of the Japanese Empire, or to Mussollini for the fall of Fascist Italy.

Well said, Dave ...

But you're wasting your breath.

Tragically, there's no known cure for stupidity and our Frankie is suffering from one of the severest forms of the disease:

arrogance plus ignorance

Pity is our only recourse

C'mon everyone. All thinking Conservatives know that it was the brilliant initiatives of Jimmy Carter that brought them to their knees.

Them being the pilots of the helicopters downed in the Iranian hostage rescue mission.

the berlin wall was built by the commies to keep the people, especially the talented ones who are the lifeblood of a society, IN.

the mexican border barrier is to keep the illegal free riding riff raff OUT.

big difference gorby.

"It was Reagan's defense build-up that broke the proverbial Soviet bank."

that would be a rather massive bingo there dave.

star wars did it, just musing about the concept regardless of the feasibility or likelyhood of the near perfect performance, was enough to gag the ruskies on their own tried and true one-upmanship style response.

they had no answer for this one. they couldnt hire spies to steal the design and make a clone because it consisted of hundreds of sub components all over the continent. ever changing and improving.

and no countermeasure either.

and so they crapped their pants and left the game.

watch 'in the face of evil' chronicling Reagan's concerted public life long opposition to communism at every turn.

I lowered the scoring on the spam filter to make things more convenient for you people.

If you don't observe the rules about profanity, I will raise it so high you'll need a lifejacket to post here.

After I kick your IP to the curb, that is.

You were warned Ti-Guy.

Simple solution: Parents of any child born in the US, must be legal residents. Change that law. Make it illegal, in Canada and the US to transfer money to family in another question, in excess of 100.00/month. Stop funding illegals in schools, health care, welfare, food stamps. Get tough. Yes, the liberals, aclu, etc would cry, but think of the funds saved to be used for US citizens for school, health care etc. The US citizen having to pay all expenses to keep the illegals warm and cozy is the same as 3 provinces in Canada paying so Quebec and the maritimes can live high on the hog, while citizens of these 3 provinces have to do without. Family reunification programs have to be stopped. Blow up the tunnels used, for people and dope, send illegals to guitmo. Should take about 6 months for the abusers of the system to get the message. Put those who employee illegals in jail for 5 yrs, no questions asked. Americans would do those jobs. Raising the illegals wages will not solve a problem but create new ones.

Does George Soros pay people like Gorby to act like morons? Why else would they do it?

My feeling is Gorbachev was a product of his times and took advantage of it. Sadly Putin is even better at taking advantage.... sliding downward.

I think Gorbie had something there.
Maybe it was a poor comparison and not too accurate an assessmnet but something to consider.

It struck me that building a WALL between the US and Mexico is more like if the West Germans were to put the Fence up between them and the old East Germany to keep all the crap that was there.... there!

The Mexican problems are the responsibility of Mexico..its people and its governments. They seem to be woefully incapable and virtually unwilling to get their shit together.
So why should America's taxpayers be held liable for the economic and social failings of this country? It's not as if there hasn't been plenty of money sent from the US to the neighbouring country! So where are the results?

If I lived in Texas ( and I think I'd like to! ) I'd be helping to build the biggest damned fence possible.

Mexican illegals are breaking our backs. The financial burden of dual language legal, educational and health care services is bankrupting many communities. You would not believe the volume and efficiency of the new underground railroad facilitating human trafficing into this country.

My in-laws live in a small hick town in Tennessee. There were no hispanics 15 years ago. On my occasional visits, I've noticed a growing hispanic community. About 6 months ago I was reading the local paper and bout fell in the floor. A full 40% of the criminal cases cited involved Latinos. Even in mid-country rural communities, the intense saturation of recent hispanic speaking welfare moochers will curl your toes.

When I was leaving town early the next morning, I stopped to get gas. There were probably 15 Latinos in this small convenience store. As I walked back to my car I noticed a big "white truck", a big U-haul looking thing with no logo, and Latinos were loading ice from the ice bin like there was no tomorrow.

How often do we see news of the Mexican socialists marching on Mexico City? Yet a month or so after this spectacle I get to witness their march on Washington demanding their "rights". Hey, news for you illegals, the Constitution protects legal US citizens, not socialist freeloading smoochers.

BUILD THE WALL HIGH AND STRONG!

Good fences make good neighbours.

Mexican illegals are breaking our backs. The financial burden of dual language legal, educational and health care services is bankrupting many communities. You would not believe the volume and efficiency of the new underground railroad facilitating human trafficing into this country.

Only narcotics are more profitable!

The use of the term "underground railroad" is inappropriate; these people aren't fleeing slavery, they're economic migrants.

Business gets the money gleaned from all the cheap labour and ordinary Americans are stuck picking up the tab for all the social costs connected to that cheap labour.

As good of an orator as Regan was, as much as his policies helped he didn't bring down the wall. As for Gorby, he was just the last guy to have his finger in the dike so to speak. He thought he could let a little water seep out and nothing would happen. He was dead wrong.

In the end the people of the east block countries brought an end to communism. All the politicians and all the retoric in the universe wouldn't have done any good without the inate human need for freedom and liberty.

Regan helped, Gorby helped but as usual the real dirty work was left to the huddled masses, and without brave people like those in Romania who chased down Chouchesque and shot him like the dog he was it never would have happened.

Zip,

You're absolutely correct. Politicians are merely players and portrayers. It's hard working everyday men and women who bring about progressive change.

Jack Nicholson,

'thinking Conservative' is an oxymoron. You can't be a Conservative and posses a brain as well. Free thought is not a characteristic of conservatism.

Immigrants, legal and otherwise sent 5.2 BILLION dollars back home to Mexico and other latin-american countries. So why would any poor country spend money to look after it's people when you can export a bunch to the US and let them support them.

I find it ironic that others are so quick to condem the US for defending it's borders, and that includes those Canadians that stopped bashing Bush only long enough to complain that Canadians are special and shouldn't be treated like the rest of the world at the US border.

Before Canada raises a stink about the border consider that in order to visit Australia, one needs a passport, a return ticket and a visa. In other words, you need prior permission to go and visit. That also mean there is no fleeing refugees that made connecting flights to get there. Canada take note!

Free thought is not a characteristic of conservatism.

Now that's rich in irony from a person that never deviates from the shallow hobbled together memes right out of the lefty's playbook.

Come on, Davis, we are waiting for that someday when you might bring some original factual analysis to a thread rather your usual sniveling shallow swipes.

TC .. I agree with you completely. The US has every right to set it's own standards for border security and for immigration and it is NOBODY's damned business. Put state militias in charge or unhinder the people working the border now. Give them all the support they need. Use technology and most inportantly enforce your own laws.

We will adjust to it eventually.

However, it is hypocritical and counter productive to put road blocks in the way of your nations Single Largest trading partner..whether those roadblocks consists of time consuming border crossing checks or unnecessary redundant levels of documentation. Or broken trade agreements or illegal and punitive tarrifs for that matter.
The business of the USA is BUSINESS and Americans need to understand that business relies on the free movement of goods and services. The pundits and politicos who promote blanket impositions on the business community are in fact selling their fellow citizens a load of crap either for self serving purposes or out of sheer ignorance.

And please don't think that fencing the 49th parallel is anything more than laughable!
You can't even afford to man the border as it is and your cost / benefits for such an endeavour are pure fantasy stuff.

Focus on real issues and being able to define and manage real problems is important. Don't let morons confuse you with big talk and pointless exhibitions of patriotism.

Posted by: Davis Brown at October 19, 2006 10:14 AM

'thinking Conservative' is an oxymoron. You can't be a Conservative and posses a brain as well. Free thought is not a characteristic of conservatism.

Nice drive by smear troll

Cant you remmber back in the 80s when everybody was going gaga for this gorby guy? i mean that leftists rag TIME even named him MAN OF THE DECADE what a bunch of limp wristed goofs

Zip:
You're right about the people doing it, not the politicos.
When the Solidarity movement in Poland started to get too powerful, the Kremlin ordered the Polish army mobilized. They refused. Then they ordered the Soviet divisions to mobilze and move to the Polish border. They didn't show up. (Yes, it was a tad more complicated than that, but that was the gist of it)
The Soviet Union actually collapsed at that point, IMHO.
Power too often comes from the barrel of a gun. When the guns don't cooperate, the power evaporates.

Gorby should,nt talk about our border fence after all it was the former SOVIET UNION that built the BERLIN WALL and tore down peoples homes and drove them off their property then tried to starve them and drive out the alieds until we started the BERLIN AIRLIFT and sent in tanks to crush the HUNAGIAN UPRISING so gorby should keep his piehole shut and remeber it was soviet loud mouth CRUSCHEV who stared the CUBAN MISSLE CRISIS

Don't forget that there was a Polish Pope in place during that era, a figure of great moral authority and global relevance that diminished the Soviet's options with Poland.