This Friday is Toronto’s turn to show support for the troops; let’s do it! CLICK
Meanwhile, your daily Afghanistan reading is up at MediaRight.ca
Today we’ve got a load of news from our Allies, including a report on the incredibly violent action that Aussie special forces faced during their tour. Canada’s new Nyala truck proves itself as perhaps the most survivable truck ever built and Clinton calls for more troops.
In the opinion section a piece by Deroy Murdock says of “water boarding”… DO IT!
For starters, consider this: The opposition to the Bush initiative to detail out coercive methods is disingenuous in this… the current Geneva rules are so vague that determining their application to torture often becomes a matter of cultural choice. For instance, what is “degrading” conduct in the west may just be the normal course of events in Somalia… so who’s to be the judge? One countries torture is another countries routine. Torture is standard in the Middle East… yet the outcry over the Abu Ghraib bum piles was as strident as it gets… the anti-specification folks want things kept vague not for humanitarian reasons, but because they actually get more leeway to torture when things are vague…and their troops are harder to prosecute by foreign nations. The Bush camp want it specified with no leeway; which does make it easier for foreign nations to prosecute.
How far should the western democracies go in extracting information? And, how would these extraction techniques be governed? What do you think?
Add to the mess the fact that terrorists are only accorded the Geneva rights as a courtesy, because they aren’t soldiers by the Geneva definitions, nor do they comply with any of the standards set out in the Geneva conventions.
Anyone notice how Taliban Jack Bin Layton won't mention Afghanistan during question period since the taliban murdered the woman trying to get young girls taught in schools.?
Pretty much confirms his pathetic rants of late were nothing more than trying to score votes from the left-wing idiots who don't appreciate the great sacrifices our forces have made and will make.
As you say the Geneva convention does not apply. Even if it did the enemy do not apply it, so do what ever is needed. I am 65 and ex military and it pisses me off that a bunch of lawyers (government) make these jackass rules and do not support the troops in the line of fire. In fact I am surprised there as not been mass resignations from the US and Brits in Iraq, and yes that is allowed.
Interrigation done properly is much more effective and reliable than torture. I personally know guys that have gone through the military's R2I (resistance to interrigation) Instructors course in which they are both interrigators and interrogated. There is no torture, but they all break sooner or later nonetheless.
The problem is not getting the information out of the terrorists. That can be done well within the Geneva Conventions. The problem is that groups such as amnesty international and every other bleeding heart/blame-the-west weak kneed group of appeasers claim that making a prisoner get less than 8 hours sleep a night is torture.
Someone realy aught to show them the difference.
I wish I could be at the SUPPORT OUR TROOP'S RALLY. All my life I felt indebted to our soldiers. Being a boomer, I have lived the good life, thanks to the freedom they fought for. The Hippies ? Just a bunch of cop-out losers.
The enemy we are fighting today is much, much worse than in WWII. And today we also have the MSM to contend with. It seems the Media's main objective is to put us all on a guilt-trip. Even if it means backing the Talaban and the blowing up of schools with children inside. Pathetic.
Looks like those Nyala troop carriers are doing the job, better than the ill regarded Iltis jeep, whom Gen. Mackenzie regarded as "a piece of sh*t".
Also at MediaRight.ca Gen. Hillier is cracking down on troop communications via blogs, email, webpostings. The old "Loose lips, sink ships" is getting a little modern refurbishing. All communications are now being vetted for approval.
Unintended revelation of operational details will only place their lives in certain jeopardy. Your Al Qaeda Taliban types can read on the internet as well. It would be pretty obvious that posting pictures of oneself is an advertisement of one's location.
First off, I support the troops 100%.
Secondly, this crap about Geneva Convention is exactly what it sounds like: CRAP. Lawyers running around with simplistic idealists spouting theory and making torture claims. These idiots think listening to loud music is torture. Having a woman see them in their underwear is torture. Ask the guys that were dragged in the streets about torture. Ask the vets from Hong Kong about torture. The things they endured over there was not to get information but sadistic pleasure. Any intelligence expert will tell you that physical torture will not get information.
Re Hans, it's about time someone started thinking about OPSEC in the information age.
About a year ago I was reading a Blog from Afghanistan which specifically mentioned some of the leadership by name, and where they came from. I emailed a friend in theater and he got a grip on the chatty Kathy personally. It was a unidirectional conversation to say the least.
changing the subject...the story regarding the armed american coast guard ships on the great lakes/as well as the passport issue are directly related to each other....the damn libs were warned 4 years ago to harmonize our immigration policies, point of entry requirements etc...they balked...now we pay
The Geneva Convention is something that fascists, communists and socialists hold over western based democracies, without abiding by the rules themselves.
Kingstonlad, I also read about the "indignation" expressed by the mayor of GTA. Duh! Did that guy get elected or did he get in by default? Claims more people in toronto die from getting shot in the streets of TO than by terrorists entering the USA via the waterways. The logic fails me. Kind of like my neighbour complaining that I put a deadbolt on my door for security because his toilet has backed up more often than there has been robberies in the area.
The security of the borders has been a priority (for some) for a while now. It is time for the kum-by-ya club to get with the program.
Per FOX news Al Qaeda in Iraq is inviting all types of weapons experts to come and test their goodies on American bases in Iraq.
Apparently, they are seeking experts in nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare. Oh and a Ramadan amnesty for those who rejoin the Al Qaeda fight for the next month. It appears they want to warm up and make a glass factory out of some desert sand.
In answering this query one should start of with there own particular idea of what Torture is.
In my opinion Torture is using certain techniques that involve physical injury or mental break down.
Either of which to me is abhorrent. Should not be administered by a people purporting to be civilized. Its a contradiction of our stated goal of dignity with freedom of choices, for individuals within our Democratic polity .
This does not rule out using means of suffering or rewards by increment for information. Water boarding & its feeling of suffocation is an anatomical reaction to drowning. It causes no lasting pain. Mental or physical. other ways also can do the same without physical or emotional injury.
The use of truth drugs or degradation, is also in my opinion less than torture. Humiliation by breaking down there idyllic mime of themselves as martyrs, or Islamic supermen. Pretty hard when wearing girls panties, to think your G-Ds chosen instrument of vengeance against the infidel! Breaking down peoples inflated vision about there sacredness to kill, is no form of brutality. Its doing them a favor.
As long as its done for intelligence, not for cruelty sake. Nor feeling of vengeance.
Ban all privileges, except for those co-operating. Allow separation from the vilest murders, those willing to assist, from the others.
No more Mr. nice guy. From what I see, the limitations put the guards in more hazard than the inmates. Swift justice should fall on them if guards or others are harmed. The death penalty would control much of that for attacking or maiming a prison official.
Solitary confinement is also useful for periods of time . Again for information on there war of hate, not payback.
Lastly Gitmo should be made into a real military prison. not holding center. If these civilians want to play soldier than let them be treated like our own military gone bad. This means labor & strict convention for infractions.
Privileges must come from good behavior or information. with a grantee of there safety to another facility.
There is a good amount of intelligence one can attain by kindness as well, as resolution.
Both approaches can bear fruit.
To subordinate ourselves to there level, with all our advantages of psychological warfare , including our experience with jails & informers. Would be a loss hard to convalesce from. We can do this in a civilized manner. Without staining our own souls in the process.
Even a witness protection plan for inmates willing to give vital information could be used.
What I do not want to see is real crippling or men broken entirely mentally. This would be obscene for those of us who believe in justice , mercy. With individual accountability.
Humor & Humiliation are probably our two best interrogators.
Let us not lose the principles of this great civilization, in the process of defending it from the very monsters who would use ALL the evil at there hands to destroy us. Leaving personnel liberty raped, till lifeless.
We face an unreservedly ruthless foe, with no concept of mercy for others, or themselves. That does not mean we become them, to defeat the killers. We have superior ways to defeat them. Not the defacement, primitive rage they use, or the terror they try to promulgate.
I hope this gets threw the filter?
'bushisms' part I,
from pyramid posters in leicester UK aka 3w pyramidposter dot com copyright 2005:
"the future will be better tommorow"
"if we dont succeed we run the risk of failure"
"it is clear our nation is reliant on foreign oil. more and more of our imports come from overseas"
"we cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or hold our allies hostile"
"Grecians"
"one of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above that which is expected"
"the california crunch really is the result of not enough power generating plants and then not enough power to power the power of the generating plants"
oyph.
compare that last one with statements by Mr Carter, the former white houser in possession of a doctorate in engineering.....
more later !!!
Bill Clinton Quotes: Some Dumb, Some Lies, and Some just plain Arrogant:
On Taxes: "I can spend your money better than you can."
On Monika: "[I]t depends on how you define "alone" ... there were a lot of times when we were alone, but I never really thought we were." … and …. "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"
"You can't say you love your country and hate your government." … then … "A lot of wonderful people love their country and hate the military."
"The other thing we have to do is to take seriously the role in this problem of...older men who prey on underage women...There are consequences to decisions and...one way or the other, people always wind up being held accountable."
"[There is] no question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the CIA is an impeachable offense."
"No one wants to get this (Lewinsky) matter behind us more than I do, except maybe all the rest of the American people,"
"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say."
"I can tell you that the decisions we made, we made because we thought they were in the interests of the American people,"--Bill Clinton, on being asked why he signed waivers, against the Pentagon's protest, to sell Loral missile guidance systems technology to Communist China, enabling China for the first time to launch nuclear weapons.
"She is here with us today," the president declared, speaking of Halvorsen. "I'd like to ask her to stand." … Gail Halvorsen then stood up - Mr. Gail Halvorsen, a 77-year old grandfather…. "Thank you, Sir, " said Clinton.
"I'm just trying to suppress my natural impulses and get back to work."
"There are a lot of very brilliant people who believe that the nation-state is fast becoming a relic of the past,"
"I was thinking of you last night, Helmut, because I watched the sumo wrestling on television." Clinton to Helmut Kohl
“They've been exposed as the trash they are" Clinton, lying once again about Gennifer Flowers.
"And the deficit has come down for four years in a row for the first time since before the Civl War.”
"The last time I checked, the Constitution said, 'of the people, by the people and for the people.' That's what the Declaration of Independence says."
"I am the only President in who knew something about agriculture when I got there."
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles"
"It has not worked. No one can say it has worked, so I decided we're either going to do what we said we're going to do with the U.N., or we're going to do something else."
Clinton pledged, just prior to being elected to run, "the most ethical administration in the history of the Republic."
During the medicare debate and within days Clinton said: "I will tell you this: I will not raise taxes on the middle-class to pay for these programs." … "It might surprise you to know I think I raised them too much, too" … "I take full responsibility...for what we did. It was the right thing to do." …"I have no intention of raising taxes"
"I did not have sexual realtions with that woman, Miss Lewinsky!" … "Indeed I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong"
"Politics gives guys so much power that they tend to behave badly around women. And I hope I never get into that."
"If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people he should resign."
"I misled people"
"I issued a number of denials to people I thought needed to hear them"
"I am trying to be honest with you and it hurts me. Now..."
"It depends on how you define alone…"
"Last year, the vice president launched a new effort to help make communities more liberal."
“I'm someone who had a deep emotional attachment to 'Starsky and Hutch.'"
Just wondering, where in the Geneva convention does it allow beheadings as a means of torture.
It would not bother me one bit to know that the military forces that are doing the nasty and dangerous job hunting down these Islamo Fascist Terrorists are willing to do whatever is necessary or expedient to get the results that we need.
Thes are not upright soldiers of a nation/state who has agreed to conventions and rules of war!
I absolutely and unequivocally support the use af ANY form of force or coersion when dealing with these thugs.
This does not in any way debase our nation...it is the appropriate response to barbarism.
The longest undefended border in the world went by the boards in 2003. ...-
LIBERALS SANCTIONED GUNFIRE ON GREAT LAKES IN 2003
The U.S. Coast Guard's plans to arm boats on the Great Lakes with machine-guns — a measure that has drawn fire from Canadian residents — were sanctioned by Ottawa three years ago, officials from both countries confirmed yesterday.
national newswatch
Go, guys, go! I wish I could be there.
I'm just about to get ready for work. Red's in my wardrobe today.
I'll be with everyone in spirit! I hope you have a massive show of support for our brave men and women fighting in Af'stan, and all those behind the scenes who support them.
According to the Geneva conventions, enemy combatants have the right to a bullet. That is all. Wonder how the left would feel about execution on the battlefield instead of taking them prisoners in the first place.
You notice the Left never addresses the issue of how we are going to WIN the war. Odd, isn't it?