Islamic nutbar appointed as British School inspector
Mr Khan, now headmaster of an Islamic school, launched into his tirade during a concert rehearsal at Washwood Heath Secondary School in Birmingham in 1996 after the choir including around 40 Muslim youngsters, had sung a number of popular Christmas songs, including carols.Sounds like the perfect guy to make sure the schools are doing their job.He leapt from his seat, yelling: "Who is your God? Why are you saying Jesus and Jesus Christ? God is not your God - it is Allah."
And one has to wonder how Mr. Khan will deal with a situation like this
Parents staged an angry protest after their young daughters were forced to strip to their underwear in front of boys at school.One shudders at just what the idiotic British nanny state will turn in to as it becomes more and more Islamified.The girls, aged ten and 11, were left in tears after being ordered to change for PE in a mixed classroom under a school policy blamed on health and safety regulations.
Are there any Anglo Saxons left on that Island. Considering their history this has got to have a lot of folks turning over in their graves.
After all didn't a little document called the Magna Carta originate there. And were the English not batteling the Moors then. Not to mention a thousand year Monarchy with some ot the greatest leaders in history. Not to mention Prime Ministers Churchill comes to mind.
All I ever see is a Empire sinking into oblivion.
10 year old girls and boys should not be changing down to their underwear in front of each other.
It has nothing to do with Islam....
As for the Christmas carols, well, Mr. Khan....that's tough....you're not in the middle east anymore where Islam reigns. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Working on an article honouring local men who died while serving in Bomber Command. They loved that damn little island and thought it and all it meant to democracy were worth dying for. I'm not sure which is the sickest - Mr. Khan and his ilk or the good English people who do nothing.
The British nanny system is going to destroy them, if the Islamic extremists don't first. Personally I think it will be a combination of both. And Prince of Wales cum King will happily reign over his new state as protector of faiths. God help us all.
The difference between the USA and France/England is that the USA is in a permanent state of revolution.
Europe never carried on the fight to eliminate their class system. Maybe that’s why they think their societal war of the classes needs to continue, precisely because there is still a smug political chattering class running things.
Whereas in the USA, Tom Wolfe says it best “ it’s hard for a plumber to get worked up about the class struggle when he’s on his third honeymoon on a Disney cruise”.
Even the café intellectuals in Paris “get it” half right about America…
tinyurl.com/h3uef
I think they know their goose is cooked; they’re just too lazy to do anything about it.
Let’s just keep Canadians and particularly socialist Quebec aware of the collapse into dhimmi-land of Europe. Then maybe we’ll still have a chance to avoid it.
take a look at the blair / bush thing in the same issue of the electronic newspaper.
'with friends like that' syndrome again; same as the softwood lumber thing that got all yer knickers in a bind.......
kept in the dark by the bushists. 'with friends like that'......
and yet you right wingers *still* thing dubya is so great. bbbRRRRRRR!!!!!
Wow. Dem Brits is dummber dan I thoted!
I'm not sure of the point of this post. The singing of carols (1996) and the angry reaction of a Muslim - is his problem, and I hope that the schools and the UK will not ban carol-singing at Xmas!
As for the children changing - what's that got to do wit Islam? Children of that age should not be changing in front of each other - and it has nothing to do with religion.
Nomdenet said . . .
I think they know their goose is cooked; they’re just too lazy to do anything about it.
Let’s just keep Canadians and particularly socialist Quebec aware of the collapse into dhimmi-land of Europe. Then maybe we’ll still have a chance to avoid it.
nomdenet at September 30, 2006 09:49 PM
Brad in Waterloo said . . .
Wow. Dem Brits is dummber dan I thoted!
======== ** ========
Dream on friends..
What makes you think the masses in Eastern Canada have any awareness of how fast the Dhimmi tide is rising?
The MSM delivers a daily machine-gun-fire mix of leaderless Liberal adventures, Insurgency blasts, NDP pullout moans, sheehan and Pam Anderson and gripes against Harper.
Without the logical connecting of at least some of the dots, [like news in the sixties], most Canadians are living in a dream world with harsh surprises to come.
We bloggers are an informed minority and even so, we are not at full alert yet by any means.
I admit this looks bad. Please, where is that website where millions of moderate Muslims are denouncing terrorism?
Do we need a Canadian *Pearl Harbour* in order to snap out of it? = TG
It needs to said: Blair -- he of the very finest speeches about islamofascism (I'm going back to this word from islamism) completely and totally dropped the ball at home.
To me, this puts him in the same boat as Bill Clinton: an actor of academy award stature. A great dramatist and posture monger on the world stage.
Blair has been a total disaster. This will eventually be seen and acknowledged world-wide (tho not in the umma!). He is a tragic character of truly Shakespearean proportion (remember him: dead white male writer of plays a long time ago).
I'm not sure of the point of this post.
Okay, ET, I'll try to clarify it. It deals with two issues seemingly unrelated at the moment, but merging in ways that will be unpredictable in the future.
1) A nanny state that is so out of control it makes boys and girls change together with adults supervising (ogling?) supposedly for health and safety reasons. I found boys and girls changing in separate rooms without adults worked well enough that no further regulation was required when I was in school, but evidently this is no longer the case in Britain.
2) Unassimilated Islamic radicals not just existing on the fringes of British society, but taking up senior positions of responsibility within that out-of-control nanny state. Then ponder what it will be like when they start to exert their influence.
It's ironic that broad-minded westerners who travel to foreign countries typically regale their friends with stories -- and slides -- about the delightful traditions they encountered on their journeys, yet typically are the first to support the notion that we remove those aspects to our own traditions in order not to offend those who come from other cultures.
"Ironic", admittedly, might not be quite strong enough a word; some descriptor of cultural pathology might be more appropriate. Under the guise of enlightenment and high moral achievement these "enlightened" ones in effect happily vacuum away the manifestations of our great European enlightenment culture in order to please the sorts of people who demonstrably demand more suction as this situation develops.
"Hypocrisy" might be a better word, or, in a phrase, "suicidal hypocrisy". Certainly one can imagine what the reactions of the progs and the Volvo Socialists would be if they went to a foreign land, only to find the locals apologetically curtailing their traditions and holiday expressions in the interest of making the latecomers feel more comfortable: "Oh, gosh, no, your cultural traditions are beautiful, and in fact we can learn a great deal from them."
Perhaps the next "Peanuts" Christmas special will show prog-state enforcers trundling off Charlie Brown and Linus into an unmarked van and taking them away, so as not to offend the Israr Khan's of the world. Linus would keep talking, softly, but I'm not so sure about the rest of us.
What in G*d's name are they thinking there?
Next thing they'll have to convert to Muslim and the girls made to wear burqas.
As for the undressing issue, the headmistress probably relented because she was afraid for her own safety. She would have cause concern if it involved my daughter.
Also, the article doesn't mention the gender of the teachers supervising.
There are a couple of comments here about Muslims who have not assimilated. I gather then, that religious freedom to Canadian Conservatives means the freedom to chose to be either Catholic or Protestant or Jewish, but not to be a Muslim. And presumably being a Sihk is off the list too, given the old Reform rageaholic rant about turbans in the RCMP.
You can see the bias against Muslims here as well in what is not said. Nothing is said about the case of Maher Arar, because as fas as Kate and her followers are concerned neither he nor any other Muslim has got any business complaining about anything. They got what they deserved.
Hey, bud, it's understandable that a Belgian, or a Dane, or a German, or an Italian living in Korea might not assimilate readily. What's not understandable is that they would stand up in a public assembly in that country and yell that an expression of Korean culture is an outrage.
If Koreans took umbrage at such a display, it's entirely doubtful you would refer to "bias" against Danes, or Italians, etc.
"Freedom to choose" doesn't mean freedom to demand the predominance of one's own originating culture when one moves to another country. If you are unable to such demand in many Muslim's attitudes -- whether it be to the Pope's speech, or to Christmas plays -- then you are either willfully blind, or just reflexively playing the "racism" card.
From some of the comments made on this post I dont think some of the communtators can read.ie; the conection between the points.Maybe they should get someone to read it for them.
it's the daily mail. it needs fact checking.
Jaeger writes:
"An nanny state that is so out of control it makes boys and girls change together with adults supervising (ogling?) supposedly for health and safety reasons."
That's rubbish.
The article says:
"Headmistress Suzanne Foster has now relented following a petition from 50 parents."
"The Department for Education said: "It is up to the head to decide what happens when children are changing for PE. It is a matter of personal discretion."
This was a local decision and not a nanny state "making" this happen. Try reading the whole article.
I'm more concerned with this link on the same Daily Mail webpage under Headlines.
"Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'"
tinyurl.com/p7xuh
Bud Campbell,
I was about to welcome you, but you gave me pause by putting words in my mouth ** saying Arar got what he deserved**.
Arar*s ordeal may well have been a grieveous mistake on the part of the RCMP and as such he deserves the apology and compensation due to any Canadian.
You can be a Moslim, Communist or Sihk in Canada as you wish.
Non assimilated means having urges to blow up buildings, institutions and Canadians.
I hope you ARE assimilated and have none of those exciting actions in mind.
You have the benefit of my doubts. I presume you may be a frustrated Liberal and I can understand that.
BTW, searching the net for a site where moderate non-violent Moslims meet and denounce violence. Found one or two so far. . . any suggestions? = TG
As an immigrant from a very different culture - my son is now , I am proud to say - a Canadian.
If these people want to import their own culture into Canada , they should do so with respect to a place that has freedom of speech , religion and thought - if they don't like Western culture - they should go home to the thirld world ratholes they (and I) came from and not come back.
jyisnpoes:
Agreed and welcome.
If Immigrants to Canada,or any other Western Democracy, wish to continue to live as they did in oft times totalitarian regimes, they have no intention of embracing or respecting our culture which allows all basic freedoms.
Our multicultural policies are the problem. They are what encourages this dangerous disconnect.
We can't have a strong united Country with thousands of immigrants from lands with which we have no history, living in Ghettos,taking all the best of our world and giving nothing, not even friendship.
We see far too many examples of it across the Country. It's frightening. It has to stop.
Assimilation does not mean giving up one's religion or culture, it means fitting in with the social fabric of the Country, enriching the lives of all.
Yes but ... Assimilate to what? We need to make that clear, particularly in our education system.
Europe has been so self-loathing that they don't even try to defend their history. Partially for good reason, some of their history is fascist or Vichy and can't be defended. But not all of it. The Magna Carta and all the democratic progress over centuries needs a reawakening in Europe.
Meanwhile, Canada needs to cut the umbilical cord from Europe, which is turning into Eurabia.
The reason "homegrown" terrorists are taking hold is because young males in particular can't find an identity for themselves and are susceptible to the brainwashing of the Islamic fascists. We need to encourage tolerance for diversity but dump multiculturalism and its favourite weapon - political correctness - that discourages open dialogue about what ails us.
jaeger - thank you for your explanation. I see what you were attempting to explain, but I think that the analysis has more reality in your mind than within the evidence.
As has been pointed out, these were local decisions and not 'nanny state decisions'.
I don't think that one can move from an individual action and make it into a universal. Are all decisions about education defined by one authoritarian office or are they local?
Can one attempt to link two local individual actions as somehow indicative of some universal (a nanny state)?
nomdenet:
Exactly! We need to immediately if not sooner dump multiculturalism.It's taking us down a path of ruin as a Nation.
Our Education system, at all levels, is so awash in Political Correctness the message screams loud and clear we stand for nothing.
No doubt it's too much to expect this minority Government to have the guts to change the status quo but we should start demanding it and getting answers. It's going to take YEARS.
Thanks to Pierre Trudeau for this destructive Policy.It must be noted, as was his plan, Quebec remains a Monolithic society.
What a bunch of hypocrites you are.A few months ago,the members of the loony right were outraged that a group of american children were asked to participate in a class activity that taught them what Ramadan was all about.In another instance Dr Laura spearheaded a protest against schoolchildren being taken to mosques on visits.But that was alright with you jokers was'nt it?
Ajsuhail,
Not easy to reply to your wild shot out of the blue.
You seem to think there is unified plot from us of various conservative flavours.
Heck, we, like all humans, fight among ourselves. There is no general hatred towards you and your opinions unless you prefer gunpowder over verbal and written debate.
It would be interesting to learn why you have that unexplained chip on your shoulder, why you take the actions of individuals and smear all conservatives with blame. = TG
ajsuhail : The "rage" about Ramadan in the classroom is probably due to the complete and total suppression of all Christian symbols and celebration in those very classrooms. For the record I'm an antheist but, like Oriana Fallaci, a Christian atheist. Recall those Christmas concerts with all things Christian expunged and replaced by treacle like John Lennon's "Imagine".
Well, you can sling around "hypocrisy" as much as you like, but the rage you refer to is actually against lib-lefy hypocrisy -- the breathless celebration of "the other" and the simlultaneous suppression of all our own traditions.
You can be a Moslim, Communist or Sihk in Canada as you wish.
Non assimilated means having urges to blow up buildings, institutions and Canadians.
I hope you ARE assimilated and have none of those exciting actions in mind.
You have the benefit of my doubts. I presume you may be a frustrated Liberal and I can understand that.
Posted by: TG at October 1, 2006
I assume you meant Muslim, not Moslim? I must say, that paragraph in which you do allow for religious diversity is awfully tolerant of you. Tell me, ... do you permit atheism, ...if you do Ted Byfield will be angry, you know.
Non-assimilated does not mean what you say it means. I am as assimilated German Canadian, in taht I don't speak the language and neither did my parents, you have to go back to my grandparents generation. I still enjoy sausage meets and beer, though, so I am not 100% assimilated.
I am a New Democrat, and recently attended the Convention in Quebec City.
Speaking of nanny states, baby formula is the diet choice of Islamic terrorists...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0629/p01s01-usju.html
You can be a Moslim, Communist or Sihk in Canada as you wish.
Non assimilated means having urges to blow up buildings, institutions and Canadians.
I hope you ARE assimilated and have none of those exciting actions in mind.
You have the benefit of my doubts. I presume you may be a frustrated Liberal and I can understand that.
Posted by: TG at October 1, 2006
I assume you meant Muslim, not Moslim? I must say, that paragraph in which you do allow for religious diversity is awfully tolerant of you. Tell me, ... do you permit atheism, ...if you do Ted Byfield will be angry, you know.
Non-assimilated does not mean what you say it means. I am an assimilated German Canadian, in that I don't speak the language and neither did my parents, you have to go back to my grandparent's generation. I still enjoy sausage meats and beer, though, so I am not 100% assimilated.
I am a New Democrat, and recently attended the Convention in Quebec City.
communtators can read.ie; the conection between the points
and some cant write. ie that'd be 'commEntators' and 'conNection'
so all you perfectionist right wingers who stamp your feet at my lousy typing skills, feel free to comemnt on the speling of your colegue. LOL !!!
Lets demand a new immigration law:
1, Before muslims are allowed to live in Canada one must promise to uphold all our founding traditions and culture.
2. You must live in Canada for 10 years before being granted citizenship.
3. During that 10 years you must have been a taxpayer, given up all your original country's dress, politics, hatred, and passport and citizenship. You will not be allowed to vote or run for any office for 5 years after receiving citizenship.
4. On Heritage Day, that is the only day you can publicly display any of your dress, food, culture etc.
5. Upon entering Canada, to accept these conditions, you must promise to publicly have protest marches, waving the Canadian Maple Leaf and burn any Islamic sympol. You will not be allowed to send any money out of our Country to anywhere, or anyone in an Islamic country.
6. You must repeat this mantra 5 times a day, Trudeau was an Idiot for bringing in multiculturism. You may stand while doing this.
7. You will not ask for special treatment if you break our laws, prayer mats, korans, prayer beads, unless you can prove that non muslim lawbreakers or prisoners in islamic countries are allowed crusifixes, rosarys, prayer books, bibles,
and those of the Jewish faith are given all symbols of their religion.
8 You must also get 25 canadians of various faiths, trades, education etc to vouch for you. No muslims allowed to vouch for you.
It is time for canadians to take back our country, The Rallys for our Troops is a start.
I apologize to all the innocent muslims in Canada, but your refusal to mount any outrage at the terrorists acts, riots, carbques etc. are turning the silent majority of canadians against you. We will not bomb you, we will ignore you and your businesses. It is your fault.
Theres nothing like putting the fox in charge of the hen house is there? now all english girls will be forced to wear burkas and boys will have to grow their beards or carry those cerimonial daggers they might as well fly the cresent and star in place of the union jack and put a turban on big ben
How about if we take all religion out of schools including Christianity and Islam? There is no place for any sort of religion in the school system, this way we can avoid offending everybody. Sing Christmas carols on your own time. You are in school to learn reading, writing and rithmetic, not Christianity or any other religion.
And Mary, you may have forgotten this but most of us are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants. I can see no benefit to discriminating against immigrants or anybody else for that matter. We are supposed to be an enlightened and inclusive society and telling people how to dress or worship is simply unacceptable and xenophobic. If you get to take prayer mats away from Muslims than why shouldn't we get to take Christian bibles away from you?
Texas: Please tell me how many german, hungarian, US, Italian, Danish or other nationalities have come to canada and insisted we follow their rules and cultures to the detriment of our own. And how many of the above have gone out and killed, burned and chopped off heads because they were insulted (supposedly) How many of them have demanded special treatment, or been given special treatment by the government when they come here. How many of them have said, no Christmas Carols, Christmas Concerts, no Merry Christmas and forced cdns to forbid such things. Or objected to so called bad cartoons. By comparing our immigrant population to muslims is insulting.
Budd Campbell,
The spelling of Muslim as Moslim is an inner circle sort of thing.
I*ll let you in on it. The Muslim spelling has to do with the loss of fabric in the group backbone of moderate Moslims.
When that backbone returns and moderate Moslims regain our collective respect, the spelling will revert to the usual Muslim.
I love garlic sausage and beer so I guess that, with my Scot heritage, my designation would be quasi-assimilated.
Know of any good moderate Moslim sites?
Omar of IraqTheModel seems like a pretty fair guy. Any others? = TG
Mary, and the white paper.
The eight laws of Mary; proposed legislation.
Hail Mary. . . Seconded! = TG
Sorry Texas, that should be Tanya. That's what happens when you try to read without glasses a day or so after catarac surgery. Mea Culpa.
Got to find a pair of magnifying glasses until I can get new lenses in a few weeks.
Tanya: There is just no comparison between the Immigrants who built this Country and those with whom we have no history who have been allowed entry in the past two plus decades.
Whoever is at fault, we have been robbed of many of our basic tenets by the political correctoids with their Socialist agendas, we no longer stand for much that this country was built on. We need to start looking at our education system which is teeming with it.
We can blame ourselves for people we elect to power at all levels and most especially Trudeau who will be touted in time as the PM who did the most damage to Canada.
Let's hope the turnaround is underway.
With more people like Mary it will happen.
Thanks Mary.
The Islamic Republic of Britain - wins again.
The Muslim spelling has to do with the loss of fabric in the group backbone of moderate Moslims
Slightly OT: ridiculous that one even speaks of "moderate Muslims"/Moslims/Mohammedans/Islamics/whatever. What does "moderate" really mean in this context? As far as I can tell, it means that they support the goals of Osama and co., but hope to achieve them through demographic change rather than outright violence. I mean, would one ever give credence to talk of "moderate Nazis"? Come on.
MARY, I HOPE YOUR EYESIGHT GETS BETTER ;-)
BTW, you could try and increase the font size on your web browser for a while to make it easier to read. Take care, eh.
Mary
I cant recall any actual bombings but I can remember when the angel was removed from the foyer of a well known school before Christmas, because IT WAS WHITE. and around this time a statemeant was made, and this is close if not literaly right, "It's the white men what is denegrating the blacks", and this was from a member of the school board.
Tanya: How can you take Christianity out of the school system. Have you ever heard of the Tem Commandments: Read them and then read the Criminal Code and you will discover that many of our laws are based on these 10 rules. Even so called atheists follow them, but that will surprise them. Even the media gets upset when someone breaks on of these rule, or are you unaware of the flak over Belinds breaking one of them. We have had over 20 years of people trying to take Christian Values out of our schools, by saying there is no right or wrong, and kids will learn this as they grow. They have tried to take out our right to read certain authors, and forced kids to read others, to see the up side of SSM. You would be surprised at how many students still say a daily prayer, (not out loud) or sports team that have a spiritual moment. The Christian and Jewish Faiths will prevail in Canada. The big difference is that even we are starting to ignore one of our teachings, as we refuse to continue to turn the other cheek. I am offended by many of the actions of the muslims and I demand they apologize to me. When we canadians see what is happening in Europe and Britain, we will wake up and say NO, NOT HERE. I think much of Europe still suffers from in inferiority complex because they had to depend on Canada and the US to win their war and rebuild their economy.
Tanya: How can you take Christianity out of the school system. Have you ever heard of the Tem Commandments: Read them and then read the Criminal Code and you will discover that many of our laws are based on these 10 rules. Even so called atheists follow them, but that will surprise them. Even the media gets upset when someone breaks on of these rule, or are you unaware of the flak over Belinds breaking one of them. We have had over 20 years of people trying to take Christian Values out of our schools, by saying there is no right or wrong, and kids will learn this as they grow. They have tried to take out our right to read certain authors, and forced kids to read others, to see the up side of SSM. You would be surprised at how many students still say a daily prayer, (not out loud) or sports team that have a spiritual moment. The Christian and Jewish Faiths will prevail in Canada. The big difference is that even we are starting to ignore one of our teachings, as we refuse to continue to turn the other cheek. I am offended by many of the actions of the muslims and I demand they apologize to me. When we canadians see what is happening in Europe and Britain, we will wake up and say NO, NOT HERE. I think much of Europe still suffers from in inferiority complex because they had to depend on Canada and the US to win their war and rebuild their economy.
History = Culture = Destiny.
Muslims (Moslems BTW), have played no part in the development of Canada. If they wish to do so, it cannot be in an arrogant attempt to change our culture to one that is acceptable to Islam.
It is obvious for anybody willing to look, that Muslims do not assimulate as well as non-Muslims into our way of life. They think of themselves as being superior, based on their understanding of their God and religion. This is intolerant. And the proof of that intolerance is shown daily in every majority Moslem country - as well as in many countries that have been kind enough to allow them to immigrate.
People like Budd, being a socialist as he stated, would reject the truism at the top of this post - given the fact that socialism has not factored into Canada's history or culture either. They, as well as their currently useful pals, the Muslims, would attempt to change Canada's destiny, while having had nothing to do with the development and building of our country.
Strange bedfellows indeed.
History = Culture = Destiny.
Muslims (Moslems BTW), have played no part in the development of Canada. If they wish to do so, it cannot be in an arrogant attempt to change our culture to one that is acceptable to Islam.
It is obvious for anybody willing to look, that Muslims do not assimulate as well as non-Muslims into our way of life. They think of themselves as being superior, based on their understanding of their God and religion. This is intolerant. And the proof of that intolerance is shown daily in every majority Moslem country - as well as in many countries that have been kind enough to allow them to immigrate.
Posted by: Irwin Daisy at October 2, 2006
Undoubtedly there are some Muslims who are arrogant, but it's hard to imagine how anyone could be more arrogant that Irwin Daisy.
The silly and quite meaningless little equation at the top, the even more idiotic and equally meaningless assertion that Muslims have not participated in building Canada, and the prize taker, the claim that it's Muslims rather than xenophobes like Daisy who feel superior to others, are all consistent with someone who's got a truly enormous ego.
TANYA: 4.16 p.m. I thought only I was having problems reading, but your post shows not only can you not read, but are unable to understand.
I did not say, in my rules, that we would take away prayer mats etc, I said YOU WILL NOT GET THEM UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE BIBLES ETC ARE GIVEN TO NON MUSLIMS IN PRISON IN MUSLIM STATES. When the muslims in Ont tried to impose sharia law, they were attempting to tell us how to live, dress and pray. As you said, they have no right to do this.
You also said, Why can't WE take away your christian bible. Are you implying that you are a muslim and are feeling guilty for supporting the terrorists.
Budd,
Ranting about ego only shows your personal feelings have been hurt.
Ego only matters when there is too much of it in a short man like Napolian, or . . . dare I say it?
Forget about ego. What do you think of this?
As we speak, into the Gaza from Egypt is only part of a much bigger mess to come.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52231
Damn! = TG
"The silly and quite meaningless little equation at the top..."
Oddly, most historians don't think so. But then, I did say you wouldn't be intelligent enough to comprehend it. Thanks for the proof.
It must be getting really tedious to be holding your hands over your ears while attempting to drown out facts and reason with unintelligible infant noise, isn't it Budd?
But then I guess any member of the NDP has to be intellectually stunted to begin with. Thank God you and your ilk represent a shrinking few relegated to the bottom of the pond.