The following is a rough transcript via The Corner, of a speech given earlier today by Rick Santorum on the floor of the US Senate. (I've edited it somewhat for readability purposes, and will update it later should an official transcript become available.)
I stand here in just — in just sadness.The president of the united states gives an address about the condition of our country five years after the events of 9/11, gives an address and lays out the scope of the problem that we are confronting. The people all across this world who subscribe to a radical, perverted form of islam want to destroy everything that we believe in; that is the enemy that we are confronting. We are in an active war with our military against them in afghanistan and iraq. That's the reality. The minority leader just referred to it as sectarian violence. Sectarian? Hmm... What is that word? Religious violence, radical skhraeupl — islam violence. Some shoe — some sunni, some shia, but both. That is the reality of who the enemy is today. The very people that planned the attacks are the people who are in iraq — al qaeda — in iraq causing that sectarian violence. Should we ignore that i would ask the senator from nevada? Should we just ignore that? That doesn't exist? Just pretend that they're not there, not talk about that last night, pretend that al qaeda is not in iraq, this is not part of the mission that we are trying to accomplish?
It's sad. We're at war against an enemy that i happen to believe is the most dangerous enemy ever to confront this country. We play petty politics constantly here on the floor of the senate, even after a solemn day of remembrance for the valiant people who died on september 11. This is chilling. We just can't get past the politics around here, just can't get past the partisan advantage around here, can't face the reality that we have a dangerous enemy out there, an enemy that wants to destroy everything we hold dear, an enemy that is very clear about what they want to accomplish.
How clear? They say it. Not to mike wallace on "60 minutes," i might add. No. No, when you're spinning in english here in america, you put on the nice face. You put on the happy face that we want peace and we want to live together in brotherhood and all this wonderful stuff. That's a lie, because when they go back and speak in arabic and farsi, they give a very different story. And it's a consistent story, i might add. It is the destruction of the state of israel and it is the submission of the infidels to what they believe in.
That's the enemy we confront. It's real. We can play politics about it and say it's not real. We can say it's a trumped-up war. They are at war with us. We may not want to be at war with them, but they are at war with us not just in afghanistan and iraq, not just in southern lebanon, not just in great britain, but here. They want to defeat us. Their intent is to defeat us. And they are motivating people in the middle east and around the world to join the ranks and attack us.
One of the things i learned from my days in little league and in everything else i've ever engaged in. One sure-fire way to lose anything that you're engaged in with an opponent is not to take your opponent seriously, is not to look at what they really are about, look at their capability and not take them seriously. I remember early in this war many were calling the terrorists cowards, as if these people were weak and that they had no real resolve. These people are not weak. They are misguided, horribly misguided. But they are not weak. They are a dangerous enemy. They are a dangerous enemy that has an ideology that is phoet — that is motivating people. And they have a tactic that is uniquely effective against us. As osama bin laden says, "we will defeat you because you love life. We love death."
And we do love life in this country because we have a lot to live for. We have great freedom. We have great material wealth. We have a wonderful culture. They, on the other hand, for the most part have none of those. They love death because they see death is better than life, and they're willing to die. In fact, they want to die. We've never fought an enemy like this. We've never fought an enemy that wanted to die as part of the victory for them. We always fought enemies who saw death as a tragic consequence of war and that their objective was an earth lick kingdom. Not this — an earthly kingdom. Not this enemy. This enemy, death is the part of the war as a desire for entering into this battle, and that their kingdom is not one that they want to build here but one that they want to achieve after death.
This is an enemy that wants a nuclear weapon in iran not because they want to stave off Because they want to use it to attacks. No. pursue their messianiac vision of the return of the hidden imam. They give speeches across the state of pennsylvania and lay out for the people in my state this vision of president mahmoud ahmadinejad, the vision of the shia 12th or hidden imam who is to return at the end of time. That's what the shia believe. But president ahmadinejad and the rulers of iran believe different than most shias. Thank god different from most shias. They believe it is their obligation to bring about the end of time by the destruction of the state of israel and by world chaos in which islam is suppressing the infidels. And only at that time will this hidden imam return and the actualization of the religion come to pass. This is a serious enemy. This is an enemy with resources. This is an enemy with growing technology, and this is an enemy with fervent disciples who are willing to go around and kill themselves in pursuit of this objective.
This is not something to be playing politics with. This is not something to ignore and pass off as sectarian violence that we brought about because we happen to be there. These people have been at war with us for 20 years, and we've chosen to ignore them. And we paid a very high price.
And so what's our lesson? If you listen to the democratic leader, our lesson is let's continue to ignore them. Let's continue to play politics. Let's put domestic politics ahead of the security of this country. That's the message. This isn't real. This is trumped up. If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone. Oh really? Do you really believe that? That if we were to leave these people alone, that somehow or another we'd be safe here? We just garrison america, make all public buildings like we have here at the capitol. Put jersey barriers around everything. Have police on every corner. Who will protect ourselves from these people? Is that the america we want to live in? Not me. Not me. We are at war, the most serious war this country has ever faced against an opponent like none we have ever faced.
And yet, we play politics. We ignore the reality. We pretend they're just not there, at least until november. At least until we can get control. And then maybe we'll come to our senses and recognize the grave threat that confronts our country.
No, the president did not give a political speech last night. He spoke the reality of the conflict that is before us. It is not popular to do so. I know. It is not popular to stand up and support a conflict that is difficult — difficult — to deal with every day. But understand that's exactly what they have in mind. Did you ever wonder why they don't kill 3,000 people in one day? I mean, they have the capability of doing so. You just send out, instead of one every day or two every day, you send out 200 in one day. Why not? Why don't they just have one mass, huge offensive? Because that's not what they are all about. That's not terror as a tactic. Terror as a tactic is every single day cause death. It doesn't matter who, but just cause death. So why? To defeat the military? No. Their objective isn't to defeat the military or drive back the lines of our troops or to control more area. No. Those deaths are not aimed at They are aimed at us. our military.
Every day they want to make it harder for you and you and you to open the paper, to turn on the television, to see more death. It's just a steady drum isbeat of the psychological war of terror being inflicted on the american public. They will keep up the drumbeat every single day, not in big conflagrations. Every day to make it painful, to make it hard. They want one thing out of us. They know our military — and i'm going to submit for the record a serviceman who wrote me who provided his experience in iraq of success, i might add. Our military knows that they must win this war and they are succeeding at some level.
They're not attacking our military. They're attacking us psychologically every single day unless until finally they get us to say one word — enough "enough." Enough. We've had enough. We can't take this anymore. It's just too hard. They believe we will say "enough "enough." Because they believe we are weak weak. They believe that we in the modern world just don't have the stomach to fight and die for what we believe in anymore. We like our things too much. And so we will just leave them alone until they get stronger and stronger, in a position to do more and more damage to our children and grandchildren.
The president is right. This is our hour. We can play politics with the hour, we can seek political advantage and to win the next election with this hour. We can confront the reality of this hour and do something about it. On my watch, even though i'm ing what many consider to be face a difficult time back in pennsylvania — on my watch, i'm going to confront the reality of the threat to me, to this country and to our children and grandchildren. It is just too important to walk away and play politics to get re reelected. It is too important to the future of this country to minimize the threat that we are engaged in and play politics with it. It may win and lose elections. Matters not to me. Matters not to me. What matters is, defending our country when it needs to be defended. Not putting personal politics above what's the best interests of the national security of this country.
I believe the president, given all the mistakes that this administration has made in the conduct of this war — and they certainly are numerous — the president has it right. This is the greatest threat for our generation, and i pray we have the courage to confront it.
Couldn't have summed it up better ...
Possibly one of the greatest speeches of our time.
Clap, clap.
Someone should send this to Taliban Jack. It sounds like he is talking directly to him.
90, 000 americans murdered by other americans since 9/11
26,620 deaths worldwide due to terrorism since 9/11.
if you're an american , odds are 3 to 1 that you're more likely to die from a gunshot wound from another american than from a terrorist.
Faulty logic will get you nowhere Jeff. Following your example, more people die from cancer than aids so lets just forget about aids then. And heart disease, Lou Geric's disease and just about everything else while we are at it.
I am truly amazed at the stupidity some people are stuck on.
Hey Jeff,
Do me a favor. Run some hypothetical numbers for me.
A terrorist is headed to NYC with dirty bomb.
Before he gets to NYC he realizes security is too tight. A bit rattled he goes back home to think things over. He decides that since he promised Allah a bomb today and since he's already made his martyr tape and already ritually shaved his pubes he's gonna detonate the thing.
Dead infidels are his ticket to Paradise. Doesn't much matter which infidels.
How many of the terrorist's fellow Torontonians die?
What are the odds that you blame the US rather than well, anyone or anything else?
Hear hear!!! Someone finnaly articulating this conflict correctly from am elected Government official yet. Telling it like it is, not what the appeasers living in there shell are spewing forth, with there lies & insanities. Wishing does not make bad things go away. Nor does not believing in evil make it go away. Grow up lefties.
Thanks for posting this speech Kate.
A gold star for Senator Sanctorum. For truth teller of the week. Its time we all faced up to this as one Nation against these lovers of death.
There psychotic attraction to death, resembles the Lefts love of killing all who are crippled, old or having psychological problems. They especially promote the murder of babies under the guise of doublethink. Its part & parcel of the same fetish. These folks both the left & jihadists) see paradise in murder ( the one exception are murders on death row) ). A malignant society believing destruction of human life, Innocent or guilty is pleasing to God. With there reverie of ruling in blood & horror.
To force us all to bend knee to an abomination of Religion. Lefties of course have no religion but will quickly submit if threatened. To them Christianity & America, is the worlds greatest ills. Not a Prophet who enjoyed the perversion of having sex with nine year olds. Many wives & personally killing his enemies. Great guy! This group are sick to the marrow.
Press Release: Vetted by Taliban Jeff and Jack "Taliban" Layton/NDP. Jack's soulmate, Nancy Pelosi burbles; Cindy "Peace Mom" bubbles; Hanoi Jane pops more LSD/DU; Ted swigs more single-malt, Japan Inc. scotch. ...-
Pelosi Statement on President Bush’s Speech on Fifth Anniversary of 9/11 Attacks
House Democratic Leader ^
Pelosi Statement on President Bush’s Speech on Fifth Anniversary of 9/11 Attacks Washington, D.C.– House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement today on President Bush’s speech last night on the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks: “On the fifth anniversary of September 11, President Bush continued to try to justify the invasion of Iraq by drawing nonexistent links to the 9/11 attacks. To try to make partisan gain out of such tragedy dishonors all those we lost on September 11. “In fact, the war in Iraq has made our effort to defeat terrorism and terrorists more difficult. Last.. ...-
free republic
Not to overly-support Jeff's arguments made, especially since there was no conclusion drawn by the statistics, but I think there is a point in there somewhere.
Perhaps it is not ignorance of one over the other, but can we focus on Lou Gehrig's disease, cancer, AIDS, etc. all at once? There's a mainly partisan political discussion over terrorism, Iraq, etc., but a lot of other issues that are resulting in American deaths are really falling through the cracks due to lack of attention.
To draw a parallel to Texas Canuck's thoughts, it would be as if every medical practitioner in America decided to focus solely on curing AIDS, leaving many cancer patients and others suffering from other medical conditions behind, because AIDS happens to be the 'hot topic.'
I think conversations deserve to become more diverse and inclusive of other issues. However, there is focus in the media, politicians, and bloggers on these issues which, while important, overshadow many other issues that deserve attention.
Why does it take a 5-year anniversary of a terrorist attack to become a platform for the war in Iraq, or any other issue for that matter? It was a day of mourning, and I think Mr. Santorum did his best to maintain that, all the while acknowledging that politics always happens and partisanism doesn't take a break.
Depublicrat
The Dems miscalculated big time. Even CNN is starting to come around to the notion that Iraq is the "front lines of the war on terror".
-Al Qaeda blows up World Trade Tower
-Al Qaeda declares Iraq the location of WWIII against the infidel, and pours its jihadis in to kill US troops,
and on the anniversary of the day AL Qaeda came to prominence in our lives,
Bush shouldn't even mention Iraq/the front lines?
God forbid the commander-in-chief mention the front lines of the war of our century in his address to the nation.
90,000 homicides out of a population of about 3,000,000 - add some 10 million undocumented aliens. So far, Jeff, I'm under-impressed at your efforts here.
odds are 3 to 1 that you're more likely to die from a gunshot wound from another american than from a terrorist
I would say that probably doesn't hold true with the Armed Forces, Jeff. Your little paradigm sort of falls apart when you factor in that we don't have armed jihadis at large in America and most Americans don't vacation in Mosul or Kabul. Suppose, Jeff, hypothetically, trying to keep within the spirit of your astute observation, that we had 90,000 armed jihadis at large here. Do you think the American death rate by terrorist might change? Ooops. You hadn't thought of that one, Jeff.
But, then it's early in the war, Jeff, next time around the jihadis most likely will kill us on our soil again in the tens of thousands numbers. Then, poor Jeff will have to reluctantly concede that the terrorists just might be a little more violent than the Americans.
Jeff: apples to oranges - criminal acts are random, not organized, nor do they effect politics/geopolitics.
Imagine what our discourse would be, if every violent criminal act in the country was related to a particular cause to which all the violent criminals vowed to advance.
To use another analogy, if I shot 3 grams of lead dust at you, you'd experience minor skin abrasions. If I shoot a lead bullet of the same weight at your heart you'd die. Same amount of lead, no?
Depublicrat - so, what are you saying? The WOT is taking attention from established medical issues? Seems sensible to me.
I'll put the race to cure AIDS anyday behind Iran's nuclear bomb threat. Or anthrax unleashed upon us.
If you are a five old at this place in time in the Israel or the West, what do you think could cut his/her life short faster than any established disease?
Hmmmmm,
Jeff might be on to something here.
Presumably there are 90,000 homicidal maniacs in the USA. Why doesn't dubbya give them all an AK47 along with 300 rounds of ammo and parachute them into al Qaeda training camps. If they make it out alive reduce their sentences and if they don't...oh well, so what.
I smell a movie script in here somewhere.
I think I understand Jeff completely!!! Here is my try.
Rewind 69 years.
European fascists are NOT killing Americans... Americans have a much better chance of being murdered than they do of being killed by European fascists... so let's just sit on our hands.
Let's ignore the fascist build-up; let's ignore the fascist ideology... it is none of our business and we'll just piss 'em off more if we stick our nose in it.
Same goes for the Japanese ... who gives a damn about the slaughter in China and rhetoric of Japanese militarists... they wouldn't dare take on the good ol'Uncle Sam.
Jeff has been with us for a long long time. He was here in the union movement prior to WW1 and WW2, he was with the isolationists, he was with the hippies in the 60's, and he is crawled into every corner of the UN and EU. Jeff is in our families, he's in our media, he's a good half of our population. And Jeff is not going away any time soon.
I ask then... using the little league analogy... when you have a member of your team who constantly belittles your efforts to play the game and who aggressively underestimates the other team... bringing down the moral of the whole team... Who's the Enemy?
350,000 deaths on the battlefield in Congo from 1997 to 2003.
at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians may have died because of the U.S. invasion.
some other numbers to bash your brains against. peace.
I think that Jeff's statistics are part of the problem. Where does he get his 90,000 stats from?
The homicide rate in the US is about 5 per 100,000 and depends on the city. With a population of about 300 million, that's about 15,000 a year. 15 times 5 is 75,000. Murder and homicide are not the same, by the way. The rates have dropped from peak years of about 10-15 years ago.
I don't get his point. Is he saying that terrorism, since it, thankfully, doesn't have the same total as homicide, should be ignored, so that we can pay all our attention to homicide? There are probably more deaths due to cancer than are due to terrorism, and more to homicides than to terrorism...so, we should focus on cancer rather than terrorism?
I like mich's answer. Jeff's analogy is irrelevant.
The causes are different.
Hey Jeff,
Number of deaths due to nuclear bombs sent by Iran = 0
Numbers of deaths due to death by American = 90,000
With stats like these we should give Iran nuclear armaments. Hell no! Everyone that wants one can have one.
The logic of the left = no logic at all.
26,620 deaths worldwide due to terrorism since 9/11.
Yes , that's true.
But, due to President Bush's vigilance against the Islamic Terrorist Savages that fiqure would be astronomically higher.
David Brown that's a fantastic idea. Finally a right winger that goes way beyond doom and gloom rhetoric with solid creative thinking.
This has no down side but many upsides. A great deterent, eases the jailhouse over-population problem, gets violent pimps and drug dealers off the streets and best of all it gives Islamofascists a good dose of their own medicine.
Allah Ackbar will turn into, holy **** Allah this is not Ackbar.
and all you chest beaters and worry warts, remember, the bush administration via CIA gave iran flawed but complete blueprints for a Fission Bomb. project merlin. read all about it in 'state of war' by James Risen.
the russian picked to deliver them under the guise of being a 'disgruntled refugee' spotted the flaw and coyly advised his iranian contact if they needed 'further technical assistance' he was available.
what a bunch of bloody hypocrites.
whine and fret over iranian nuke dreams and yet its the americans that gave them the complete drawings.
gee, maybe its an excuse to invade iran now.
First - that speech by Santorum was excellent. The agenda of a Death Cult, which is what Islamic fascism, is - is death. They are not interested in life, in the living, in enabling life, in enabling living. They are only interested in death. That's psychotic. We, the living, must fight a death cult. Nothing more need be said.
As for jeff - what's the point of flinging out numbers? I 'love' his 100,000 Iraqi civilians 'may have died because of the US invasion'. Ahh, the Lancet statistical error, yet again. And note his use of the word 'may'. Not DID die, but MAY have died. I can come up with suggestive stats to...
Did you know that 100,000 Canadians MAY HAVE died because of the SARS epidemic? Sure, we didn't count their deaths as due to SARS, but, we 'might have', mayn't we?
Did you know that 1 million Canadians MAY HAVE died due to x-causes? Not did die, but MAY have.
Did you know that 3.8 million, jeff, have died in the congo over 6 years? What's your point about introducing the congo statistics? Or any of your statistics?
yo ET, the causes are different but the victims are still dead; the grief is spread out over time and land area but still very painful, and much more of it.
it is a valid point. just ask the survivors of the victims of gun violence if they know of any efforts to conduct a 'war on gun violence'.
hey buddy, could you spare a billion to equip the police with sophisticated detection equipment? oh. it all went over to iraq.
very relevant point.
And Bush promised that he would not politicize 9/11, as he does only in election years. Little Ricky is about the only Republican who would run on Bush's record...which is why the voters are lining up to get rid of him in Penn state.
"What's also telling, as usual, is what Bush didn't say yesterday, and doesn't say, period.
He doesn't say we won't allow ourselves to be terrorized, and we won't be afraid. (That would run counter to the central Republican game plan for the mid-term election.) He doesn't say that in our zeal to fight the terrorists, we won't give up the qualities that make America great. He acknowledges no mistakes, he calls for no sacrifice, he refuses to reach out to those who disagree with him."
http://tinyurl.com/zfksm
to President Bush's vigilance against the Islamic Terrorist Savages that fiqure would be astronomically higher.
alot of the 26,620 deaths due to terrorism where in iraq against iraqis. thanks to mister bush
alot of the 26,620 deaths due to terrorism where in iraq against iraqis. thanks to mister bush
Yeah, what Jeffie said! (Although I'm wondering what happened to the 100k fabrication).
Hussein should have been left alone to put people in industrial shredders feet-first. The guy should have been allowed to continue filling up those mass graves. Dang that Dubya!
And the Taliban should have been allowed to continue with those mass executions in soccer stadiums! Who wants to watch Afstan footy anyway?
/sarc
no, jeff, you can't move into regressive causality. The deaths in Iraq, committed by Iraqis, were due to Iraqis. You can't, empirically and/or logically, claim that they were 'due to Bush'.
How about trying another (invalid) causal link? You could say that the deaths in Iraq, by Iraqis against other Iraqis, were due to Saddam Hussein, who governed as a repressive tribal dictator, setting up his minority tribe as dominant over the majority - and thus, causing all the current hatreds that are the root cause of the current murders.
You can even go further than that in your regressive links. You can claim that Islam is the root cause, for it endorses tribalism, and tribalism endorses hatred of Others. Or, you could say that TV is the root cause, for it shows them a different lifestyle. Or...
My point is, that your stats are pointless and irrelevant, and you opinions are ungrounded.
And, as M. Matt points out, to prevent these deaths in Iraq, Hussein should have been left in power - except, that, gosh and golly, he caused even more deaths! So?
John - what's your point? You are complaining about what Bush DIDN'T say? What a silly thing to say. So - he didn't say that we wouldn't 'allow ourselves to be terrorized'? Does that mean that we will? If he had said it, would that mean that you would no longer be afraid? Did he say that we would give up the qualities 'that make America great'? Didn't he say that we wouldn't give up freedom? And that's the basis of America! So - what's your point??
It's incredible - how people complain and complain. They complain about what someone DID say, and what he DIDN'T say. Enough. Stop complaining and get on with the job of fighting fascism.
90,000?
How many repeat offenders?
How many taken off the streets for repeat offensives?
How many released early to re-offend?
Got to love those liberal judges to help out your numbers Jeff. There are alot of statistics missing in your argument and alot of reasons why the numbers if accurate are as high. One very simple reason Liberalism! Giv'em another chance, he can be rehabilitated. yada yada yada!
Did you also know that more people die in the USA due to prescription drugs and malpractice then die from gun shots wounds, back to your point.
You got a point. Lock em up and through away the key. But I am guessing, you Jeff, would be the first to argue that would not be the right thing to do. It would not be fair, that their rights are being ignored. blah blah blah.
I know one thing there has not been a repeat offense of September 11th.
True Iraqi's have died, your numbers are questionable though. I would concede if you could give us some sources. BUT! Here is the difference, we are mournful for loss of life, we do not rejoice in it unlike Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas oh and wait a minute not to mention the Islamic fanatics all over the world.
Iraqi's were dying when the US was not there. So, they were dying for suppression, children were being raped in front of their parents, and people shredded for?? there could never be a reason for this.
Unfortunatley the Iraqi people are being killed by Al-Qaeda and by Islamic fanatics.
I wonder with all your insight and wisdom you might want to explain to us all unenlighted people why they are fighting so hard there?
The simple truth of the whole matter is this,
If we do nothing 90,000 deaths by Americans in the US will look more like these statistics
# of deaths of American's By American's = 0
# of deaths of American's by Al-Qaeda = 300,000,000
and of course lets not forget about us Canadians there would not be much of us left either if any!
You never will get peace by ignoring someone who hates you.
Here are some more statistics for you. add em up. If in fact your numbers are correct The USA has saved 80,000 lives in Iraq. The stats I heard before the war in Irag were 5000/month at the hands of Saddam. at 5000 over 36 months that is 180,000. The US has reduced the death toll by 80,000. Whoa! you know if we had more politicians like President Bush in the US they could reduce the death toll in the US by 50% wouldn't that be something!
Born dumb die dumb, it won't change. The left are followers not leaders, drones not queens, groupies not individuals, parrots not thinkers and practically, just plain dumb. A group of losers that feel sorry for other losers and try to drag down those that would stand up for themselves. They ridicule the productive in our society, as they know they are capable of nothing. The left and bacteria, they have a culture all their own.
"at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians may have died"
Or lived.
You people are completely childish, wasting your time with conspiracy theories.
I'm afraid this site is losing credibility to the point where it is no interesting anymore. Your formula is too easy: if Bush* said it, it's right; if anyone other than Bush* said it it's wrong. Your not thinking for yourselves at all.
A hobby right winger stands out like a sore thumb when they agree with absolutely every single thing their idols preach and criticize absolutely every single thing their idols opponents say.
Yawn.
Funny, Ken...the same thing can be said for the looney left. Go figure! Birds of a feather flock together, I guess. Your insight is truly pedestrian.
Thanks to Kate for providing the Santorum speech. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.
Regarding the thread debate, most of the Iraqis that have died were at the hands of suicide bombers and fanatical terrorist nutbars, and therefore should be credited to the "terrorists" column, not the "American" column.
To clear up an outrageous fiction, there are about 16,000 (not 90,000) murders in the US per year. I suppose that since our current murder rate is about 30% less than in 1995, according to Lefty Jeff's logic, we shouldn't worry with solving murders anymore.
The whole argument that the US can't chew gum and walk at the same time is just retarded. One would think the US had pulled all their Cancer and Aids researchers and sent them to the front lines. The fact is, we are fighting the war on terror AND are still doing all the other things we always do.
Those amazing people who still don't think terrorism is "that big" of a threat, should realize that as awful as 9/11 was, it was not as bad as it could have been, and it was not as bad as the terrorists hoped it would be. If Flight 93 had been successful and wiped out half the US Congress, we could have been politically crippled to a large degree. 25,000 people worked in the WTC and if the evacuation of the WTC was not as efficient as it was, or if the planes had hit on even lower floors, the death toll would have been much higher. It is nothing short of amazing that our stock market was back up and functioning in 6 days -- could have been much worse. The plane that hit the Pentagon could have hit more of a critical command center.
I can't believe that 9/11 wasn't bad enough that anyone could possibly downplay the threat it exposed. But, thank God it wasn't much worse, because it sure could have been.
ken,
Thanks for that semi-reality check...as a fairly regular poster here I am often dismayed at the partisan tag-team debating going on.I am not surprised you were immediately attacked for expressing your views.That is very sad.Though in fairness,you undermined your validity by targeting solely conservatives.
Personally,I support our efforts in Afgan',it is a warranted,noble and just battle against a cult of proven mass murderers.
On the other hand,Bush's invasion of Iraq has proven,so far,to have created more problems than it has solved and was based on false pretenses.
Although a dedicated conservative,I am also an independent thinker(at least I try to be).It is only fair to disclose I have never liked nor trusted G.W.Bush.I believe he was determined to oust Sadam from the start,unfinished business you might say.Admittedly,being pro-US I was all for them going in to Iraq at the time.Between Sadam's stonewalling inspectors,his general arrogant attitude towards the UN's demand's,his previous known use of WMDs and the spin coming out of the Whitehouse,hell,most of us were cheering the anticipated'shock and awe'and downfall of a murderous dictator.
But,Bush has since shamelessly,dishonestly and repeatedly changed his reasons for the invasion of Iraq as political curcumstances warranted...
1-Stop the development of WMD's
2-Oust Saddam Hussein
3-To free Iraqis from brutality of Hussein.
4-Create a democracy for a group of people who,as far as I am aware,were not asking for democratic reform.
5-To fight terrorism
(Forgive me if I missed any)
None of this changes the fact they are today entrenched in Iraq in a new war against insurgents and must face that reality.I have yet to hear anyone,lefty or righty articulate a reasonable scenario that includes either peace for Iraqi's or coalition soldiers going home to their families happening any time soon.
Bush is in a military and political quagmire in Iraq.Worst of all,his ill-timed decision to go after Hussein has weakened international support for the crucial WOT.That in itself is a tragedy.
BTW,I have no doubt that if a democratic president had invaded Iraq,posters here would be dedicated to their 'partisan team' and arguing the exact opposite of what they do now.I believe that to be the truth in ken's otherwise myopic viewpoint.We would all do well to remind ourselves of it from time to time.
Ken, if you can do better, be more informative, entertaining and insightful, then crank up that website.
The only problem I see with SDA is that the lefties that show up can only troll. They're completely unable to present coherent and rational viewpoints.
Jeff, so if I understand your argument right, we should ignore islamo-fascists until they are killing 90,000 Americans each year.
Canadian Observer,
Yopur list can be summed up as "all of the above" plus two more:
1. The root cause of the islamo-fascist movement is the grotesque impoverishment, tyrany and ignorance in the middle east. Iraq is at the centre of the swamp to be drained.
2. For ten years, the US and NATO had been obliged to keep a military force in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to check Hussein. This was the very expensive result of the mistake of not removing him after GWI.
The trolls here, and all the lefties everywhere, pooh-pooh the idea of war. They never have a suggestion of how to deal with reality.
Canadian Observer said, "BTW,I have no doubt that if a democratic president had invaded Iraq,posters here would be dedicated to their 'partisan team'..." I think you're wrong, CO.
But my question is: Why the H*ll didn't a democratic president invade Iraq? They bloody well should have.
That's the whole point, CO: the Dems under Beel Cleenton, with his MSM cheerleaders and Hollywood sycophants did bugger all when Al-Qaeda and crew were doing everything they could to YELL AT AMERICA: WE HATE YOU. WE WANT TO DESTROY YOU. HEY, LOOK AT US. WE'RE AFTER YOU. WE'RE KILLING YOU. THIS IS JUST THE START.
What did Clinton and his Dem toadies do, aided and abetted by an MSM that was asleep at the wheel?
Next to Nothing.
Clinton simply pursued his favourite indoor sport by not having to even leave his desk and left the whole sorry mess to President George W. Bush to clean up.
It's a big clean up job. 'Can't be done in a handy minute, let alone a month, or year. Wars are like that. Who knows when they'll end? I'm sure that in 1939, very few people had any idea that WWII would continue into the mid-'40s.
People of honour and integrity, for the sake of their children and grandchildren, do what needs to be done to ensure their safety, health, and well-being--and it may mean self-sacrifice, something that seems to be in short supply these days--especially on the Left.
Jeff,
100,00 Iraqis die because of the American invasion??
This is a bogus number presented in a deliberately ambiguous way.
The muslsims are killing muslims in Iraq, not the Americans.
I wipe my arse with you.
"I believe he was determined to oust Sadam from the start"...
Well no sh*t, Sherlock. (Or in this case, Canadian Observer.)
Regime change in Iraq was official US government policy signed into law under Clinton.
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm
Mr.T you SCHMUCK,
One doesn't need "blueprints" to develop an atom bomb. Any engineer or physicist worth their salt these days can figure out a way to make a nuclear explosuion.
What prevents most nations or organisations from doing it are the following:
1. Desire and need
2. Immense resources.
3. Skilled craftsman.
4. Production equipment for Uranium enrichment.
BTW Does anyone wonder about the Pakistani series of "explosions" when they got into a pissing match with India? Well, from what I understand, they were basically farts, rather than bangs.
Does anyone else have further info?
Number of times
'death to America' shouted - 1,000,000,000.
Number of times
'death to Israel' shouted - 1,000,000,000.
Number of times
'death to Islam' shouted - 0
The last line says plenty. "I believe the president, given all the mistakes that this administration has made in the conduct of this war — and they certainly are numerous — the president has it right. This is the greatest threat for our generation, and i pray we have the courage to confront it." What wars aren't a story of mistakes and misjudgments? It's all about recovering and learning to adapt and win. Look at past wars and the mistakes that were made at a huge cost to life. TV and the movies have distorted reality for people. Our expectations should be more realistic and grounded. Unfortunately many of us live in a vitual reality most of the time and don't want to come out of it. If this is the case we have no future worth looking forward to. It will all be backward. We'll have to see if our own useful idiots will defeat us. That's the only way we can lose.
Kate,
Thanks for that link.
"My Administration has pursued, and will continue to pursue, these objectives through active application of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions."
I don't believe the United Nations security council EVER created a resolution supporting the invasion of Iraq.The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 didn't mention a US led invasion either...I stand by my belief Bush was determined to invade Iraq,in great part,because of his father's lack of resolve in GW1 and despite international pressure to let UN resolutions run their course.
BTW,I made it clear this was my own belief,I did not misrepresent my theory as fact.Thus I do not understand the insulting tone of your reply.
batb-thanks for your feedback,was just trying to point out how partisanship itself can become cultish.Towing a party line ONLY because it is a party line is 'brainless' and all too common on both sides here.Admittedly,my example could have been a little less extreme.The important part is to be aware of the tendency,that's all.IMHO
Canadian Observer: Thanks for your feedback. I totally agree that mindless, knee-jerk partisanship is something to be avoided.
I don't subscribe to it, on either side.
But I do find that a great laziness has tended to seep into many on the Left, in large part because the Zeitgeist is on their side. They don't have to think, they're not challenged to think the way those of us to the Right of them are, because most of the elites, actually all of the elites, political, media, academia, agree with them. They're riding high.
On the other hand, those of us who not only don't share Zeitgeist beliefs but are often hostile to many of its ideas and propostions, often have to dance as fast as we can to defend our positions.
It's not a bad thing to learn to defend one's turf with more reason than "Well, it's just mine." Being challenged to present facts and substantiated arguments causes one to really examine one's ideas--and if you "win" the debate, you've done it fair and square not because the deck's stacked in your favour.
Canadian Observer, I can't see where Ken made a post to be debated. The only comment I see that Ken posted was the one slamming the board.
everybody please keep the more outrage's trolls talking because CISI i'm sure need's all the sh*t they can get on them in the future.
"Thus I do not understand the insulting tone of your reply."
You have just acknowledged that you did not know that regime change in Iraq was long standing American policy, approved by Congress and signed into law by Bill Clinton.
You know, that's pretty basic background information, and it speaks directly to your "belief". that Bush "was determined to oust Sadam from the start".
Yet, despite learning that you lacked knowledge of this most basic of historical facts, you've nonetheless, decided to press the point.
That's not a promising development.
Tom,
Point taken.I was not intending to support his anti-right musings.
As it seems I am a rare commodity at this site,that is a conservative who does not like,nor trust Bush,his ONE statement struck home with me...
"Your formula is too easy: if Bush* said it, it's right; if anyone other than Bush* said it it's wrong. Your not thinking for yourselves at all."
You see,he parrotted the exact claim made daily by posters here about the Bush-haters and their tiresome anti-US rhetoric.I just happened to see some truth to it for both'sides'.The fact is the left are not the only ones guilty of blind partisanship at times.(Though our regular assortment of trolls are the undisputed masters of it.)
I appreciate yourself and batb further querying my message and giving me the opportunity to clarify rather than attacking it.I've actually been called a lefty here before by daring to wander from accepted conservative musings.If you doubt these sentiments exist at this site,I invite you to give it a try yourself.
How many times do the leaders of these Islamic countries have to continue saying that they want to see Israel wiped off the planet. Israel is a democratically elected country. Point out to me all the democratically elected Islamic countries. We have our own Islamic organizations here in Canada spouting the same crap. Look up the meaning of infidel. Whether you are from the left or right you are considered an infidel. You can either wake today and look at the fact, we have been at war with these islamic fanatics for years or you can kneel and face mecca. Perhaps we need to have an attack on our country, cities, or towns to wake you up. On the other hand you would probably decide that it was conjured up by our own government (being a conservatve government). I did not need to read the transcript by Rick Santorum to see what is happening today. What I have a hard time with is why you (the left) cannot see it.