The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is fed up with the blatant misinformation coming out of the Calvert government;
The reality is that, since Calvert took over, there have been more deficit budgets than surplus. The Provincial Auditor lays it out in his 2005 Volume 2 report. Calvert became Premier in February, 2001. His first full budget cycle (2001-02) saw a $483 million deficit. In 2003, he managed to increase the deficit to $654 million. In 2004, when oil prices saved the day, the deficit was reduced to $100 million. In 2005 there was surplus, and you can bet the auditor will show another surplus this year.Bottom line: Calvert racked up massive deficits for three years before he turned a surplus. They tell the "13 consecutive balanced budgets" lie with a straight face because of the "fiscal stablization fund." Funny thing about that fund -- there is no fund. Unlike Alberta, there is no actual account with money in it that can be used for a rainy day. When the government "withdraws" money from the "fund" the government debt goes up by the exact same amount.
(Emphasis mine.)
So whom are you going to trust?
Moody's, Dominion Bond Rating Agency, Standard and Poor's or David McLean and the Taxpayers Federation?
Who has credibility?
If you were going to lend someone millions or billions who would you ask for advice?
The bond rating agencies just keep on rating the NDP Government of Saskatchewan higher and higher.
To be fair, let's take a moment to remember that Saskatchewan's credit rating did used to be higher than it is now - under another NDP Government - until conservatives drove it into the ground.
And I ask again: Whom do you trust? The big bond rating agencies or David McLean and the Taxpayer's federation?
Ahem...
Just a little 'creative accounting' going on.
Shouldn't surprise anyone - they all do it at one time or another.
:)
The sheer edacity, lefty can lie, steal, and cheat
and it's ok. He knows best. Got any rural roads fixed yet Kate.
Here in BC we got tax and spend liberals but the tax and spend NDP before them they didn't even bother to fix the roads.
BC's liberals are spending up a storm like the dippers but massive road work everywhere in the city although all this is for the Olympics.
Wonder what the dippers spent all those billions on. Bet there are some pretty happy Union folks around, rich too.
Hmmm ... Standard and Poors Bond Rating Agency increased Saskatchewan Credit Rating. Dominion Bond Rating Agency RAISED Saskatchewan Credit Rating. Moody's Bond Rating Agency raised Saskatchewan's Credit Rating.
Hmm... who should I believe? (David McLean OR Moody's, Standard and Poor's and Moody's). I think I will go with the international financial experts. They are the capitalists 'capitalists'! They have no axe to grind with the Calvert Government. McLean is completely and utterly out to lunch. He is not even reading the provincial auditor correctly.
In fact - the bond rating agency actually praised the use of a 'fiscal stabalization fund' to offset old loans which are at a higher rate of interest rather than (as McLean calls for) letting the money sit in a low interest yield account.
The CTF is wrong on this one.
The issue is not that David McLean knows more than Moody's or Dominion Bond Rating Agency or Standard and Poors. What those ratings read is the past present and future conditions and make conclusions resulting in a rating system.
How many of those ratings agencies have offices here that see what happens on a daily basis. The people who live here are leaving ... how's that for an economic indicator?
Now that you have heard from the bond rating agencies - here is what some stoggy old capitalist bankers have to say (and they say McLean IS WRONG!).
http://www.nbc.ca/bnc/files/bncpdf/en/2/e_pr_ae_budgetSK.pdf
But don't take my word for it - here is what the Bank of Nova Scotia has to say.
"Good job growth helped underpin the second fastest pace of retail sales growth in the country last year" Bank of Nova Sotia - April 04, 2006
http://www.scotiacapital.com/English/bns_econ/saskprofile.pdf
So - who do I believe ??? Right wingers with an axe to grind or reputable corporate and financial institutions. McLean loses on this one!
I never said Saskatchewan had a bad credit rating. I said the NDP is telling an outright lie when they claim the budget has been balanced 13 times in a row. It's false.
Credit ratings have nothing to do with deficits or surpluses. Credit ratings are set depending on a province's ability to pay back the debt owed.
For a province rich in oil, potash and uranium, Saskatchewan is a pretty safe bet for the big banks. They know the government can always go back to the people, raise taxes, and pay them back.
It doesn't change the fact that Calvert ran deficits for three of the past four years, and they lie about it every time.
Just saw a segment on CBC Newsworld at 1:40 PM Pacific Time called "War Spin" with Jane Arraf, formerly of CNN. Arraf sounds Arab. Hmmm. So, they were discussing war spin and never mentioned the growing scandal about doctored fauxtos (photos). Pathetic. I can't even believe this bullshit.
Then, they mentioned that on this date back on yada yada, America dropped a bomb on Japan and killed hundreds of thousands. "Peace activists met at parks and....." Oh, they never mentioned that dropping that bomb saved hundreds of thousands of Allied lives and that if the Japanese had f'ing surrendered after the first bomb, they wouldn't have had to have bombed them a second time.
Then, they talked about Fidel's replacement and painted him as a reformer, but "probably not if they end up getting a Starbucks on every corner." Oh, and the health system is a "valued treasure" and a "cornerstone" of Cuba. Never once did anyone ask or mention anything about elections.
Spit.
Show me where I am wrong in that post, and I will gladly give you the point.
You just said: "For a province rich in oil, potash and uranium, Saskatchewan is a pretty safe bet for the big banks. They know the government can always go back to the people, raise taxes, and pay them back."
That reminds me of when Conservative Premier Grant Devine told the New York Bond Rating agencies .... "Saskatchewan has so much going for it your can afford to mismange the economy and still break even". (16 Convicted Conservative Cabinet Ministers and MLA's later ... the rest is history).
You still haven't shown me how I am wrong. That's because you can't.
To speak to the conversation between David and Leftdog, both sides are right and wrong. I live here (you might to) and I always have the nagging feeling that we are not doing as well as we should be doing. Our resources are only now beginning to be tapped (abrupt reversal of NDP policy on business taxes and uranium development), and I truly believe that is to little to late. We are in a cycle of reducing population in the demographic we need, the young. I personally know in the vicinity of 50 people that now call Alberta home. Almost the entire graduating class in my oldest son's high school now live in the same area of Calgary (they were a tight bunch), and that was a class of 88 students. I run a good size transportation company in Saskatoon and like many others, cannot find people to work, and if we do, they get their experience and bolt for, guess where. If our current government has any foresight whatsoever, they would have moved to create a more tax friendly, business friendly environment years ago, then maybe, just maybe, I could see my kids a bit more regularly. Saskatchewan has one more chance to get it right or the next demographic to leave will be us 50 year old taxpayers who seem to be holding the whole house of cards together. Then what. Then we get the chant about how expensive it is there and you have to pay health premiums etc. I have lived there and most employers pay the premium, at least the ones I have dealt with. The housing thing, bogus! Yes the prices are twice as high, but your mortgage payment isn't. My take is an extra $10 per hour (family income) accounts for the increase and that is doable for most escapees. This does not factor in the lower personal income tax or the lack of PST. Meanwhile we trumpet the fact that we have the highest minimum wage in Canada. That is something to be proud of (sic). The $5 rule applys there as well, our minimum wage is what 7.95/hr. Well guess what, Mcdonalds in Calgary will start you at 12 per hour, with benefits. To sum up my rant, the fact that the government lies about it's deficit record has absolutely no impact on my life and in fact could care less that they are lying, it is the NDP after all, and further I could care less what the BNS has to say as again no impact on me. All I care about is that our current gang has got to go, or we will see a new wave of people leaving, and this time it will be the money leaving.
The National Bank says you are wrong.
http://www.nbc.ca/bnc/files/bncpdf/en/2/e_pr_ae_budgetSK.pdf
All you can do is just yell loud and hope the feeble minded believe your lie.
So hurry up with your witty little right wing retort . In fact why not slander the National Bank so I can send your dishonest comments to their legal department and point out who you work for?
Leftdog -- they cut and pasted right of the government's financial statements and regurgitated their press release! Check out the report from the provincial auditor which includes SUMMARY financial statements.
(Page 37)
http://www.auditor.sk.ca/saskrepnew.nsf/html/2005vol2.html/$file/2005reportvol2.pdf
The national bank has cut and pasted directly from the government materials -- and not the provincial auditor.
The Fiscal Stabilization Fund breaks every rule of accounting. I recommend you read up a bit.
The fact that someone else believes a lie, doesn't make the lie suddenly true.
The CTF, much like the National Citizens Coalition, is just another right-wing/business funded organization masquarading as a grass roots group. People should remember that before accepting at face value anything either of these groups have to say.
Jeff Cosford:
Hope those rich foreigners enjoy the Olympics, funded by the working people of BC.
I am sure you would know all about that.
Iberia - just so you know - my last post was directed to Mr. McLean
Leftdog,
Have you no comprehension at all about this post? What Maclean is saying is absolutely and factually correct.
The Sask NDP have not have 13 consecutive balanced budgets, even though Calvert say they have.
Maclean did not talk about about rating agencies. He did not talk about previous NDP or Conservative administrations. It's irrelevant...
He just submits the government has not been truthful in what they have relayed to the voters. These morons are the ones in power right now and they're the ones misleading the public.
What part of this post don't you get? Have you no ability to get past your left wing rhetoric and admit that this fact is true? It's Calvert's own words, and it's found to be erroneous by the provincial auditor.
If you have other financial details that we are not aware of, and if it is in your capacity as an auditor (or accountant, etc..) that you can prove otherwise, please do so... But if not...
Are you that blinded by dogma?
David, don't even bother with this troll...
I believe the three major bond rating agencies (see David they are 'Bond' raters - not 'credit' raters) and I take their word (AND the words of the Bank of Nova Scotia and the National Bank) before I would EVER believe ANYTHING that comes from that poster. They have no political agenda for Saskatchewan - that fellow does!
This has nothing to do with bond rating agencies... Man, are you that dense?
Good lord you are dense - IT IS THE BOND RATING AGENCIES WHO SAY SASKATCHEWAN HAS HAD 13 BALANCED BUDGETS!! - IT IS THE NATIONAL BANK OF CANADA WHO SAYS SASKATCHEWAN HAS HAD 13 BALANCED BUDGETS - it is David McLean who says Saskatchewan has not had 13 balanced budgets - My point (gawd you are thick)is that I believe the Bond Raters and the Banks before I believe David McLean!!! That is not 'dogma' that is reality. Sheeeesh.
First of all, its the provincial auditor, who has free reign of the provinces books (with exception of the Crowns) who has determined that the NDP have not run 13 consecutive balanced budgets. I tend to trust someone with that access more than the National Bank.
Secondly, could you tell me the source of the National Bank conclusions? Sure, its there on their promo sheet... But unless those are audited conclusions, they may has just as likely come from Thompson, who was in NY in June meeting with the bond rating agencies.
It's in the best interest of all governments to score high on their ratings, because ultimately it reduces their interest payments, so I doubt that either Thompson or Calvert will trot out the audited report and report that, although its there if someone wants to dig.
That being said, you are dense, you missed the point completely and you are spouting leftist dogma... You can't help it
Troll engage...OFF
AFter the defeat (thank GOD) of Grant Devine, the Provincial Auditor was shocked at the number of funds all over the Sask Government Books. He recommended that they all be consolodated into one account, the General Revenue Fund. The NDP government kept the Fiscal Sabalization fund separate and THAT is what the AUDITOR is not happy with. He wants only one Government account - the GRF. McLean is not being honest in all of this. The Bond Rating agencies and the banks have access to the Audtior and all of his reports. McLean, for political purposes, is trying to make this into some big scandal. But he is wrong. Now who is it that is totally motivated by 'dogma'. Again, I say that the Bond Raters and the Banks know what the Auditor thinks - and they still concluded that Saskatchewan has had 13 consecutive balanced budgets. Period.
Fred Wendel doesn't think anything, he knows. It's not an objective judgement.
Irrespective, the bond rating agencies decide to rate SK higher, great, but that wasn't the intent of the post.
And neither are the 1980 Conservatives under Grant Devine (it's fun to hear that drum beating still... run out of good ideas? Please, get over it.) Tommy Douglas believed in sterlizing retarded people.. How far back should we go?
Once again, ONE bond rater says in a promo sheet that the SK government has had 13 consecutive, although you didn't quite explain the methodology in coming to that conclusion...
My point was there are people whose dogma will not allow them to see anything other than the point of view they have conditioned themselves to see. Some people, left and right can give credit where credit is due. Leftdog, you are not one of those people. Calvert misled. Left or right, its the truth.
Why, if the budget is in surplus, does the accumulated deficit of the province increase when they withdraw from the "fiscal stabilization fund"?
And why again would the government of saskatchewan be selling bonds in those years?
I think you will agree that the definition of a balanced budget is "spending as much, or less than what the government takes in."
In the years in question, the government was spending MORE than it took in.
And the government provides this admission each and every year in their financial statements:
1. Significant Accounting Policies
These financial statements are prepared in accordance with the generally accepted accounting principles for senior
governments as recommended by the Public Sector Accounting Board of the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, with
the following exceptions:
• transfers to and from the Fiscal Stabilization Fund are included in the determination of surplus for the year; and,
• pension liabilities are not recorded in the financial statements. The General Revenue Fund accounts for defined benefit
pension obligations on a cash basis.
In other words, the governments uses generally accepted accounting principles except for two massive areas:
1) The pension liabilities: If they showed this as an actual liability this would balloon the provincial debt by more than $4 billion.
2) The fiscal stabilization fund. They book transfers from the fund as revenue, but the debt increases instead. They do not book the FSF as a liability, which it is.
Sorry for being so lengthy. I just wanted to nail this one down.
" Saskatchewan has one more chance to get it right or the next demographic to leave will be us 50 year old taxpayers who seem to be holding the whole house of cards together."
I don't think it really matters what they do. In a few years the indian population will outnumber the white guys. Your on a slippery slop to hell.
Glad I left long ago. As far as I'm concerned SASK isn't even a nice place to visit.(as in "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there").
Horny Toad
Well, I just finished my delicious dinner of flying pig with all the trimmings. I'm now going to sit down, flip on my Max wired TV, watch the National and believe everything Peter tells me. Once I'm done that, I'm going to log back on to the Internet through that company with the cute little mouse sports car thingy (I'll take that over some guy named Shaw or Roger...those people annoy me with their free market thinking) and renew my membership in the party that has driven so many of my friends and relatives out of my neighbourhood. Once I've taken my mandatory 20 minute refreshment break, I'll resume my evening by turning off the air conditioner powered by that company with the nice orange trucks (heck, orange IS a great colour isn't it?). Tomorrow morning on my way to the office I'll stop and renew my licence plates with the company who keeps reminding me over and over to be careful out there (why would you go to someone else? Oh ya, right, that's because there is no one else to go to so we might as well all be safe out there). Once I get to the office, I'll pay the nice little lady behind the cafeteria counter for my coffee (hey, I got a good deal last week when I gave her my seat in the front row at the union meeting) and make the slow walk up the marble stairs to my corner office overlooking all those poor peasants trying to eek out a living while I do my best to look busy.
And, when I get home, I'll do it all over again.
******************
Journal entry August 9, 2006
Signed,
Leftdog
PS Diary,
All them there money grubbing whackos called business people can kiss my fat freckled ass for all I care. I gots me a pension, a job I can't be fired from and a boss who lovingly calls me his bitch on days that end in Y. Man, I love my life. Too bad others can't see why this place is paradise compared to that hole next door (to the west).
It wouldn't really bother Calvert if a bunch of fifty year olds left the province.
He would just create the "Department of Leaving",hire another 1000 bureaucrats to work there,and appoint a Minister to run the department.(That would make 23 ministers out of 29 MLA's)
David McLean is right,they are outspending their income and the budget.
BTW,where has the billion plus of oil bonus money gone?
bruno canada, the bond raters also rated ENRON top notch. I wouldn't blindly trust the bond raters.
enron:
feel free to take in 'smartest guys in the room' (profiles on imdb.com)
the lying that took place was biblical in portion.
everything they could think of to prop up the stock price.
selling futures in the weather of all things.
taxpayer makes a very good point.
in addition to enron, wasn't there a company called Bre-X or something along that lines as well? I seem to recall a huge rush in share buying based almost solely upon positive bond ratings. we know what a sad state of affairs that turned out to be...
if the bond ratings service were truly reliable indicators of what's actually happening, shouldn't there be an influx of people into this province to match the "growth" that's taking place? As usual with this government, things just don't add up and the scary part is they have admitted they don't have an answer as to why.
My only hope is that the weak-kneed electorate out there doesn't feel pity on these sorry excuses for leaders and toss a life preserver to them. Let 'em sink...
leftdog:
Just a note to you. The NDP is going down hard in this next election. I'm hoping they will be completely run out of the House and I'm guessing we are pretty close to making that happen. BTW, I personally will be working hard to make the NDP wither as much as possible.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but you're too easy to abuse.
Yes, throw out the NDP and elect the Conservatives. They did so well running things the last time that they had to change their name to the Saskatchewan Party. And who knows? Maybe the third time around will be (un)lucky and they will actually succeed in bankrupting the province.
This discussion reminds me of the NDP and what they did to BC. Despite destroying the economy and creating the conditions for BC to lose population, there were still voters who elected NDPers.
Leftdog and iberia show the mentality of the left and a refusal to see reality for what it is.
The population loss sums it all up. If Sask had good government and a good economy people would be moving to not away. Most people like to stay where friends and family are.
enough
"This discussion reminds me of the NDP and what they did to BC. Despite destroying the economy and creating the conditions for BC to lose population, there were still voters who elected NDPers."
Precisely why a lot of BCr's voted NDP - many of them have a distinct dislike of newcomers, no matter where they come from. Too many people flocking there - it's becoming California north.
JMO.
enough:
You have a selective memory. Have you forgotten how Alberta welfare migrants to BC were given bus tickets back home? It was the Asian economic flu that hurt the BC economy much more than any mistakes by the NDP. Or perhaps you could explain how the NDP forced world commodity prices down.
Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok4ua,
when you exclaim "Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!" it sounds like you have summed up the whole NDP record as far as population loss goes, non-existent lines of credit and the way the current administration kisses ass in urban areas while mooning the rural people at the same time. spudco, broh, highways, patronage, general investment practices into areas they have no business being in (cable tv, security systems, etc), available hours legislation...oh God, I could go on and on.
there is no denying that this NDP administration has been getting weaker and weaker as each week passes. Just like the Riders, mediocrity rules in what has been a government being run by second, third and even a few fourth stringers (kim trew is a real treasure to the province, isn't he...). The time for a change in philosphy and people is needed now. If hell freezes over and my pork chops fly from my barbecue to my kitchen table and the NDP manage to win the next election, my fear will be realized and Saskatchewan will see the largest exodus of people in the history of the province.
The NDP have run their course. They managed to stay on the pasture by the skin of their teeth last time around. Next year the electorate will finally send them a loud and clear message -- thanks and enjoy the trip to the glue factory.
BTW iberia...you may want to tell us the story about little old Brian Clark...Bingogate....BC Fast Ferries....etc etc. I'm sure the Asian Economic Flu had a lot to do with Alberta sending the welfare bums back to Lotus Land....not to mention Bingo Gate, the Fast Ferries et.al.
I think with the boom going on now in Sask that all you blogging tories are getting desperate. The NDP are strong with the majority of people and the SaskaTories are strong with the minority(60,000 farmers versus 500,000 working people). You are drawing straws and quoting numbers that you have no access to. I think you are making it up as you go. The Auditor of Sask would point it out if there was any truth to this. He has in the past. Super Dave go back to your tory allies and cry in your soup. You couldn't administer an enema.
ok4ua,
you say "The NDP are strong with the majority of people and the SaskaTories are strong with the minority(60,000 farmers versus 500,000 working people)"
Interesting breakdown of the electorate as it seems to me the breakdown in 2003 was like this...
POPULAR VOTE
NDP 44.62%
SASK PARTY 39.35%
LIB 14.17%
TOTAL SEATS
NDP 30
SASK PARTY 28
Using your ratios, the NDP should've won 89% of the popular vote and 51 of the 58 seats during the last election. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN so I think you're underestimating just how much disdain a full 40% of the population has for this government.
And,, based on the fact that the outflow of our young people hasn't receded, nevermind been stemmed totally, it would be safe to assume that there's some who voted NDP last time won't be doing the same this time.
Care to enlighten us with any more bullshit numbers? NDPers like you never seem to lack in that area.
Ok4u - don't worry - these are the SAME folks who swore that they would win the 1999 election. Did they - NOPE!! So they licked their wounds - went back to bad mouthing this province - turned the volume up and loudly predicted their upcoming massive win in the 2003 campaign - OOoops (lost again- hahahahahaha) - licked their wounds - kicked out Elwin and who did the elect as their leader??? Well they elected the guy who used to send all the free booze over to the legislature when he was the Ministerial Assistant for a Conservative Cabinet Minister who was convicted of FRAUD and BREACH OF TRUST! - So now we listen to them (yet again) yelling from the rooftops about their pending electoral victory!! They will not win! They will lose again! Why? Because they are not honest about their agenda; their guy has a bad history; and people do not like the nutbar anger we see from Saskatchewan's right wing.
pissed off: (or is that just pissed?)
ummm...it's Glen Clarke, not Brian; "bingogate" happened in the early 80's and Mike Harcourt resigned partly due to this (even though he had nothing to do with it); you mentioned fast ferries and bingogate twice; and, it was BC sending the bums back to Alberta and not the other way around.
It's become quite obvious from your comments that you're a clueless drunk.
This is great...
First of all, leftdog abandoned the point of the original post once he couldn't compete with the logic. Then the usual suspects jump in claiming an NDP victory in the next provincial election.
To top it all off, we hear the term "nutbar anger" in posts that have the language...
"OOoops (lost again- hahahahahaha)", "They will not win! They will lose again!" and
"you're a clueless drunk"
Yes, only the right wingers rant...
Hilarious....
Forwarded all the comments to the National Bank legal department the other day. I'll let them deal with the slander. (Is this Ken?)
Slander? Let me guess leftdog, you're not a lawyer, but you play one on blog sites...
Are you familiar with Canadian slander laws? Please tells us what constitutes slander on this particular message board...
This keeps on getting weirder and weirder...
My goodness... I've gone from feeling contempt to pure pity...
As I said, hilarious... And no, it's not Ken...
No .. not a lawyer that is why I refer to them as required. Just thought there was a chance that you might have been an acquaintence from long ago and far away. No problem. Hope you are well otherwise. Great little topic here. The big expose your buddy did the other day about the 'outstanding pension liability of $4b' is totally laughable because that has been an issue between the Auditor and the Thatcher Gov't - the Devine Gov't - and all gov'ts since then. Also, as I said the big 'scandal' about the Fiscal Stablaization' fund is also laughable because any idiot who uses an abacus can understand the concept of line of credit - offsets of old (higher interest) debt. Mclean has screamed until he was red in the face and the major news outlets CTV - CBC - Star Phoenix - Leader Post - all just laugh at his analysis. It is a 'scandal' only in his mind and that of the extreme right wing - present company included, obviously.
Yes I understand line of credit, it is a liability, not an asset, and is only accounted for when it is used, and then as debt. The actual credit line is not an asset. In fact, it can be used as a potential liability when applying for a loan, meaning it is a negative factor. It is not GAAP to use a potential liability as an asset to artificially create a surplus. This is easily learned by taking Introductory Accounting!!