Fox News Journalists "Converted To Islam"

Here are todays praying times for Islam's latest converts. I'm sure they are just as easily converted into "Miller Times"
Fajer 04:00
Shoroq 05:22
Thohar 11:50
Aser 15:24
Magrib 18:16
Esha 19:36

Is that Makkah time?

No, Kuwait
Makkah times
Day Fajr Dhuhr Asr Maghrib Isha
Sun 4:43 12:23 3:47 6:42 8:12

The capital L Liberal-minded worldwide will be so pleased, and will continue to insist that the Americans and Israeli's are the "religious freaks" in this picture. For example: h2tp://3w.reconstitution.us/seren/archives/1487-In-Jesusistan,-a-stoning-on-every-Main-Street.html.

No one knows how they'd react when in the same situation, so it's hard to blame the journalists. But I wonder what sort of message such "conversions" give to Jihadists about the character of Westerners; I seriously doubt that a captured Islamist has ever repudiated Allah after a week in captivity.

I hope the video of these two men declaring their rejection and condemnation of Islam is flashed around the world in short order. They do work for Fox so one can hold out hope that it happens. It is good that they are safe now but it will be interesting to see how this affects reportage of events in the Gaza. Now that the kidnappings in this area have taken on such overt religious tones I wonder how many journalist will want to (literally) risk their necks just to spin a story.

Bets are that the previously unknown organization that kidnapped the two journalists are very well known indeed.

"Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said he hopes that "the matter of the two kidnapped foreign journalists will be resolved within hours and that they will be released."

Haniyeh said that those behind the abduction pledged before the Palestinian government not to harm the captives, and added that he was receiving updates from the interior minister on the matter."

The conversion to Islam is irrelevant; you can't accept a forced conversion as a choice.

More important, in my view, is the unstated examination of exactly how their release was 'negotiated'.

I'm claiming that more and more terrorist groups are turning to hostage taking as a means of raising money. The money is not for promoting their ideology but is the income for the members of the group. This happened in C. America when the Soviet Union stopped funding the terrorist groups and they turned to drugs and kidnappings to use to raise money - this revealed that they were not operating around an ideology, but their actions were only a particular (criminal)economic mode.

How much money did Fox pay for the release of these journalists?

Ja... der kiddnapking ist ein olt drick, ja. Goes way back to Adam's days. The serpent kidnapped A & E. (H/T Genesis). ...-

Powell's Books - Contributions to the Study of World History #100 ...
Following the Second World War, West Berlin residents found themselves as prime targets for kidnapping by communist agents. Lurid press accounts of these ...
www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0313323615 - 39k -

"How much money did Fox pay for the release of these journalists?"

If they did pay a ransom, not how much, but to who?

Fact Sheet
Office of Counterterrorism
Washington, DC
October 11, 2005
"It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’"

And it matters not that they are a "new movement" for in their demands they wanted the release of prisoners which automatically brings the definition of terrorist into play.
"(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained."

But of course since I do not know if a ransom was paid, this is only speculation on my part.
And it is duly noted and has always been known to "one of the other greg's" that conversions at gunpoint are not accepted as legitimate.

...ooooommm...oooooommmm...ooooommmmmm....

Jill Carroll: Reciting Koranic Verses

Kidnapped American Reporter Recalls The Pressure To Convert To Islam

Excerpt:

Part of Um Ali's growing hardness toward me came as I tried to let her know that, despite the many hours of reciting the Koran with her, I didn't plan to convert to Islam.

In the beginning I was an eager student, as I saw how much it pleased them whenever I showed an interest in learning. But I soon realized I had made a dangerous mistake.

The more I let my captors teach me, the more they expected me to convert. After a few weeks, the question was always, "Why haven't you come to Islam yet?"

I tried to put the brakes on delicately, afraid of what they might do if they thought I was rejecting Islam. How could I tell them that adopting a new religion and code for living wasn't possible when I was held captive, racked with despair, and in fear daily for my life?

One afternoon, when I was exhausted from listening to Um Ali repeat verses of the Koran over and over so I could memorize them, I said, "I don't understand the Arabic in the Koran, and so I can't understand what it really means."

"We'll bring you an English Koran," said Abu Ali, who had overheard me. "You want this?"

They were always insisting that they didn't want to pressure me into converting, while at the same time asking me why I hadn't converted yet.

"Oh, sure," I said.

Abu Ali whipped out his cell phone, and made a call. "You have a Koran in English?" he said. "Quickly, quickly, bring it."

He sounded almost frantic as he gave the person on the other end of the line directions about where to meet him.

After about 20 minutes he returned, bearing a small, green Koran. Emblazoned in gold on the cover was "Le Qur'an." It was a French translation — not an English one.

Later, I tried telling Um Ali, gently, that I probably wasn't going to convert after all.

She said she would be angry if I didn't convert, given the time she had spent teaching me.

"We are afraid for you and don't want you to go to hell," she said. "We are afraid that we'll see you [on Judgment Day] and you'll say, 'Why didn't you save me?'" ...-
http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13387.14

No suprise here.
Proves to us further that the Muslim philosophy is "convert or be killed"

'conversion' at gunpoint.

wonder how ol' allah views this recruitment tactic re how it puts moe-ham-mad's whole thing in a bad light.

supports my theory that islam is following a pattern set by xianity:

1400 years after xianity started, it was nothing more than a power base to subjugate the people. lots of forced conversions in the protestant-catholic wars in england and france.

wars and coups conducted in the name of religion. spreading over the globe to 'convert' the locals. just before hauling them off as slaves.

likewise islam right now, roughly the same time lapse as with xianity.

must be a lie, the religion of peace would never need guns or use violence to achieve its ends.

I think maybe you have dismissed this forced and filmed conversion too quickly ET.

I like to imagine myself refusing to forsake my religion while being tortured or coerced but I know that would most likely not be the case.

I think that maybe for Islamist terrorists this video will become a favorite piece of propaganda used to show that infidels are people who have no real faith.

as far as publicly 'confessing' or spilling the beans in any way, my policy would be that any captive, civilian or military or these new 'in-limbo' types still incarcerated without charge, are free to confess to a great multitude of offenses, convert to any pol view, religion, etc etc. confess confess confess. yep I did it. yep, my country is the great satan. yep islam is the religion of peace. yep yep yep.

the end result of course is these 'confessions' have lost all credibility and the information extracted is USELESS to the captors.

hey, 'yellow'snow bunnie, Im still waiting for a response on your outright lies proven here:

your posting:
As befits most folks who simply refuse to actually understand the English language.
RobertJ: NO death threat, just a fervent wish that you be first in line to GET what is going on in this world. FAR from a death threat, unless one is so consumed by their own point of view they would PREFER it to coming to some understanding .
Posted by: Snowbunnie at August 26, 2006 02:57 AM

and mine follows, emphasising the exact WORD "wish":
hey 'yellow'snow bunnie, READ ie,R-E-A-D my response, specifically a single key word:
"wish"
you made a death "wish" against me or have you forgotten so soon?
I did not accuse you of "threat" as YOU attempt to mangle the TRUTH. its all here for all to see!!
"wish" vs "threat" BIG difference but not enough for you pathetic extreme rightwingers to resist your continued lying and mud slinging.
and it is openly and clearly obvious to all but your ilk that YOU are the one who doesnt understand basic english.
I win !!!
Posted by: RobertJ at August 26, 2006 01:45 PM

so ms yellow-snow bunnie, what do you have to say about your mangling of the TRUTH???? hmmm??? have you joined the ranks of the vile leftists marked by their truth squashing tactics????

awwww, cats got yer tongue!!! no scripted comeback eh???

Their 'conversion' to becoming death cult members is meaningless. The savages demand they say a bunch of gibberish and then pretend they have converts to a real religion - that's quite ridiculous, not even the savages themselves believe that.

They were released because Hamas promised to spare the lives of the kidnappers if the reporters were released unharmed.

Hamas, Hezbollah and all the other savages like them work closely with western media productions - these amateur kidnappers were stupid enough to believe the media productions are somehow real and so they thought they would get in on the action, a mistake that could easily cost these kidnappers their lives.

If conditions of release are that you say, there is no gog but god and allah is his messanger, and if you dont you die....

Once again who does it say more about the captive or the captor?

Islam is like the Hotel California, you can check in, but, you can never check out.

Here's a story of the ongoing legal saga of a Malaysian woman who "has asked the Federal Court, the country's highest civil judicial authority, to acknowledge her decision to convert to Christianity and is now awaiting a verdict."

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060813/wl_nm/religion_malaysia_dc

And, without irony or chagrin, at the bottom of the article is this near perfect definition of fascism by one of the Death Cult's scholars:

"If Islam were to grant permission for Muslims to change religion at will, it would imply it has no dignity, no self-esteem," said Wan Azhar Wan Ahmad, senior fellow at Malaysia's Institute of Islamic Understanding.

"And people may then question its completeness, truthfulness and perfection."

It amazes me that there are idiots still standing that still don't get this. Islam is fascism. Islamofascism. What's to not get about this?

Evidence that Islam is more about "outward show" as opposed to the Christian emphasis on "inward change". What possible satisfaction could the captors take in a conversion accomplished at gunpoint, if not for "outward show" towards their constituents? Imagine the howl from the Islamic world if Muslims had been captured and forced to embrace either Judaism or Christianity at the point of a gun. The Western reaction will be muted, because, frrankly, we have come to expect this sort of behaviour from Muslims.

Richard,

Yup....dog bites man story at this stage....muslim extremist engage in violent behaviour...ho hum....what is new.

And yes I can only imagine the outward rage of the "arab street" if this happened. Makes the outrage over the cartoons seem even sillier now.

RobertJ said "supports my theory that islam is following a pattern set by xianity: 1400 years after xianity started, it was nothing more than a power base to subjugate the people. lots of forced conversions in the protestant-catholic wars in england and france. wars and coups conducted in the name of religion. spreading over the globe to 'convert' the locals. just before hauling them off as slaves. likewise islam right now, roughly the same time lapse as with xianity."

There is a difference, Robert. Christians in the middle ages couldn't read to know the Bible did not condone political conquests. The Chinese invented the printing press. More books were printed and circulated. People started translating the Bible into native languages. The people learned to read, and found out that Jesus didn't say anything about forced conversion. They figured out these were political conquests. Martin Luther nailed a note to a cathedral door, and then Christians were free to be disabused of such notions.

The Islamic throat-slitters can read and carry out instructions of the Koran.

I am just thankful they were released and they are healthy. I don't care what they had to do to get out of that situation. These men knew the American government would not negotiate, and rightly so, so their safe release was in their own hands. They accomplished that. Thank God.

Unlike the God of Islam, if these belong to virtually any other religion, God will know and forgive. Some way we all worship the same God. Not true. Too bad Muslims don't worship a loving and forgiving God.

Al-Reuters now in collusion with "Witnesses"; Jehovah's Witnesses or allah's witnesses? ...-

Witnesses: Israel Strikes Reuters Car
ABC News International ^ | Aug 26, 2006 | Staff

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Aug 26, 2006 (AP)— Two missiles fired by Israeli aircraft early Sunday morning hit an armored car belonging to the Reuters news agency, moderately wounding two television cameramen and three bystanders, Palestinian witnesses and hospital officials said.

The Israeli army said it was checking the report.

According to witnesses, a Reuters cameraman and a freelance cameraman working for an Arabic network were standing outside the vehicle in the Shajaiyeh neighborhood of Gaza filming a nearby Israeli raid when the missiles hit the car.

The white sports utility vehicle was emblazoned with the Reuters logo and had "TV" written on it in English, Arabic and Hebrew, witnesses said.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691002/posts

Comments include "Do I Give A Damn Meter"...LOL...

'conversion' at gunpoint.

wonder how ol' allah views this recruitment tactic...

RobertJ, what part of Mohammed's biography and the spread of Islam do you not get? Are you being factious or just plain village idiot stupid? You haven't noticed that only Islam has failed to morph into a tolerant secular religion.

Dredging up the Christianity of 1400 years ago is rather futile, isn't it, when the Islam of 1400 years ago is the same as today.

Got any commentary on the Malaysian woman's situation? Or, with that one is my point too well takien?

Simply put, you are an idiot.

But... but... Islam is a "religion of peace"!

(Sheer coincidence that almost all terrorists on the whole planet are Muslims. /sarc)

After the Beslan atrocity, in which Islamofascist terrorists machine-gunned schoolchildren ... and there was no stir of outrage from the Muslim world, my viewpoint was confirmed.

Folks might find very thought-provoking the column "When Muslims Kill Muslims" by Salim Mansur in the Saturday Toronto Sun.

The URL is http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Mansur_Salim/2006/08/26/1777155.html

An excerpt: "In the marketplace of ideas, the Arab-Muslim world is presently a relatively barren region. Thinking is a perilous venture where dictators, demagogues and mob passion rule.

But when it comes to maiming and killing, the Arab-Muslim world holds a place of prominence."

of course there are differences tommy boy. otherwise the hindus are right and we're in real trouble.

I am pointing out the similarities: the xian power boys in the mid. ages could read and then told the unwashed masses (pun in tended) the juicy parts. all the guilt trip stuff about burning in hell if you didnt fork over every last surplus scrap of your produce to benefit the church.

muslims today read the koran voraciously. wymyn in iran ONLY read the koran. and the imams cherry pick the parts about martyrdom etc etc. much the same trick the xians bosses did at roughly the same time since the starting point of THEIR religion, ie, 1400 yrs into it.

in other words dear penny, at that time xianity had NOT morphed into the tolerant secular faith you promote and defend. it was precisely where islam is today at the same age.

did you get that point?

and while I have your attention, care to expalin the position of xians that the ONLY way to redemption is via belief in Christ??? whut about all theose millions of asiatics before marco polo who were incapable of learning a single molecule of the biblical story, and likewise the 50,000,000 +/- natives in n america prior to mr columbus??? they're all doomed to hellfire damnation because of the geographic location and date of birth???

I find it MOST intolerant of these oh-so-self assured 'xians' to follow THAT line of thinking. and none of them have ever given an explanation short of some obscure passage to do with an ethiopian eunich. really!!

how *does* this square with your view of xian 'tolerance'??? this is not a rhetorical question.

or maybe, how much were they paid for their capture and subsequent release?

". . . I seriously doubt that a captured Islamist has ever repudiated Allah after a week in captivity."

And who has ever asked them to? Let alone while threatening to whack their heads off with a sword if they don't.

RobertJ - just read your response. Gosh, it looks like a raving lunatic has hijacked your keyboard. What a bummer. If, and when you can free yourself, perhaps you can answer my question...."Got any commentary on the Malaysian woman's situation?"

My sympathies.

you guys think israel will ever release the 25% of Palestinian MPs that they've kidnapped?

--i doubt it

http://www.globalresearch.ca

"I find it MOST intolerant of these oh-so-self assured 'xians'... Posted by: RobertJ

Robert, odd how you find someone who peacefully disagrees with you "MOST intolerant". I find throat slitters, people planting bombs on soccerfields and blowing themselves and others up shopping at market " MOST intolerant".

Guess we have a different idea of what "intolerant" means.

jacobin - nice lefty site, each headline was more voracious in its anti-US and Israel bias. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Oh, and, do you think that Hezbollah will ever release the two Israeli soldiers that they crossed the border into Israel to kidnap? Think Hamas will ever get its founding father, Arafat's, billions out of his Swiss bank accounts?

I wish those intending to convert to Islam would understand that there is a misprint involved. It is not 72 virgins, but a 72 year old virgin.

some muslims reassured us last year that it was 72 raisins not 72 virgins.

can you imagine killing yourself for a halloween size box of sun-maids. one of those ittybitty ones from 40 years ago.

Robert, cut the crap or you're out of here.

ah hell kate let him/her stick around just for the hell of it. we are intelligent people...I love to hear idiot savants rant

What I would like to know is why was so much of the "conversion video" in English? Who was their target audience? There's not a single person in the western world who could watch that and think it was a sincere conversion for either of them. Likely it seems forced in the Arabic as well.

Quote: I seriously doubt that a captured Islamist has ever repudiated Allah after a week in captivity. Unquote.

I seriously doubt that a captured islamist ever faces consequences that those two reporters or any captive of the islamists faces.

In their situation I would have pretended to convert too.

The problem for these two poor saps will be how they handle their conversion after their release.

Renouncing their "conversion" will only make it worse for them in Muslim eyes; their journalist days abroad are over - unless it's to Canada or New Zealand to cover dog shows...

Islamic Conversion

From: Brother Abdul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLQRAPHrHvI

robertj: how *does* this square with your view of xian 'tolerance'?

There are actually many nuanced approaches to the question of the salvation of those who cannot profess faith in Christ because they never had the opportunity.

Catholic Christianity (which is the faith you seem to be attacking from partial exposure to it) holds that with regard to those "righteous" who die before accepting Christ or without an opportunity to hear the Good News and decide, will indeed have an opportunity to respond under God’s mercy.

This is variously worked out in Christian theology and theodicy (the problem of evil and the goodness of God). Traditionally, Christ's descent into hell (Apostles' Creed) has long been seen as related to the "harrowing of hell" i.e. the claiming of those who even in Sheol or Hades respond to the Prince of Peace and reject the Prince of Darkness.

Origen and other Christians down the centuries have written of the possibility that all may be somehow finally saved in the mercy of God.

More on the left wing of Christian theology I note that the current pope, Benedict XVI, quotes favourably the theology of Teilhard de Chardin (French Jesuit palaeontologist) in his recent encyclical on Love. Teilhard's "Cosmic Christ" is referred to in relation to the question of the salvation of humanity, conversion and interfaith dialogue.

The vast majority of professed Christians through two millennia have understood that the issue of conversion is a matter of the heart and conscience -- not the end of a sword.
This has not been true for most of the Muslim world most of the time.

To focus on the aberrations in Christian history and the political misuses of faith centuries ago in comparison with the unchanging and uncompromising stance of Islam is drawing a moral equivalency which is simply not supported by the facts.

Western tolerance, democracy and the scientific worldview all grew from within Christian societies.

The evidence of similar principles growing from within Islamic societies, without Western influence, is simply not visible despite some early advances in science and social tolerance which were made in Islamic states e.g. Spain before AD 1500.

The possibility of an open society and independent thought (not to mention any freedom for women) were firmly quashed in the Islamic World long before the emergence of nineteenth century Islamism, which not only denies the possibility of a secular state, but supports the forcible submission of every human being.

um Ignat:

middle ages xians were burning 10s of thousands of women at the stake on trumped up charges of witchcraft.

tolerant?

catholics may have worked out the solution to the dilemma faced by the majority of all humans who have ever been born, but I dont have to look very far here in RobertJville to find xian denominations who firmly and completely maintain salvation is ONLY possible via accepting Christ. many in this crowd refuse to so much as acknowledge the question of 'what about the unenlightened' let alone answer it. theyre too full of themselves, so sure they are 'the select'.

furthermore, it is not a perfect comparison; I never said it was, so you are arguing against a position I never took.

but regardless of where islam has 'been' or where xianity 'is', there are marked similarities at the 1400 year mark.

sunni vs shiite; what ho, protestants slaughtering catholics and vice versa for centuries. some 'aberration'. see what I mean?

you people keep comparing xian faith *today* with muslim faith *today*

I never did that, I am successfully pointing out similarities of each faith at their 1400 year mark. viscious murderous repression in the name of God/Allah/Whoever and a bent to convert the unconverted. or have none of you read up on the missionaries that followed hot on the heels of the early n. american explorers?

tell ya what penny, you get ms snow bunnie to answer to her lies about me claiming a death "threat" was levelled at me by her, I didnt, vs me claiming a death "wish" was levelled at me by her, which it was. then I'll answer your question about the malaysians.

Kaaaaate!! oh Kaaaaaate! if you think I'm dealing in crap, tell ya what, get a copy of the baptist articles of faith where it says redemption is only possible thru belief in the resurrection. (hint: to have that belief and faith ya gotta know the story of how and when it happened.) any bibles in the high arctic in the year 1000? equitorial africa in 500 a.d? inner mongolia in 1500? that ma'am is the crux of my point.

the uncompromising unyielding and unreasonable stand of this huge denomination is doing *right now* is the evidence I offer. kinda like the uncompromising etc stuff the muslims are doing *right now* with the additional aspect of plastique explosives.

xianity set the precedent 700 years ago. xians need to temper their current outrage. as far as 'dredging up' anything well thats because the identical 1400 year time span that islam has existed..... puts us at the year 1400 on the xian calendar. sorry I cant tell you where islam is going to be 2000 years (the year 2700) after it was founded or I would gladly do that comparison instead.

chew on that fer awhile ya swabs. ahar!!!

RobertJ, if you don't agree with the doctrine of some Christian sects, then don't become a Christian. It's not like they're threatening you to convert or die, or in any way infringing on your own beliefs (if you have any). Free will and that, bro.

I fail to understand the relevance of your "point". Before Christians could read, leaders used the religion as a political tool. How is that relevant in today's world? Why limit your historical retroscope exclusively to Christianity?

Anyone who has to dig 500 years deep to prop up their distorted world view, is pissing in the wind. If you want to live in a world governed by Middle Agers, move to Iran. Free will is a beautiful thing.

Tens of thousands of women were burned as witches...????????????????????????????????

Again robertj makes wild unfounded statements. Fundamentalists, even if a majority in robertjville, represent a distinct minority of Christians. Over 80% of Christians are RC (1 billion alone), Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran or one of the other major communions. Even the Baptists, as was pointed out by tom penn, are not about to put robertj's head on the sign leading into your town... though it sounds as though he is losing it on his own.

For facts we might start with: The Real Inquisition: Investigating the popular myth.
by Thomas F. Madden. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/madden200406181026.asp

This article reviews recent scholarship on the subject which finds that in most European countries deaths of those considered traitorous due to their refusal to share the common faith of their monarch and nation were counted in the hundreds not “tens of thousands”. As well, these were executions by the state not by the Inquisition.

As Madden puts it:
“Despite popular myth, the Inquisition did not burn heretics. It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church. The simple fact is that the medieval Inquisition saved uncounted thousands of innocent (and even not-so-innocent) people who would otherwise have been roasted by secular lords or mob rule.”

Some recent books on the subject are Edward Peters's Inquisition (1988) and Henry Kamen's The Spanish Inquisition (1997).

The other point is that it is now after noon and it seems Robert is either missing his meds or has had too much . . . he seems to think he is turning into a pirate “swabs… ahrr”.

On that point alone he may be correct. But, thanks to Christian civilization and hospitals (most of which in North America were founded by Christians) robert can be treated rather than having some part of his anatomy severed as prescribed by Sharia Law for apostasy, atheism or insane actions.

bingo tommie!! gotcha!!

"Before Christians could read, leaders used the religion as a political tool. How is that relevant in today's world? "

xians did it then.
muslims doing it now.
1400 year time lapse in both cases.
ta da !!

middle ages RCs and protestants at each others 'throats'. 1400 years after establishment of the religion.
today sunnis and shiites at each others throats. same 1400 time lapse since the founding of that religion.
ta da!

seems i've uncovered some (n.b. SOME) similarities here. but of course, right wingers have to have it all 'just so' and variations in historical events dare not exist or ya gotta throw out all mention of any similarities. (that must be why right wingers never learn the lessons of history; theyre waiting for the exact same circumstances to create the exact same outcome so they can micromanage to their hearts content)

baptists are in the minority.
and there's lots of them!!!
according to *their* articles of faith, the pearly gates are only traversable after claiming redemption from Christ's shed blood.
the question stands, how do ANY xians sharing this view explain away the doom this spells for all those 'condemned unenlightened' throughout the globe throughout the 1st millenium and half the 2nd?
not even *they* have provided an answer save some scripture reference about an ethiopian eunich racing around on a chariot.

why does one *have* to join a christian 'sect' to be a believer? "says who?" there tommie.

aaaaand ignat still with the republicanist ultra right wing personal attacks. looks like I'm still winning when the folks on t'other side of the debate have to resort to that tactic from the middle ages.

heh heh heh.

RobertJ: heh heh heh.

I notice you didn't take up the challenge to look at the facts about your enormous witch burning fantasy. There's no lie like and old lie.

The left still seems to think that by repeating these whoppers often enough people will believe their anti-Christian myths.

Anyway it's bed time RobertJ -- take your meds and dream on. Hope there are no nightmares of scary Baptists and medieval Christians.

However, the problem for those who persist in dreams of moral equivalency is that you may wake up one day with the living nightmare of an Isalmist victory. Even you would yearn for your old Baptist neighbours then and have kindly thoughts for the Holy Office.

Warmed over scare stories about "tens of thousands of witches" won't do much good then, though. Nor do I imagine many will thank you leftists -- the surrender of useful idiots.

I can see them lining up now and can't hear any more "he he hes" when the command comes: Repeat or die: THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MOHAMMED IS HIS ....

Good lord, this is like talking to a toddler. 1400 years -- SO WHAT? What relevance could that possibly have in todays world? Did the Chinese invent the printing press 600 years later in RobertJville or Muslimville? Robert, your point is beyond irrelevant.

MY point is that Muslims have learned to read the Koran on their own. THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE DOING WHAT IT TELLS THEM TO DO.

tada!!

RobertJ - and your point? Reviewing Christianity of a thousand years ago again and again? Duh. Your point?

If my great great grandfather was a arsonist, what's that got to do with me and the here and now?

You're so stuck on stupid.

"heh heh heh." Stick a fork in it, already.