And the reason Tony Blair’s Labour Party needs to go;
Mr Ternouth’s thriller flooded back to me this week when I read of the Government’s plan to spend £224million of your money and mine on setting up a database, recording details of the lives of all 12 million children in England and Wales.
Among other things, the Children’s Index will record whether a child’s parents are providing a ‘positive role model’, how the child is performing at school — and even whether youngsters are eating the daily five portions of fruit and vegetables recommended by the Government.
Presumably, children will be questioned at school each morning on what their parents fed them the night before.
The database, we are told, will be made available to social workers, teachers and doctors, who will have the power to flag up ‘concerns’ when they think that children are not meeting the criteria laid down by the state.
A special article for those who are dismissive of those of us who warn about the caring totalitarianism that creeping into our lives in the guise of the benignly misnamed “Nanny State”.
Frightening. Remember the screw-up at Martensville? And just when I was beginning to think TB was not too bad for a socialist.
Thanks Kate…you could have put up a disclaimer,you know…usually,I try to avoid horror stories just before bedtime.
typically, the case of the young girl cited, Victoria Climbie, is the thin edge of the wedge the state needs to shove this orwellian stuff through.
by the way, who exactly is ‘the state’? what is it populated by? people? run of the mill humans? so what is the logic that say ‘the state’ loaded heavily with overworked uninvolved humans is going to do a BETTER job than friends and relatives at the very least, on average???? hmmmm?
no, this is just the excuse they are looking for. its a variation on rock’s gun legislation that oozed out of parliament post Vivi Lemonis just desserts shooting, or the kidnapping murder in californicate that resulted in colossally wasteful and expensive 3 strikes jean-valjean-les-miserable-revisited where some have wound up with 20 year sentences for, wait for it, shoplifting.
de law i’ de law i’ de law.
Holy shmoly! This is TRERRIFYING! Do they even have ANY criteria at all for what constitutes a ‘positive rolemodel’?? Or is it just whatever a socialist thinks is preferable.
(And hey, what about dentists? Of all people in all places, shouldn’t the Brits focus on getting their kids to the tooth doctors?) ;0)
“Canada can be, and should be, a world leader in early childhood development and care. For eighteen months the Liberal Party of Canada was dedicated to a great national endeavour that truly mattered, a national system of early learning and child care. Now it is gone. It represented a chance for more kids to learn at a young age, so they could learn better when they entered kindergarten, grade 4, grade 10, university, their jobs, throughout their lives. Because if kids fall behind early, they rarely catch up.”
http://www.kendryden.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=56&lang=en
I have been living in Britain for the last 2 years.
Britain has large social problems, the young people are totally out of control with this so called ‘yob’ culture.
Roving bands of kids beating up other kids and recording it on the cell phones is something that was invented here in Britain.
The problem is not that parents aren’t providing decent role models, the problem is that neither state nor parent are providing any discipline.
It was quite shocking to see how much worse it is here then in Canada
My guess is that this data base attempt will dissolve into irrelevance. You can’t gather some of this data, such as a ‘positive role model’ scientifically. It would be interesting to see the court challenges.
And you can’t enforce it within a democratic state with rights. You can only enforce it within totalitarianism – such as found within a communist or fascist regime.
Brainwashing? Well, as we’ve seen in Canada, that works very well, but, only for a proportion of the population.
So, my view is that such sweeping statism will become a huge bureaucratic monolith, totally divorced from reality and unenforceable. Rather like our Dept of Indian Affairs.
Socialism. It never really changes.
Sice Blair is a product of the MI5 intel bureaucracy, he has let his buddies in the security bureaucracy carte blanche in escallating the police state. London resembles an armed camp with police toting MP5s and over 10,000 police cameras tracking civilians in public places….legislation was proposed to start RFID tagging and the UK internet is about as private as the monitored phone conversations.
Ya Give Blair the boot and get a real conservative back in the saddle who doesn’t cower and expand martial law everytime a bang is heard and adheres to constitutional behaviour.
When Churchill was in charge the UK was at war and under imminet threat of invasion but MI5 didn’t make the island an armed camp under martial law.
The similarities to the Liberal daycare plan are frightening. The government in charge of our children–how Orwellian. The Liberals would have had a large database on all children using the Liberal daycare–their spin was just more devious than Blair’s. Both end up with the same control of our children.
From england where big brother watches over your kids and send crime victims to jail and allows the crinimals to run free maybe its time for england to bring back the hooded headsman with his axe block and basket and start releaving a few of those young thugs of the heads as the QUEEN OF HEARTS would say OFF WITH THEIR HEADS
Kinda reminds me of all the signs at a park entrance in Italy. I have never seen so many signs telling you what you can’t do, no everything you can imagine, and absolutely no one pays any attention at all, they do exactly as they please. OOh to have had a picture of two Policemen sitting on a park bench having a smoke, directly under a no smoking sign watching kids kick a soccer ball around in an area where that was also not allowed.
For the general population any law or government exercise is relevant only if it is in particularly relevant to a little common sense. Simple servant burecrats seem to be the same the world over, all wanting to be something they never will be, relevant or respected.
The issue, in my experience, is that British youth culture has approached the “Lord of the Flies” level. Parts of the population have simply gone feral. What is to be done?
Given the extremely large amount of evidence that has recently surfaced verifying that the US and other nations have extensive spying operations against their own citizens, when can I and other critics of the Bush Administration expect an apology and an admission of wrongdoing for the years of “tinfoil hat” accusations that have been leveled against us when we stood up for freedom?
This UK stuff is Mickey Mouse compared to Echelon and the rest of SIGINT activities. Secret prisons, extraordianry rendition, torture…precisely how much more totalitarian does the Bush Administration have to get before the last of their brainwashed – brainwashed – supporters stand up for freedom and dump this chump of a president?
If you’re one of the 101st Keyboardists who has gotten cheap thrills by making “tinfoil hat” acusations against those who would stand up for liberty, you suck.
“The issue, in my experience, is that British youth culture has approached the “Lord of the Flies” level. Parts of the population have simply gone feral”
But…I thought our society was so much better than the Muslims? Maybe we should get our own houses in order before we start invading other countries and implementing our socialist/feminist/gaygaygay agenda…
Woo hoo!
We only had to deal with a gun registry originally budgeted at (2 million?)
Now a children’s registry starting at 224 million lbs.
Hey, anybody know where citizen Chretien has taken his franchise?
I tell people about Echelon and they think Im some conspiracy monger. so I calmly enquire if they have access to the internet and if so look it up.
the fun part is when I tell them that their internet database lookup was logged in a supercomputer somewhere in the continental US of A.
everything comes with a cost and it usually isnt just money.
and besides, this spying-on-your-own-citizens is really old hat.
j edgar hoover the fbi pansyman did it for most of his tenure. which is why he lasted so long; if anyone showed up on the radar hinting they were going to knock him off his perch, he would simply have his people hand him the dossiere on that individual who would be shown its contents and advised embarassing ‘leaks’ would happen if they insisted on targetting hoover.
its all there in the record for all to see.
bob, you’ve no idea of the reality of The Public Eye and its intrusive gaze until you’ve lived in a small town. In small towns, everyone knows everything about everyone. Same thing in tribes. That’s the nature of groups.
So, don’t try to tell us that Before Bush, we had privacy. Never.
I’m strongly in favour of Bush. You’re not. Tough.
Tribalism in the ME is the basis of islamic fascism. Do you approve of islamic fascism? Remember, we weren’t the ones who carried out the attacks in New York, London, Madrid, Indonesia, Jordan, etc, etc. So, if you prefer sitting back and doing nothing while your fellow citizens are massacred by fascists – that’s your choice.
We moved into Afghanistan and Iraq to enable democracy to replace fascism. You may dislike democracy but I prefer it to fascism.
bobj- yes, everything comes with a cost. Since we’ve moved into the internet realm of global electronic communication AND the global jihad with its agenda of destruction, we have no choice but to monitor the electronic communication system. Or, we can do as some would prefer – sit back and watch the suicide bombers blow up the population.
Bob: Do you have Google Toolbar? If you do, every single page you visit is recorded by google… your every www. move becomes part of the google “research” project.
I get such a kick out of those who go all wobbly kneed when they hear about communications or internet traffic being monitered by law enforcement. Those same people oppose terrorism, or child porn, or any number of illegal operations, yet they’d take away from authorities the single most effective tool in tracking down any number of criminal activities. Personally, I don’t care if G.W. Bush himself listened to me having an arguement over the phone with my wife… or if he reads a dirty little email to her for kicks… who cares? I have nothing to fear as I’m not plotting terrorism, not plotting a drug sale, not trying to seduce a minor, and not looking for snuff films or kiddy porn.
Any medium that crime functions in becomes a medium that law enforcement “must” track. Bobby, if you can promise me that terrorists and criminals won’t use the internet, international banking, and telephone to plot crime… never mind.
Now, the UK initiative goes way beyond “law” enforcement, and goes into the realm of “social” enforcement and engineering”. I am amazed Bobby, that you can’t tell the difference. That you can’t comprehend the difference between trying to save a child from sexual abuse, and monitoring parents for their moral standing.
Bush derangement syndrome sure has a funny effect on the brain.
Bob: Do you have Google Toolbar? If you do, every single page you visit is recorded by google… your every www. move becomes part of the google research project.
I get such a kick out of those who go all wobbly kneed when they hear about communications or internet traffic being monitered by law enforcement. Those same people oppose terrorism, or child porn, or any number of illegal operations, yet they’d take away from authorities the single most effective tool in tracking down any number of criminal activities. Personally, I don’t care if G.W. Bush himself listened to me having an arguement over the phone with my wife… or if he reads a dirty little email to her for kicks… who cares? I have nothing to fear as I’m not plotting terrorism, not plotting a drug sale, not trying to seduce a minor, and not looking for snuff films or kiddy porn.
Any medium that crime functions in becomes a medium that law enforcement must track. Bobby, if you can promise me that terrorists and criminals won’t use the internet, international banking, and telephone to plot crime… never mind.
Now, the UK initiative goes way beyond law enforcement, and goes into the realm of social enforcement and engineering. I am amazed Bobby, that you can’t tell the difference. That you can’t comprehend the difference between trying to save a child from sexual abuse, and monitoring parents for their moral standing.
Bush derangement syndrome sure has a funny effect on the brain.
Hillary Clinton took a page from the Hoover playbook. Hildabeast had 100 FBI files on political rivals in the White House which she sat on like a poisonous spider.
The database, we are told, will be made available to social workers, teachers and doctors, who will have the power to flag up ‘concerns’ when they think that children are not meeting the criteria laid down by the state.
I can’t think of a more Orwellian scenerio than allowing the wards of the lefty teacher’s unions and government dole social workers monitor a kid’s lunch, whimsical artwork, number of days absent with a cold, attitudes, etc. Of course, the same brain dead lefties that endorse this hideous plan are the one’s that denounce reasonable means to monitor terrorist’s bank accounts.
Red Ant: “…is that British youth culture has approached the “Lord of the Flies” level…”
…more like a presequel to “Clockwork Orange”.
In a police state, lawless youths going around in gangs doing what they want.
Just like what Caledonia was becoming.
Tomax7: What part of the UK did you live in? I lived in south London. There are virtually no police to be seen. Since the Brixton riots of the 80s they’ve been told to look the other way, (for many more minor crimes), to avoid ethnic unrest. Police state?
In “A Clockwork Orange” crime was as least punished and an attempt was made at behaviour modification. At Caledonia the felonies are being rewarded with land handouts thus reinforcing the violent conduct.
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/video/pizza.html
The future is here.
Do you know what they know?
Blair was always a neo-con in socialist clothing. He hijacked a political party and then went about doing his George Bush imitation. He was a fraud from the get-go.
red ant: well with the amount of TV camera’s over there, MI5 and now this child registry…sorta looks like a police state from outside.
Heph…the “behaviour modification” comes afterwards when they get voted in, can’t do their deeds as openly.
tomax7: (2nd try) Where in the UK did you live?
“well with the amount of TV camera’s over there, MI5 and now this child registry…sorta looks like a police state from outside.”
…meaning you haven’t got a clue. Right? That’s fine.
There’s quite a few CCTV cameras in Canada.
What’s your point about MI5? They do the same thing as CSIS. They look for terrorists.
This child registry is crazy, but some of the youth are right out of order and something must be done about it. Britain, contrary to your perception that it is a police state, needs more basic law and order, like NYC used to fix its crime problems.
As for “clockwork orange”, I doubt you even read the book.
ET: the problem with the bushist white house, they conducted the eavesdropping without first acquiring hte proper pre-defined grounds to do so. and on a number of occassions denied they were doing it. then claimed they didnt have to get permission from the usual authorities to do the massive ‘wiretap’. its all too suspicious looking. you simply cant go on ever large fishing expeditions because you might find some bad guys. the bushist are simply using technology to make the net collosal.
at this point, with it out in the open, any suspicious communications are likey wingnuts, wannabes, or very clever distractions by the real bad guys. no way any self respecting jihadist is going on the internet without encrypting and using code phrases known only to the receiving party.
so why the continuing ‘need’ and practice of this eavesdropping? because the bushists need to show theyre doing ‘something’ on this front in the war on terror. plus the orwellian aspect of entrusting the likes of cheney and rumsfeld to be the arbiter of reasonable grounds.
I almost forgot.
ET:
my other MAJOR concern about this intense eavsedropping: whats to stop the confidential information finding its way into the hands of powerful financial interests in exchange for ‘non-partisan (chortle chortle) campaign financincial support yada yada ya’
hmmm????? sinister but plausible.
the cheneyists and bushists with their extensive commercial tentacles, tuck away the contents of flagged communications and then set their underlings on it to see what competitive advantages can be garnered, all the while not disclosing where it came from….
very cynical indeed. has this ever happened before? read up on industrial espionage and the practice of conducting staged meaningless ‘job interviews’ meant only to ferret out insider information.
now its all automated to the advantage of the power system boys.
and you have the gall to support it because youve got ‘nothing to hide bla bla bla’.
ya well give it time and THAT attitude we all with have ‘nothing to hide’ because thats all we’re going to have: NOTHING.
red ant: geeze who pee’d in your cerial today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-circuit_television
Another site:
Debate Brews over London Surveillance Cameras
by Jim Zarroli
All Things Considered, July 11, 2005 · London is filled with security cameras; they’re practically on every corner.
No I don’t live in Britian. So that doesn’t give me the right to make an observation from outside the forest, but you’re the expert, right?
As for reading the CO book, no. So guess not an expert there either right? But I’m sure you’re a major source of inspiration for “Eyes Wide Shut”, another of Kubrick’s films, not books.
*sigh*
CCTV:
London ~400,000
New York ~3,000
Population:
London : 7,465,100
New York: 8,168,338
Canada: ‘quite a few’
red ant…sorry ol’ chap, I’ve seemed to have missed your point about “There’s quite a few CCTV cameras in Canada”
London, New York = cities, Canada = Country…
Something about comparing Apples and Oranges – Clockwork Oranges that is.
Pity.