With post titles like “11 reasons why working mothers can’t stand housewives”, you just know you’re onto something special. Let’s just say she has “issues”.
(As an aside – what is it about those who skulk about on the toxic fringes of the leftosphere that they are so loathe to reveal their identities?)
(As an aside – what is it about those who skulk about on the toxic fringes of the rightosphere that they are so loathe to reveal their identities?)
You mean the Canadian Sentinel?
“4. Specifically, they imply that they love their children more.”
Well, if she means “love” as a noun, I would never presume she loves (noun) her children more or less than I, a proud stay-at-home mom. I cannot look into her heart after all.
If she means “love” as a verb, however, I can easily say that I love my children more: I am with them thoughout each and every day and, therefore, have more opportunities to love (verb) them.
Re: your aside…
Whether left or right, keeping an identity anonymous helps keep disagreements centered on the issues. With identities revealed, opponents often resort to petty ad hominem character attacks. I am a staunch supporter of this blog, but this is the type of post that the blogosphere needs less of–no actual rebuttal based on arguments, just a sly implication that the blogger opposite is foolish.
Actually, anonymity does wacky things to people’s behaviour. Ask any substitute teacher.
As for the article I found this one ironic:
10. They talk about how horrible day care is, but they don’t know anything about it.
What never ceases to amaze me is how parents are so willing to believe that what they see is how it is. Regardless of the calibre of worker, there are unavoidable realities to en-mass child care. Sometimes the end justifies the means, but sometimes it doesn’t. Either way, those unavoidable realities are almost never revealed in the 5 or 10 minutes it takes to pick a kid up at the beginning & end of the day. Good or bad, the only ones who know anything about it are the day care workers and the kids. It’s naive to think otherwise.
Well some of the most tramatic experiences of my life have come from daycare. I refuse to put my kids in daycare, not becaseu I know nothing, but because I know too much. If people actually knew some of the things that happen they would never bring their kid back!
Bikini briefs? I thought bikers wore boxers.
Look, fights between stay-at-homes and outside-the-homes are just so… radical feminist and outre. BOTH kinds of moms have their particular reasons for doing what they do and encamping on opposite sides doesn’t help anyone.
Having said that, I don’t regret for a nano-second having stayed home for 20 years with my two daughters (while having a small daycare in my home, picking apples in a local orchard while my kids were in school, and editing at home).
I wasn’t bored, or boring (!), a minute of the time and was always amazed when people, usually other women, would ask me, “How can you stay home with your kids? I’d be bored out of my mind if I stayed home with mine.” As I always said to my daughters when they told me they were bored, “There’s no such word in this family. If you’re bored, you have no one but yourself to blame. Find something to do!”
By grade three, my second daughter still couldn’t read and the school was telling my husband and me that “all she needed was a ‘safe place’ in which to learn.” Come again? Presumably the school was a safe place and our home wasn’t? They insisted that “she’d be fine,” as she continued to slip through the cracks and got minimal attention for her academic deficits.
If I had worked outside the home, my daughter would still be running a deficit and would never have made it to university. She is going into second year in the fall. If I had worked outside the home, I wouldn’t have had the time or the energy to take on the incompetent school “authorities” (sic) who insisted that my daughter just needed a little more time to catch up. Yeah, sure.
If I had worked outside the home, I would not have been able to haul my daughter out of school for three months–a move, I can tell you, that got their attention because it was going to cost them their $$$ grant for her space. We tutored her, others tutored her, we got the truancy officer the school had sicced on us on our side, and our daughter finally got the attention she needed from the resource teacher, etc.
If you’re going to be an advocate for your child in increasingly fractured and incompetent school systems, not to mention our chaotic and child-unfriendly society (have you checked out what they’re watching on TV and the Internet lately?) it sure helps that you’re not having to clock in eight hours a day for the company.
You can’t rewind the tape of your life. Kids grow up so quickly. I loved every minute (well, nearly every minute) of being totally involved in my daughters’ growing up. They wore second hand clothes and I still don’t have the furniture and clothing I’d like, but time with them was worth far more to me and my husband than our “lifestyle of choice.” THEY were our lifestyle of choice.
And guess what? We have a very solid relationship with each of our daughters. Both at university, they keep in touch on a regular basis and involve us in their lives. It’s a two-way street: You invest a lot of time and energy in their lives and they return the favour…just like in any other relationship.
new kid – thanks for your post. I agree completely. Pitching your tent on either side of the debate is useless. There’s no ‘perfect way’.
I learned all I needed to know about daycare from watching the poor little tots at the very highly regarded local daycare march around the neighbourhood with one hand tied into a loop on a rope, like inmates on a chain gang, while a worker shouted “Go! Go! Go!” as they crossed the street on their short little legs, tripping and wailing. Inevitably, there’s a daycare worker or two pulling up the rear holding hands or carrying a child who’s either bawling or is simply too small to be marching the whole route to the park or library.
Then there was the day, not long ago, when one of them, unattended, fell off the jungle gym in the local playground and had to be taken to the hospital strapped to a board with their head in a brace. I was just imagining the parent getting that phone call at work.
So – no daycare for our kids. Thus ends my disquisition on my “uninformed decision.”
I loved Cynthia’s note in the comments section on “eleven reasons why housewives hate working mothers” in response.
At at young age I became a single mother, not by choice but by reality. Someone had to grow up and be responsible for our beautiful daughter. I stayed home (yes I admit it on assistance), but with only one parent, my child needed her mother at home. Same a NewKid, I didn’t have the new clothes or furniture that everyone else had but I had my daughter. Now, she is a successful photographer, with a three year old. This I admit is like a rerun, again, with the busy life style everyone has I am the consistant thing in my grand daughter’s life. Would I change this for a moment? Never. Children are our gift. You must hold every moment close to your heart and appreciate them, they do grow up so fast. There is no greater reward in life than watching a little person grow and develop.
Rick, I see the chain gangs all the time in downtown Calgary’s +15 system. I’ve always wondered why the daycares waste such great opportunities to generate revenue as a courier service – just tie a wagon or cart on the back of the gang and let the kids earn their daycare for a change. Little Ricky would make such a good lead dog.
LOL Ham! Seeing as insitutuional daycare operations are for-profit, what a hilarious suggestion!!
My heart always droops when I see these dear little people herded along on a rope either because they’re in a daycare or a downtown summer camp. Kids are “grownup-particular.” It actually matters to them who takes care of them, and they’re usual choice is one of their parents.
My mom, a single mom, had to work, and I recognize that sometimes this is a choice that has to be made and kids have to be put in substitute care. But I have noticed that since moms have gone into the workforce en masse, kids are struggling more than ever. I see it every day in the elementary classes I teach; kids simply neglected, often benignly, but neglected all the same.
A few hours every night with mom and/or dad, who are often running as fast as they can to deal with getting food on the table, doing laundry, paying bills, getting kids to soccer, baseball, etc., doesn’t really compare with a situation where the ticking of the clock isn’t paramount in the parent/child relationship.
I think that’s what I most appreciated about being a stay-at-home mom: Far less pressure, not being in fast-forward all the time. I think it would have driven me crazy, crazier than I am, at any rate.
Whoops: “THEIR usual choice…”
I’d just like to provide a possible future if the liberal style child care advocates have there way:
I see a future where
– Conservatives will be vilified for trying to implement a US-style two tier daycare system.
– Accusations will abound about horror stories of parents being refused daycare because of inability to pay.
– The talking point “in Canada we use the daycare card, not a credit card” will be default by the lib-left kook fringe
– CUPE will force a nationwide shutdown of the “liberal national daycare system*” when a dispute over being assigned the late shift by maintenance workers occurs.
– The SCOC rules that its a violation of security of person to deny private daycare, still anyone that advocates for private daycare will be labeled anti-Canadian.
Just a preview of coming attractions if a LNDS* ever gets created.
…what’s that high pitched wailing and screeching noise I hear?
Oh, the libl-left feminists feel threatened by a lady with an apron on walking by…
Erg.
erg, meant…’a lady walking by with an apron on’.
Noun, Verb, adjective. I’d say dangling particple, but it’s a she and not a masculine pronoun. It could also be a female athomenoun as pronoun would indicate a work profession, a crucible antonym of this confabulation.
Dang, meds are wearing off…
Canadian Cynic is well named.
Cynicism is a distinguishing trait of the left.
They are cynical about people having any benevolent motives, except for themselves.
They deny the existence of an absolute truth, especially moral truths.
Believing in nothing is a hard full time job so strict government management of our world becomes their soother.
“Skulking” anonymously wouldn’t have something to do with the propensity that you and your fans display for hunting down and posting personal contact information about people you don’t like — Belinda Stronach, non-right-wing reporters, for example — and tacitly encouraging that they be stalked?
Would it?
No, of course not.
Well, that site seems like a rather angry, hate-filled place.
A perfect reflection of the modern left.
Jonathan, I am sorry to disagree with you.
Not knowing who you are debating invites just as many attacks. Maybe more since you don’t need to worry about feelings.
Secondly it is a way of fact-checking knowing who you are talking to. Consider the Butter/Margarine debate. Knowing who paid for the study you can rather simply predict the results. People and ideology are the same.
Lastly it is a matter of principles. Someone who offers their name is by default someone who will take flak for their argument. Hiding behind “anonymous” or other generic identifiers shows cowardice. It shows you are willing to make the statement, but not stand up and defend the statement.
Kate, I don’t know why you would waste the energy taking a jab at these jealous, envious, and unenlightened individuals. Take a look at the overall site and notice how many “comments” they receive, not to mention the quality of the comments they DO receive.
Thier rantings are akin to those of “crazy cat lady” from the Simpsons. Just ignore them.
It is typical of the Lib-left ilk to constantly drone on and berate those that have found prosperity and happiness BY DOING for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them. Remember, those that are successful, prosperous, secure and content were born into that lifestyle (in the minds of the Lib-left) and should be scorned by all the others out there who work soooooo hard; yet can’t seem to to find that balance.
I’m glad Kate posted this hate stay at home moms site, because whether subliminal or overt, this has been an issue for years. In the ’80s I shudder to recall how many times the eyes of the woman I was talking to at a party would glaze over the minute I shared with her, in answer to her question “What do you do?”, “I stay home to care for my children.” This didn’t happen a few times, it happened nearly every time I met a work outside the home mom. As soon as the eyes glazed over, she’d immediately start to look around the room for someone else to talk to.
The radical feminists did a good job of marginalizing stay-at-home moms, as though choice for women in every other field was de rigeur but NOT if you chose to mother full-time. ‘Something to do with letting the side down, with not fulfilling your own potential, with caving to the males in our society, forgetting that from time immemorial, many women have preferred caring for their own children rather than hiring themselves out to do someone else’s work.
Eleven Reasons
Polyandry next: Slippery slope fallacy*.
Polygamy recognized in Canada
Multiple-wife marriages have been legally recognized in Canada to award spousal support and inheritance payments. cnews
*Example: You should never gamble. Once you start gambling you find it hard to stop. Soon you are spending all your money on gambling, and eventually you will turn to crime to support your earnings. (Nag, nag, nag…)
Thanks Kate for picking it up,
This woman has no self esteem and its too bad she is so ignorant in her parenting. She attacks my blog but she gives me a good giggle so I dont’ mind her ignorance makes the case stronger.
Well said, new kid. From what I know, the core value of feminism in the beginning was all about giving women more choice about how they live and work. Apparently, feminism has mutated to accept only the choices of which their activists approve. In short, a dictating matriarchy to replace a dictating patriarchy.
My mother stayed home and looked after us kidlets (my brother and I). By the time I got to kindergarten, she had already given me a good head start for reading and counting among other educational necessities. I shudder to think where I might be now if I hadn’t had that in the first few years of my life.
This is not to say that staying home is the right choice. As with most things in life, YMMV. I just have to roll my eyes when people seem to think staying home with your kids isn’t a valid choice.
I can tell you what it is about those on the lunatic fringe of the left blogosphere: many of them have certain, shall we say, criminal inclinations, which is why they support the left in the first place, and they don’t want to be called on it in “real life” in case their actions catch up to them. Liberal Catnip is one such example (she supports terrorists and their way of thinking, and naturally, she’s afraid of being investigated by the RCMP, but they can trace her through her IP anyway, and I am sure they’re already looking into her drivel that she writes).
NewKid speaks well regarding this issue. Particularly as regards taking on the educational system at times.
I left a very lucrative career to raise my own two children and have never regretted a moment of it. Sometimes, I was totally stay at home, other times over the years I worked at various positions with various companies..always also involved in the community, sports and school activities of our children. My husband was away a lot but we were both on the same page regarding our children and their upbringing and we never pined for the corporate world or othewise wondered why we were doing what we were doing. I have enjoyed the children we brought into this world enormously from the minute they were born and to this day. They grew up and do their father and I proud. He has been gone these last 19 years, but I know he would be so very proud of them. They are good , well rounded responsible individuals who are excellent parents in their own right. They both chose well partners who share their ideals.
I owned and ran a very large daycare that was designed to be a ‘home away from home’ for those little darlings whose parents had no choice.
They loved daycare, their parents never worried when they were in my care. They were relaxed and relieved to be assured that their children’s care was the next best thing to Mom and Dad.
The parents were happy and the children were happy. We had a successful business for over 14 years and for most of those years it was “before and after school” care.
I ran four other businesses during the hours of 8:30 to 2:30. All of them successful and thriving.
Which illustrates this: Mothers can and do make a success and a brilliant success of raising their own children. It is a complete insult to suggest that to undertake to raise one’s own children one is somehow not quite up to standard.
And this: DayCare can and is successful for all parties when it is done right. Institutional DayCare as envisioned by the government ( Liberals) is a recipe for disaster and the complete betrayal of a generation of children.
When I read here that children are marched downtown all tied to a rope like a chain gang I get angry. I would never have allowed such a thing to happen to my children nor would I have dreamed of conducting exercises with our DayCare children with so little concern and respect for them as such a thing implies. How outrageous.
Gimbol: Excellent post! I would find it hilarious except that it so spot on.
MaryM: Your daughter and granddaughter are very fortunate to have a mother/grandmother to be an anchor and a support for them. My grandparents stepped in to help my mom, my siblings, and me, otherwise our lives would have been much less stable.
Intact extended families are so important for children growing up, especially when the mom/dad relationship was never there or it has broken up.
Whatever choice mothers make about the care of their children, the one thing we as a society need to remember is that our children are our most preciouis resource. Human resources are more important than any other–after all, it’s the human resources that operate all of the other ones!–and we need to be very mindful of them.
WRT Peter D.’s comment at the very top above:
Not that it’s really anyone’s business, but some of us necessarily blog under a moniker for reason of personal security and the security of one’s family and others around them.
If everyone knew who I am, then I wouldn’t feel I could write as freely as I do. And we don’t want that to happen, do we? Who wants to read a blog overtempered by political correctness and designed to offend no one? What, then, would be the point of blogging?
Besides, really, I’m nobody anyone’s really heard of before. I’m just a regular guy with a computer and an internet connection who feels the need to say stuff about stuff.
It’s not like I have a woody for fame.
Texas Canuck here. I use this nom de plum just for many of the reasons that sentinal has mentioned. Besides, it is a very accurate decription of myself and helps explain some of my views, i.e. health care, where I’ve used and worked in both North American systems.
As to the working mother looking down her nose at stay-at-homes, I also think she has issues. The institutional national daycare that Lieberals and Dippers so fondly mention is nothing more than nationalized socialism. One shoe fits all. I feel it is up to parents (responsibility?) to decide what is best for them, their children and the family.
the only time either of my daughters were ever sick, one got impetigo and it’s nasty, is when they were in daycare. my neighbour worked out just fine instead.
The great irony in this whole debate, stay at home mom or “working” mom, is that actual CHILD CARE too often gets hijacked. For too long “child care” has been a political hot potato that comes down to what works best for mom, not necessarily what works best for kids, in keeping with the radical feminist mantra that women need to “be fulfilled.” Unfortunately, in their vernacular, being fulfilled is completely separate from being a full-time mother.
Canada is actually a pretty child-unfriendly country, with both the Libs and the NDP driving a wedge between women who stay home to care for their children and women who make the (often difficult and necessary) decision to use substitute care for their children. For too long, government solutions have pitted one group against the other rather than recognize that a one-size fits all daycare system is not the answer.
I’m grateful that the CPC is at least attempting to address the different realities of Canadian families around the care of their children. Their proposals aren’t perfect, $1200/year/child six and under may not be a lot of help, but it’s a start. ($2400/year when my two daughters were young would have seemed like manna from Heaven.) Support for businesses who create daycare spaces at their workplaces is another good initiative.
Our kids are our most precious resource. Let’s not shortchange them.
“(As an aside – what is it about those who skulk about on the toxic fringes of the leftosphere that they are so loathe to reveal their identities?)”
Well, I do it in part to protect myself against right wing bloggers, one of whom published my name and photograph on his site, edited (and rewrote) posts I made to his site, called my office, spoke to my staff and claimed I had threatened his family (an allegation that was, quite frankly, insane.)
That’s part of it. Some of you guys are dangerous.
As are some of you weirdos, Balbi!
And by the way, isn’t that a picture of your ugly face, right there on your stupid blog?
What a sophisticated and eloquent readership you continue to attract, Kate. My compliments, as always.
Sons of etc.: no, it’s not.
And what a predictable, typically snooty response from a Leftwad!
My dear fellow…that’s not even Kindergarten quality insults. “Ugly”? “Stupid”? Is that really the extent of your imagination?
Let me help, my poor, insipid little friend. Study the following quote from Cyrano de Bergerac (someone can no doubt help you with the harder bits.) Then when you can formulate an insult that shows evidence of anything approaching literacy, try again.
“THE VISCOUNT: No one? But wait!
I’ll treat him to … one of my quips! … See here! …
(He goes up to Cyrano, who is watching him. With a conceited air):
Sir, your nose is … hmm … it is … very big!
CYRANO (gravely): Very!
THE VISCOUNT (laughing): Ha!
CYRANO (imperturbably): Is that all?
THE VISCOUNT: What do you mean?
CYRANO: Ah no! young blade! That was a trifle short!
You might have said at least a hundred things
By varying the tone … like this, suppose, …
Aggressive: ‘Sir, if I had such a nose
I’d amputate it!’ Friendly: ‘When you sup
It must annoy you, dipping in your cup;
You need a drinking-bowl of special shape!’
Descriptive: ”Tis a rock! … a peak! … a cape!
–A cape, forsooth! ‘Tis a peninsular!’
Curious: ‘How serves that oblong capsular?
For scissor-sheath? Or pot to hold your ink?’
Gracious: ‘You love the little birds, I think?
I see you’ve managed with a fond research
To find their tiny claws a roomy perch!’
Truculent: ‘When you smoke your pipe … suppose
That the tobacco-smoke spouts from your nose–
Do not the neighbors, as the fumes rise higher,
Cry terror-struck: “The chimney is afire”?’
Considerate: ‘Take care, … your head bowed low
By such a weight … lest head o’er heels you go!’
Tender: ‘Pray get a small umbrella made,
Lest its bright color in the sun should fade!’
Pedantic: ‘That beast Aristophanes
Names Hippocamelelephantoles
Must have possessed just such a solid lump
Of flesh and bone, beneath his forehead’s bump!’
Cavalier: ‘The last fashion, friend, that hook?
To hang your hat on? ‘Tis a useful crook!’
Emphatic: ‘No wind, O majestic nose,
Can give THEE cold!–save when the mistral blows!’
Dramatic: ‘When it bleeds, what a Red Sea!’
Admiring: ‘Sign for a perfumery!’
Lyric: ‘Is this a conch? … a Triton you?’
Simple: ‘When is the monument on view?’
Rustic: ‘That thing a nose? Marry-come-up!
‘Tis a dwarf pumpkin, or a prize turnip!’
Military: ‘Point against cavalry!’
Practical: ‘Put it in a lottery!
Assuredly ‘twould be the biggest prize!’
Or … parodying Pyramus’ sighs …
‘Behold the nose that mars the harmony
Of its master’s phiz! blushing its treachery!’
–Such, my dear sir, is what you might have said,
Had you of wit or letters the least jot:
But, O most lamentable man!–of wit
You never had an atom, and of letters
You have three letters only!–they spell Ass!
And–had you had the necessary wit,
To serve me all the pleasantries I quote
Before this noble audience … e’en so,
You would not have been let to utter one–
Nay, not the half or quarter of such jest!
I take them from myself all in good part,
But not from any other man that breathes!
Sigh, Balby… this here ain’t the bloody Stratford Shakespeare Festival (or whatever it’s called).
Careful, good chap, for you don’t want to be the “walking shadow, a poor player…” ’cause we’re supposed to try to stay on-topic around this here joint. The lady behind the counter, see her? The one with the miniature Schnauzer sitting beside her? Well, she’s got a shootin’ iron nearby, and when we get too far outta hand… it’s up there with the dead gopher with us! 😉
CS, care to explain to me how “son’s” last two contributions were “on topic” (you obviously felt they were, since you didn’t address him).
Relax, Balby… I never said “sons” was on topic.
He was behaving as a troll, and you took the bait. That’s ok, ’cause I’ve done it, too, taken the bait, but learned to ignore the trolls, as they just like to stir up poop and whatnot. Don’t let them get to you.
Another rule of Kate’s. We limit our interaction with the trolls.
Although you did make the troll look like a cranky simpleton. Well-done.
It’s cool to ignore trolls, despite their provocations. If a response is necessary, then briefly address everyone or make a soliloquy to dismiss the trollishness with one sweep of the hand.
Might be better to discuss stuff with the smarter folks, like “ET” and “New Kid on the Block”.
How thing have changed during the last 50+yrs. When I married I had to quit my job with A.G.T., as married women were not allowed to work for the prov govt. RCMP could not marry for 7 yrs after becoming a mountie. My mistake was not getting a patent or trademark on frayed, faded or patched jeans that my sons wore. Neighbours were not afraid of lawsuits if they say a child in a dangerous situation and corrected it and touched the kid. Clerks were not afraid to tell a young child that picked up a bar etc that it was wrong, and inform parents. Teachers could console a child who fell, got hurt, or wasn’t picked for a team with no fear of being charged with sexual abuse or child abuse. Then the feminists came and family life has never been the same. They wanted equality with men, but when men agreed and started telling off color jokes, making rude remarks, and treating them like they treated men, women got upset. Men have killed men in fights for years, remember the valentine slaughter, but when a man killed 14 women the whole country got upset. Fact was, women did not want to be treated like men. Language is another example. When I grew up, and for many yrs after, no man would utter a profanity if a female was in the room. Now, girls think it is smart to use the most vulgar words, discuss their sex life, compare boys etc. It is this generation raising the next one. What will be the result. Not good.
Point taken, CS. Thanks for the calming influence, dude.
(By the way, if you haven’t seen it, rent the film version of “Cyrano” with Gerard Depardieu, and you can see that monologue performed brilliantly.)
Feminism did not ruin everything. When I went to college back in the late 60’s, my school guidance counselor gave me these choices, “nurse, teacher or secretary”, feminism wasn’t about equality it was about having choices. My first years in the work force were marred by desks covered with overflowing ash trays, sexual innuendos, butt pinching, and “get me a cup of coffee sugar”. When you married it was the female who was expected to give up her job, stay at home, put the meal on the table and wait on her man. The woman was not given a choice. Even now women who work lose out if they put their career on hold to stay home for the first five years of their kids lives, but at least now they have the choice, they can stay home – providing they can afford to, they can continue working and put their child into excellent daycare or the child’s father can stay at home. My daughter is now in University, she had choices, she could have become a plumber, an economist, a CPA, a doctor or her choice, a pyschologist. One more thing about feminism-back in the ’70s (and this made an impact on me) a women who was married for 34 years to a farmer went for a divorce-she received nothing-even though she worked on the farm the whole of her married life. Remember the lives that women have now whether you are a stay at home or working has only evolved in the last 35 to 40 years and still has more to go, but at least be glad your daughter knows she can be anything she wants to be and not held back because she is female.