Since breaking the Capitalist Pig cartoon story on March 3rd, the original thread has now run into the hundreds of comments. (And now it’s been linked at Fark) It’s time to update the post, if only to give the discussion a fresh start.
Pressure is still on theSheaf – local media isn’t letting the story go. The Saskatchewan Human Rights commission has received a number of complaints and will decide what to do by months end. FWIW, I think that’s going too far – but then, in my perfect world, these extra-legal, unaccountable thought policing bodies wouldn’t exist n the first place. Though, I’m just twisted enough to enjoy the show of a far-left commission facing hatemongering from “one of their own”. But that’s a topic for another day.
One comment (there are many good ones) did catch my eye, and I’ll reproduce it here – commentor “Karl” replies to “Chad”‘
You wrote: “The cartoon is showing the Christianity and Capitalism/consumerism go hand in hand.”
Actually, it seemed to be showing Christianity and Capitalism/Consumerism going dick in mouth. If he had wanted to convey “hand in hand”, he could have drawn them holding hands. The point (innane though it is) would have been made, and no one would have been offended by the vulgarity of it. Jesus did not need to be made out to be a homosexual with zoophilic tendencies. And Christians need not be told that we are somehow the immature ones for being offended at an image of our Lord performing fellatio on a pig.
You went on:“How is that not true? Has anyone noticed that Xmas is more about a fat guy wearing red than christ’s birth? What about easter? A rabbit that lays eggs.”
As a pastor I can tell you that there is no group who is more critical of this trend than Christians. Have you not noticed all of the ‘keep the Christ in Christmas’ stuff? Have you not noticed that it is non religious people who continually want ‘holiday trees’ and the non specific ‘happy holidays’ greetings rather than ‘merry Christmas’? Have you not seen that non religious people are the ones who insist upon the consumerist non-Christian holiday of sentimentality, greed and gluttony that Christmas has become?? I say non religious, because in my experience, non Christian religious people (eg Muslims, Jews, Hindus) have no problem with Christmas. The ones who have the problem are those of ‘Christian Stock’ who put on airs of sophisticated athiesm, or groovy non sprecific spirituality which means anything, and nothing. Thye claim to be above Christianity, but really they are obcessed with it, blaming it for all of society’s ills, for every tragedy and travesty, and no doubt for their acne as well. To blame Christianity for the bastardization of Christmas is laughable!! If you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you ‘stick it to the man’ by letting your employer know that you are available to work on December 24th and 25th. And don’t buy anybody any presents. Don’t accept any either. Don’t visit family. Refuse that Christmas bonus. And might I suggest a protest fast on the 25th. For myself, I’ll do what I always do on Christmas. Preach the Word, administer Holy Communion, and later that day, break my Advent fast as I feast with my family in celebration of the Nativity of my Lord.
You continued: “I think Christianity has turned became a thing of social status. I find this mind blowing because Jesus preached about doing the exact opposite of this.”
I would find this mind blowing too, if it were true. Perhaps it was once, but the ’70’s are a long time ago. I wear my clerical collar in public quite a lot. I can relate well to the goths, because I get as many hostile stares. (and they seem to like to dress in black as much as I do). Think about it man!!! Stockwell Day was vilified for his Christian beliefs (remember the ‘How Scary’ McLeans cover?). Christians are regularily ridiculed for their beliefs. If we were looking for worldly status, we would be trying out for Canadian Idol, not living as Christians.
I was offended by the cartoon, and I don’t buy the argument that I am missing some deeper meaning. To me it is a sophmoric neo marxist interpretation of religion and its relationship to capitalism which was already past its expiry date some 20 years ago, and is only currently alive in the never never land of tenured political science chairs occupied by professors who are still a little miffed that revolution they boldly predicted some 40 years ago never came to pass. And how their young sheep bleat!!
Nicely done, I thought.
Now, time to take this issue down another tangent – so far the controversy has been limited to the offense given to Christians. That raises an interesting, and as yet, unasked question – When are the cartoonists going to be called on the carpet to explain the hatred directed at so-called “capitalists”?
The premise that “capitalism=bad” and that any group, any individual, any religion should have to disassociate themselves from business to attain moral purity is an intellectual embarrassment to begin with. But the cartoon goes one step further – in choosing a pig to represent the businessman, they have chosen the time honored progaganda tool of dehumanization.
That these small-minded refugees of Marxism are receiving a heavily subsidized education at an institution funded by tax revenues generated in large part by the very “capitalists” they would portray as pigs, just adds injury to insult.
Instead of hauling them before the Human Rights Commission, or calling for a wholesale purge at the Sheaf. I’d suggest a not-so-gentle push towards a little moral purity of their own – by removing the stench of “capitalism/consumerism” from their university education. Allow the enlightened to demonstrate the courage of their left-wing convictions. Present them with an invoice for the total cost of their education to date, adjust tuition to cover 100% of the costs, and cut off of any tax-funded student loans.
Something tells me the artist Y!th and his defenders at the U of S would find that a little too hard to swallow.
and jason we do idealize capitalism. That’s why North America has a primarily free market.
….if the right could just loose the religious bunk and stop trying to legislate morality then it would probably be more popular among sensible people.
Paul, get a grip. There is a large percentage of the Right that isn’t religious. Stop the assumptions. And please point to where the all-powerful religious right have won anything of significance. They can’t even have a public nativity creche or clean up porn or the Piss Christ artists.
The US and Canada aren’t theocracies.
Your angry diatribe against Christianity reveals an intolerance that isn’t very becoming to an alleged educated and balanced person.
More people have perished under godless fascism and communism then religion in the past enlightened century. Maybe more God and less State would have averted the catastrophe.
Anyone that starts off with ALL religions are bad is dismissable. And, most religions are organized whether you are Navajo or Jewish because religion is a heritage and part of a culture.
Your so called Leftists are not funded by the system they want to destroy. Saskatchewan has a mixed economy where the government provides subsidies to the university through the use of tax revenues.
Duh, where do you think the tax revenues come from?
I have always heard that the “A ” students usually end up working for the “C” students, once they get out in the real world. After several years of thinking about this, I think there are exceptions. Some ( not all) of the “A” students end up in academia as Professor this or that, simply because they could not exist on their own anywheres else. So we allow this group to dream about life as it should be and allow then to teach our children. I had some amazing teachers at the U of S, but there were also a bunch of off the wall leftists who probably would have trouble finding their ass with both hands.
But then, there are another group of ” A” students who have gone out and made a difference. Our beautiful and talented Kate probably falls in this group. We really need more Kate’s in our society… people who are not afraid to really live life.. people who are able to use logic… people who know the difference between right and wrong, without having an extremist view. People who can laugh .. even at themselves from time to time,people who are extremely intelligent and who know how to sift through the crap to the real issues at hand. My personal thanks go to Kate for bringing us all provocative thought and debate. If you ever decide to run for politics, I personally will take 3 weeks off and work 24-7 for your campaign. It kinda has a nice ring to it… Prime Minister Kate….
”
“Your so called Leftists are not funded by the system they want to destroy. Saskatchewan has a mixed economy where the government provides subsidies to the university through the use of tax revenues.”
“Duh, where do you think the tax revenues come from”
You can’t be serious. Of course some taxes come from businesses(Not a majority. Of course our economy is mixed. No lefty in the Canada would be stupid enough to want a pure socialist economy. Taxing businesses in order to pay for public education is an aspect of socialism. Thats what I’m trying to get across PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SOCIALIST BY DEFINITION. How could removing tax funding, wherever it comes from, be considered socialist.
Of course some taxes come from businesses(Not a majority.
Heh, if the taxes don’t come from business, it comes those who work for business.
Thats what I’m trying to get across PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SOCIALIST BY DEFINITION.
Of course it is, but socialists wish to destroy the free enterprise that funds the socialism.
Socialists would distract us with cartoons and various other fluff to dirvert our attention from this reality.
listen to part two:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200603/20060308.html
http://tinyurl.com/rmpjb
ok fair enough ol hoss. If thats what you think thats fine, but I have never met a socialist who wants to destroy free enterprise. Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.
Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.
Increasing taxes drives away business, in turn drives away people, in turn lowering tax revenue. That’s why Sask. has so few people while having as many or more resources than Alberta.
Not a bad thing so far as I’m concerned, I like lot’s of room:)
Jason, the french coined the word for capitalism as an ideal, its call “laissez faire”. The problem with it is it translates into “Leave to do”, as in you can do what ever you need to do.
Unfortunately, the Marxist left decided it was synonomous with “Don’t care”. As a result, it’s almost a dirty word now.
The best example of a “laissez faire” economy is, of course, the US, while we hold to a mixed economy of social and capitalist sentiment.
Anyway, the students at UofS are just kids, and when they go out and get real lives, with real problems, and real Tax assessments that don’t give them returns, when they’ve discovered that the best they can hope for is that at least once in their lives they will get a red letter from Revenue Canada, (I pray every year for a second one) then they will understand how much better it was when they were kids.
In the meantime, their just dumb kids, fucking around… just like most of us did when we were that age.
Nothing like a re-assessment from Rev Can to make you grow up to hate Socialism.
of course, Kate, if you had the courage of your convictions, you’d be enlisting in the Marines when you’re stateside. In fact, all the soft, pudgy, right wing blog people could do likewise; if they had the courage of their convictions. osama
RE: human rights commission
That is something that could NEVER happen in the U.S. a “human rights commission” that is?
Why? you may ask.
Because it sounds like something right out of the Stalinist purges.
And Canadians think Steven Harper is scary?
You people ARE ASLEEP!
kmm – I feel that socialists by definition want to redistribute wealth. They want to unevenly tax the most hardworking, cleverest, thriftiest and most entreprenurial members of society in order to subsidize the less competent.
The benefactors of this redistribution keep them in power.
I’m not saying that the truly sick, impaired and handicapped shouldn’t be subsidized.
That’s why I’m in favor of a flat tax across the board. It’s fair.
Hey osama,
If you had the courage of YOUR convictions, you would come out of your rat hole and face the US Marines.
Since you’re not really OBL himself, but a soft coddled leftist, why don’t you go to Iraq and be a human shield for your beloved “minute-men?”
Chicken-dove.
Osama, anyone of US citizenship, regardless of residency or dual status, upon reaching the age of 18 and/or under 35, is required by law to register for the draft.
So said God… I mean Ronald Reagan. Who inadvertantly seriously screwed up my sking vacation as a result when I turned 21.
You should be thankful that law doesn’t exist here.
Great post, Kate. I was a sheep for five years, but in the end, the attempted indoctrination I received into the pomosocialist/moral relativist groupthink did not work.
There are many great professors across the country, but much of the arts and humanities
faculties are not trying to teach critical thinking; they are trying to define Critical Thought. It is Clooney Bravery: criticize capitalism, Christianity and a high standard of living in a free country. Islamofascism, Theo van Gogh and people facing Taliban oppression are on their own and in a detached, theoretical manner are really victims of White Male Patriarchal Capitalist Imperialism. There were much more pressing issue to discuss, such as transgendered washrooms.
In 2004, whilte still fairly leftie, I was told by a professor that I should read The Communist Manisfesto, after writing that communism had been proven not to recognize human rights. She said that the USSR hadn’t been “real” communism.
Now that I’m working and funding this shit (as opposed to screaming in front of the the legislature to pay even less of the tuition myself), I’m pissed. I share your offense as a proponent of capitalism, Kate.
Some pimply lefty punk rages at the keyboard using “osama” as a handle, now that’s original.
kmm
The marxist anticapitalists admittedly hate the evil capitalists.
Capitalists are subhuman gay swine, apparently for the U of S Sheaf reading students.
Only money created by captilists contribute to the tax base.
There is no other money, there is no other part to your “mixed economy”.
So take away the hated capitalists money that pays for their anticapitalist marxist education and the marxists have …nothing, just a proven marxist lie for an ideal.
kmm – I feel that socialists by definition want to redistribute wealth. They want to unevenly tax the most hardworking, cleverest, thriftiest and most entreprenurial members of society in order to subsidize the less competent.
The benefactors of this redistribution keep them in power.
I’m not saying that the truly sick, impaired and handicapped shouldn’t be subsidized.
That’s why I’m in favor of a flat tax across the board. It’s fair.
Posted by penny at March 8, 2006 02:05 PM”
apparently I’m not making myself clear enough. The perils of jumping between studying and posting on the internet I guess.
I know too much socialism can be bad and I know not enough of it can be bad, but I wasn’t argueing either way. I was simply saying that removing public funding for the university is a lessening of socialism. So I just don’t see how this would make them realize that socialism is bad and capitalism is good. Obviously any student that sees their tuition double or whatever will want to go back to the more socialist method of subsidization through tax revenue. Notice I’m not saying pure socialism, I understand that lots of tax of revenue does come from the free market.
um richfisher, have you ever been to saskatchewan. We have these little things called crown corporation(ie. publicly owned business) Admittedly they don’t match the private sector for profits, but they still exist, thus making a mixed economy.
Also a mixed economy isn’t they only part of socialism. A province could have a completely private market, yet tax it in order to pay for public funds and it would be considered socialist.
For some reason Minister of Complex Files comes to mind. lol
kmm – south of the border, i had one kid choose a state subsized university and another choose a non-subsidized expensive private college. trust me, younger daughter carrying a hefty amount of student loans is more appreciative of capitalism. she has to hussle more to pay those loans and will never appreciate a government that wants to tax her more. our retirement is shot to hell, but that was our individual choice, too.
all tax money basically comes from the free market.
americans, i think, are bigger risk takers because we can still be. we have less government on our backs. i’ll take that anyday over socialism.
Courage,… like posting under a mass murderers name who’s presently cowering in a cave.
You could self detonate yourself if you were’nt such a pussy, Osama.
hey penny thats a good point. I still think that suddenly cutting funding to the u of s would serve no purpose other than to alienate the students.
IMO, the only action that should be taken against the University, the paper, or the authors is exactly the action that is being taken. More speech.
If those involved decide, as a result of this speech to self-censor, then that is their choice to make. Forcing them to do so under threat of governmental action is overkill, and may well be a decision that comes back to haunt those calling for it.
So much anger tsk tsk
Listen folks these are young people kicking at the boundaries. In this case the boundaries of a “free” press and “freedom” of speech.
We want them to test boundaries and challenge assumptions don’t we?????
Besides, these kids have been brought up on the syrup of Capitalism. It’s good for you and everyone else. No one tells them about the dark side and dark history of Capitalism until they get to University. So they are a little angry that they’ve been lied to by media and parents. Not so much for what they’ve been told but for what they haven’t been told. So they rebel for a little while. We all know that when they graduate they will resume their totally predictable existence as carriers of the flame of Canadian Ideals. So relax everyone.
William, I believe that draft registration may be required for all residents of the USA, regardless of citizenship.
Also one must register at 18, not 21 and what has that got to do with Pres. Reagan? The draft and the draft registry were around way before his terms.
Also there is NO draft, a rather important point you “forgot” to include in your lame complaint about your ski vacation.
Why can’t we have a fanciful capitalism to counter the equally fanciful socialist ideal?
Ever read Atlas Shrugged? Part of the reason it’s enduringly popular is that it illustrates such an ideal.
Some pimply lefty punk rages at the keyboard using “osama” as a handle, now that’s original.
He’s just a pimply punk, eh? Thank goodness, he had me shit-scared for a while. I really had to confront myself and my white male hetrosexist capitalist assumptions there. Wow, what a challenging, alternative thing for him to do!
Angela,
“faculties are not trying to teach critical thinking; they are trying to define Critical Thought.”
Excellent bon mot! Mind if I borrow it?
In which province do you reside?
No, I said register for, not be, drafted. I also pointed out that it was required from 18 on. I wasn’t aware it was for all residents, regardless of citizenship. I pointed it out in regards to being stopped for speeding and then arrested for not having registered, for which I had to spend a night in jail, as it was to late in the day. I did not allude to a draft. Ronald Reagan made it an offence not to registar in 1978 or 79, I can’t remember which. Until that time, it was voluntary.
“I’d suggest a not-so-gentle push towards a little moral purity of their own – by removing the stench of “capitalism/consumerism” from their university education. Allow the enlightened to demonstrate the courage of their left-wing convictions. Present them with an invoice for the total cost of their education to date, adjust tuition to cover 100% of the costs, and cut off of any tax-funded student loans.”
What a strange argument. Leftists, who argue for state-subsidized education, can “demonstrate the courage of their convictions” by paying for 100% of their own education.
The only people who want students to pay 100% of the cost of their education are those on the extreme right. If you were arguing that they should put their money where their mouth is I would understand your argument.
Subsidized education is not capitalism.
Sorry Osama, Kate couldn’t join the US Armed Forces even if she wanted to, unless she’s an American citizen or landed immigrant; if my memory serves me correctly about the post 9/11 correspondence I received from a Lt Col Kuhn of the US Marines.
Before you ask, they held me overnight because I also have Canadian Citizenship, and were worried I’d run back to Canada. At the time there was a fair bit of discussion regarding the registration.
I know too much socialism can be bad and I know not enough of it can be bad, but I wasn’t argueing either way. I was simply saying that removing public funding for the university is a lessening of socialism. So I just don’t see how this would make them realize that socialism is bad and capitalism is good. Obviously any student that sees their tuition double or whatever will want to go back to the more socialist method of subsidization through tax revenue. Notice I’m not saying pure socialism, I understand that lots of tax of revenue does come from the free market.
You are a fuzzy thinker KMM ..
When you say lots of tax comes from the free market … Try ALL TAX comes from the free market.
Students and others find out that Capitalism is good, when they go out and make something of themselves and reap the rewards. The only rewards in Socialism is the receiving of other peoples money because you present yourself as one of many types of loser.
By cutting off free money to students, they will only be more aliented from the main …
This is the same logic that Neville Chamberlain used re the Nazi’s and many Westerners now use regarding the terrorists. Appease then gets more of them. Kill them gets fewer of them.
Half of the students being subsidized for their watered down useless BAs would do much better learning a trade so they can work to produce wealth rather than piss away their lives in a useless government job or in a class room.
You need to think things through to a more logical conclusion and also to learn a bit more about human nature.
YOu are probably an insecure person and that is why Socialism appeals to you. Or you may just be uninformed. You tell me.
One gentleman has reportedly suggested that the “cradle to grave” support is most responsible for the poor lifestyles that natives endure. He is a former judge, and fluent in six or seven languages, including Japanese, Mandarin & Russian.
He has also stated that natives have been well compensated for the undeveloped land they held at the time. Racist bastard!…
He also happens to be one of the founders of the AFN, and a former Chief on his reserve. Apparently his views don’t sit well with some in the native community as he has been banned off some reserves.
My apologies, wrong thread.
Hi Steve,
“No one tells them about the dark side and dark history of Capitalism until they get to University. So they are a little angry that they’ve been lied to by media and parents. Not so much for what they’ve been told but for what they haven’t been told.”
Have you been to a high school history or sociology class in the past 15 years?
Believe me, they’ve been told about the “evils” of capitalism long before they get to university.
But I agree with your conclusion: they are just kids, and they will learn better very soon.
………………………….
As to the whole “critical thought” issue:
Once at university, people are told to be “critical”. Unfortunately, “critical thought” is defined as socialist/anti-globalist/radical femminist thought, and anyone who questions these orthodoxies is told that they aren’t “thinking critically”.
Angela described this process very well above.
“Critical thinking” is a process. It involves freely and rigorously questioning ideas and assertions. It is absolutley necessary in both a university and a free society.
“Critical thought”, as defined in many universities, is nothing more than a label for all left-wing thought.
Ironically, “critical thinking” is very effective at breaking down “critical thought”.
Re: “Ronald Reagan made it an offence not to registar in 1978 or 79, I can’t remember which. Until that time it was voluntary.”
As far as I can recall draft registration was not made voluntary when the draft was abolished in the 70’s.
And Pres. Reagan was elected in 1980 and took office in Jan 1981.
And all that is required to register for the draft (besides the will to do so) is a stop at a post office.
Who else has noticed John Gormley’s flipflop on cartoon freedom of expression? It’s ok for the Western Standard to publish offensive cartoons depicting a religious figure from Islam, but it’s very wrong to publish an offensive cartoon featuring Jesus, apparently.
What a strange argument. Leftists, who argue for state-subsidized education, can “demonstrate the courage of their convictions” by paying for 100% of their own education.
Another candidate for Minister of Complex Files.
Yes Bozo, but you have to do it. Thank-you for correcting the date. Your breaking the law if you don’t register on you 18th year. Also, non-citizens are not required to register as they can’t be drafted, and typically you can’t serve in the US military unless your a citizen. There are exception of course, but as a general rule, unless they have a reason for wanting you, you can’t be a foriegn national.
Anyway, the point I was making was that Canada is fortunate not to have such legislation in place, nor has it had it since the second world war. That is the difference in attitudes on the Left/Right discussion.
For Osama to say that Kate should enlist is, besides not being necessary, not necessarily avoidable in the States. While there is no legislation calling for a draft, the registry is used in the event of the need for a draft.
People are drafted under certain critria, starting at 18 years of age, when that age catagory is exhausted, the next age group is called and so forth. If they actually got to 35 year olds, you can safely say they are probably giving everyone tall enough a gun, regardless of age, as it supposes that they have exhausted the remains of the 35’s and under.
Canada has no such registration requirement, and in a draft senario, would have to accumulate the data prior to the action being put in place.
The purpose of the US registry is to be able to start calling up right now. At the drop of a hat.
Osama should consider himself lucky he lives in a country that would have to go through a great deal of trouble to institute a draft and then organize it.
In the states, if congress says go, the notices go out in a matter of days.
All this talk about “what is socialism?” is interesting but, the internet makes it possible to go right to the source.
Here is a link to the world socialist website.
http://www.wsws.org/index.shtml
And another to the real Cuba website with heartbreaking pictures of Cuba, B.C. (before Castro).
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page8.htm
Here Bozo, in case your interested in Selective Service:
http://www.sss.gov/
The UofS cartoons are like the Mohammed ones – gratuitous insults, unfortunte and best ignored. The Dane didn’t have to label them Mohammed, and the Sask didn’t have to include a halo.
But some questions for Kate: Why are you reaching for the “hate” cudgel? What is “hate?” Have we reached the happy state of political correctness where you cannot express disapproval, disgust, ridicule or anything short of outright approval without facing accusations of fomenting “hate.” Have you considered the possibility that you and a lot of your fans are fomenting “hate” against Liberals and – dare I even speak the name – Socialists?
After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now know that the official Socialist/Liberal university degree is a liberal arts degree, and that the Conservative degree of record is a business degree. Divides the country up nicely.
I know non-citizens could most definitely be drafted.
Length of Residency and age, not citizenship, determined the requirement for registration.
Non citizens could not be sent to the front lines.
Good thing you are not Swiss William (2 years mandatory military service).
I wasn’t aware that non-citizens could be drafted but its on the site as true. I think the age thing has changed to. Well, it was my fault anyway, they did send me several letters which I ignored.
There you go, you learn something new every day.
For those of you who enjoy peeling Jason Cherniaks flesh back, one word at a time, he’s gone and stepped in his own shit again.
“IN DEFENSE OF SCOTT BRISOM”
ol hoss,
Thanks for riding shotgun while I was visiting my daughter’s government subsidised kindergarten.
Some people have trouble seeing the big picture.
The generous government subsidies for education are provided by the successful capitalist enterprises of Canada.
Any responsible government should carefully look at what these subsidies are being used for.
If they determine that there will be a need for people with a PhD’s in gender studies or heavy duty mechanics, by all means, they should support those programs.
If they don’t predict a societal need for large numbers of certain graduates, it would be irresponsible for the government to subsidise them from the public purse.
kmm posted
�If thats what you think thats fine, but I have never met a socialist who wants to destroy free enterprise. Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.�
You just don�t get it do you?
Of course they don�t want to destroy it. That�s their free lunch for God�s sake!
But they do need to remember TANSTAAFL. (There ain�t no such thing as a free lunch)
As a taxpayer I expect my tax dollar to be spent responsibly. I do not consider funding students and profs who continually bite the hand that feeds them a good investment of my tax dollar.
If they don’t predict a societal need for large numbers of certain graduates, it would be irresponsible for the government to subsidise them from the public purse.
Like they predicted how many medical personnel would be needed?