Bannock, Beer And Spirit Names

83 Replies to “Bannock, Beer And Spirit Names”

1. Mike – they aren’t perks. See the fair payment calculations I have provided in previous posts.
   And by the way, why is it that mixed blood people should be left out?
   Hoss – You would expect to pay the same for the beautiful farmland of the prairies as you would for the muskegs of Alaska? How about the rich agricultural land of the St Lawrence region? How about the St. Lawrence seaway? Thats why Canada is worth 100 times the value of Alaska. Alaska would trade straight across for, lets say, Baffin Island.
   My 100 Billion payback figure includes interest. Lets see your figures.
   Sorry man, your case isn’t getting much stronger.

2. Alaska would trade straight across for, lets say, Baffin Island.
   Better keep your day job, appraisal isn’t your strong suit.
   My 100 Billion payback figure includes interest. Lets see your figures.
   You forgot healthcare and a few other things.
   It’s obvious you have no idea of the value of things. That comes from actually producing something of value.

3. Hoss – what does the last comment imply? That I personally, Northern Saskatchewan, or Aboriginal people produce nothing of value?
   Or just name calling because you’ve lost the argument?

4. North Sask: When do we deduct all the government grants, health care, pow wow payments, new houses, new cars, trucks and combines bought with treaty money?
   But I’ll ask you a question. How do YOU see yourself fitting into Canadian society? How do YOU see yourself as a Canadian?

5. Um, Tomax, the 100 Billion covers it. What’s your figure?
   Good question on Canadianism, though. Now this is constructive! As a Canadian, I want to work (which I do), raise a family (which I am) and enjoy life (you betcha). I am willing to pay with taxes (have since I started working out – at age 16) for what I receive in terms of services. I want mainstream Canadians to acknowledge the agreements which were made with Aboriginal people to form this country.
   From those agreements, I want the land to stay in the hands of the ancestors of the Bands that signed. And I believe that funding for education and health care on reserve should be funded by the federal government as part of the treaty agreements.
   I believe that Aboriginal governnance systems should be in place, but should be funded through taxes collected from Aboriginal people (except health care and education). I think that a 10 year strategy for economic development for Aboriginal people and companies should be developed by Aboriginal, Federal, and Provincial governments.
   What do you think? See any common ground?

6. In October 2005, Jim Prentice (now Minister of Aboriginal Affairs) stood up in the House and asked the question (which was never answered)How much of the $10 billion paid by the taxpayers to Indian Affairs is going back to the Liberal Party in kick backs?
   That sounded like a fair question. Also, the $5.3 billion dollars that the Liberals decided to further commit to the Aboriginals at the Kelowna Ministers Meeting was NOT enough according to the local chief as the headlines the next day stated “Thanks But It is Not Enough”
   If it was more, does anyone think that it would be enough?
   The fact is these chiefs have been on the gravy train for so long they know nothing else. Their people are starving but the chiefs and the chosen few are rolling in oceans of money. Billions of unaccounted taxpayers dollars are dumped on these corrupt chief and councils and it will never be enough. Not now…not ever. And how do they keep the gravey train rolling? With kick backs and brown bags of cash being dumped on the door steps of selected politicians.
   So now we all have the chance to see if Stephen Harper and his anti-corruption cabinet have the balls to open this can of worms and see just how deep the corruption in Indian Affairs really goes. But don’t hold your breath. My guess there will just be a new set of politicans, in conservative blue, with their hands out.

7. The fact is, I don’t owe you a penny beyond what is literally written in the treaties. And the sooner you understand that the better we’ll get along.
   btw, providing a health care service isn’t mentioned in the treaties. Neither is a, so-called, treaty payment except for a stipend of $5 or $10.

8. Ok, no more Mr. nice guy. I thought we were on a constructive thread here, but now you guys are back to mud slinging.
   R.M.T. – I feel for ya. Seeing theives and crooks around every corner. If its not a liberal, its a damn Indian! Damn!
   Hoss – I believe health care is still a right of all Canadians. In the treaty it is usually literally stated as a medicine chest. And this year, hold back $5 from your taxes. I’ll give you a letter of approval. I don’t want your money. You fight it out with Revenue Canada. Is only way we’ll get along when I agree with you? How about you respect me, because I do respect you. I respect the fact that you think differently than me. Look at my post again about what I want as a Canadian. Am I welcome in YOUR Canada? I welcomed you to mine.

9. I believe health care is still a right of all Canadians. In the treaty it is usually literally stated as a medicine chest.
   The facts and what you believe are two different things. There’s no “right” to health care just like there’s no right to free groceries. Get over it.
   A medicine chest is supplies, not service.

10. Sask,
    Why don’t we call it even and start anew? Trying to go back to old treaties won’t work.
    Meaning, while you can recognize your heritage, time marches on. You got to be absorbed into the mainstream society.
    Ukrainians, German, and other European ethnic groups have become Canadians, all the while not loosing their identities.
    Like another poster said, we seem to learn from our mistakes and move on. I will add, not dwell on them.
    The treaties were a farce, a steal by white man of native lands. So for you to keep harping on the treaties shows maybe you don’t have the full grasp on it either.
    Another question, so ok, you get reserves. What happens when you run out of room due to population growth? Another treaty?
    So you want me to pay your schooling. Now, who has say on what is being taught? Native spirit tales or science? Heck if we can’t teach a simple opinion of creationism why should you be able to talk about the Great Spirit?
    No, my friend, the only way we can move on is for you to join us in the 21st century, if I can say that without sounding ignorant.
    cheers
    tom

11. I don’t know. If I break my leg, don’t I have a right to have it set by a doctor? Or maybe its a privilege. Either way, I don’t think the hospital can turn me away. That’s the point I was trying to make.
    Are you implying I want free groceries? Read again my post on what I want as a Canadian. Do you see free groceries listed?
    So am I welcome in YOUR Canada or not?
    I guess not.
    See what happens when you let riff raff move into your neighbourhood? Pretty soon they think they own the place!

12. Tom,
    I’ll agree to disagree with you. I don’t think you can so lightly break the treaties. Because that then means you do not have a legitimate right to own the land you live on. The treaties were and are a GREAT deal for non Aboriginal Canadians.
    Your society has tried to assimilate Aboriginals before. It didn’t work. It won’t work now. As many have advised me today, I will advise you – Get over it.
    Next time you see an obviously Aboriginal person, try to see past the Aboriginal and look at the person. I would advise an Aoriginal person to do the same when he sees you.
    Schooling by the way should be (and is in most First Nation schools) to provincial curriculum standards.

13. So am I welcome in YOUR Canada or not?
    Absolutely you are welcome. Always have been so far as I’m concerned. One law for all, including the treaties as literally written.
    Because that then means you do not have a legitimate right to own the land you live on.
    That’s right. The treaties are a legal contract.
    Someday you will have your land back. It’s written.

14. From North Sask,
    if all the “right” programs had been (or were to be) put in place, how close do you believe natives would be integrated into European Canadian culture? as close as Polish, German, Irish?
    with respect,
    a different doug

15. On taxes, to split hairs here. Taxes as defined in the treaties referred to the taxes of the day, which were duties, on goods. Income taxes were not even a thought yet. it was the Supreme Court that “read” income taxes to be included under the old terms.It has never been passed by parliament, as far as I last heard.
    Every society of people in this world displaced another to get the land(s) they are currently in possession of. Based on todays arguements, I wonder what the Italians would be having to pay out when they conquered and settled most of Europe, and the Spanish….the Moors….the Mongols etc. Lucky for the native peoples here it was the Brits and not the Yanks that were on this side. As we know, there was a seek-and-destroy policy in force down there at one time. So, when do the native societies (bands) that displaced other native societies (bands) pay restitution to those they displaced? They weren’t all one happy family. Enter “kenniwick man”. He (she) wasn’t native, and predated many known settlements of first nations. And why are so many people interested in shutting down the research on “kenniwick man”? Could it possibly blow many currently held beliefs all to hell?
    As I posted earlier about traditional diets etc. I and my coworkers, some of whom are native, watch as our hard-earned dollars are needlessly wasted. It is a fact that the biggest percapita users of healthcare in this country is the native population, they also put the least amount of resources into that same system. Why do they use so much? Diabetes, alcoholism, drugs, and other health related issues/diseases. That one native leader in the US showed that by going back to a traditional diet, and banning drugs and alcohol, and teaching traditional ways, the health issues became ALMOST non-existent. With that came improved mental health. They went from dependant society to an independant one in a few years. Why? Because someone stepped up to the plate and put the train back on the tracks. Sadly I haven’t seen the same interest up here in any native leaders up here. My anger isn’t directed at natives in general, just toward a few. I saw a child the other day, about 8 yrs old. His mother did everything for him….and I mean EVERYTHING! put his shoes on him, tied them, put his coat on him, zipped it… on and on. In that image I saw many natives. Standing there while “the system” does everything for them. I have NO pity for people that choose to engage in alcohol, drugs, and sloth and then stand there, waiting for someone to “do” for them. I did my drinking, and can live without it. I tried almost every drug on the street, satisfied my curiosity and walked away from it, and I started working at the age of 10, got my first job at 13. Ive paid my own way for 30 yrs. If I can do it, then I’m pretty sure someone with access to all the things I didn’t have access to can bloody well do it. Through the ages, it’s been adapt or perish. I see no reason why that has changed. Educate those that “stand there waiting”, give them the tools, then let nature take its course. The strong will survive, the weak will perish and it will be a new beginning. There has to be a time when enough is enough. I didn’t create this mess, but I sure as hell inherited it! Mess for sale…..anyone?

16. Before anyone decides to jump all over my *ss about my above post, it can be extrapolated to include other areas and other people, not just natives.

17. I agree with Snookie there Sask. What about your own culture? I’m sure you folks like the Cree took lands from other tribes. Shouldn’t they restore or repay for “damages” done?
    I think we need to take another look at the treaty and update or revise it. It should also state you can only sell land at the past value if it hasn’t been developed, like roads, sewers and so on that a local municipality pays for via, what’s that word again – oh yeah taxes.
    I remember up at Frog Lake reserve near Cold Lake the Alberta government wanted to upgrade the dirt road between Lloydminister and Grand Centre/Cold Lake. The band wanted I think $1 million per mile to allow the government to pave it! What they hey? If anything this would improve life on the reserve giving better access and less FORD’s (Found On Reserve, Dead) laying around from broken suspensions and whatnot.
    So what did Klein do? Built around it. So now we got a great paved road, but with a slight detour of a couple miles to the east. Well worth it.
    So who’s fault was that? Glad to see the government didn’t cave into greed for a change.
    But Sask, you didn’t answer me, do you see yourself as a Canadian, and how would you fit into Canadian society?
    As for “tried it before”, yes that was wrong with the boarding schools, but I think we’ve progressed since those days. Then again I don’t get how the Native culture let a different race come and take their children away? I would be up in literal arms fighting if you touched my kids.
    cheers
    tom

18. Tomax – I have pasted my previous response to your question on Canadianism below for your benefit.
    Good question on Canadianism, though. Now this is constructive! As a Canadian, I want to work (which I do), raise a family (which I am) and enjoy life (you betcha). I am willing to pay with taxes (have since I started working out – at age 16) for what I receive in terms of services. I want mainstream Canadians to acknowledge the agreements which were made with Aboriginal people to form this country.
    From those agreements, I want the land to stay in the hands of the ancestors of the Bands that signed. And I believe that funding for education and health care on reserve should be funded by the federal government as part of the treaty agreements.
    I believe that Aboriginal governnance systems should be in place, but should be funded through taxes collected from Aboriginal people (except health care and education). I think that a 10 year strategy for economic development for Aboriginal people and companies should be developed by Aboriginal, Federal, and Provincial governments.
    What do you think? See any common ground?

19. For Snookie and Tomax –
    Lots to look at Snookie in your post – I will address a few points – I totally agree with you in terms of the diet. I think, though, that if you talked to some First Nation leaders that you would get agreement on that issue.
    I also agree with you that people should not get a free ride. I also think, however, that the agreements that were made through the treaties which led the way to forming this country should be honoured. You cannot forget them.
    Tom – I think the whole relationship between Aboriginals (including Metis) and Canada need to be reviewed. Bear in mind, though, that if the treaties are struck down, Canada does not have legitimate claim to the land and resources until Aboriginal title is dealt with. The problem is that we need to eliminate the dependancy while honouring the agreement. We’ll have to work together to do that, and I believe the first step in doing that is to become educated in each others views. Thats why I am posting on a conservative blog – to check my own opinion on things and hopefully to get you folks to think about your opinions.
    About taking children away for residential schools – the Aboriginals at the time were intimidated by the RCMP (they would throw you in jail) the church (you would go to hell) and the government (people saw what happened to the Metis when they tried to rebel). Also the government and Canadians were telling them: “assimilate to the white population, its in your best interest, this is the best way, trust us, we know.”
    People at the time had no choice. I know there were individual acts of protest. My wife’s father for example, burned down the residential school he went to. He spent 10 years in reform school for that, and was the most gentle person you would ever want to meet when I knew him.

20. Sask:
    There is a legal term for something that has existed for a prescribed amount of time, that it become the defacto standard – “grandfather clause”.
    Meaning, for example a scenario of a fence between two properties – if say after 10 years one owner finds out it is 1 foot over on his property, it becomes the standard line to gauge bye and does not have to be torn down and relocated.
    So Canada being “Canada” for 139 years, and the boundaries have been established, will remain as so, legally.
    The treaty would not be valid. Otherwise we would still need someone walking three feet in front of our cars to warn horse drawn buggies to beware of the noise.
    But treaty or no treaty, what have you folks done to get yourselves out of adjunctive poverty and self inflicted vices?
    You seem to have done well, house, wife, kids. That’s nice. Now how much of that was obtained by workable income? Don’t take it personally, general question I ask all Native debators.
    cheers
    tom

21. tom,
    what a grotesque post.
    The original grandfather clauses were contained in the Jim Crow laws used from 1895 to 1910 in seven of the Southern United States to prevent blacks, Native Americans and whites of non-British descent from voting. If your grandfather did not have the right to vote; neither did you.
    Today, if you had put a fence on my side of our property line 10 years ago, and i decide to put up a new fence, i can put it on the true line. 10 years of a misplaced fence does not change a property line.
    North Sask has repeatedly asked if you can find any common ground with his views. Your answer is no, not unless you will abolish the treaties and start over, with nothing, as my immigrant father or grandparents did.
    but you don’t understand that you are part of the problem?
    with no respect,
    a different doug

22. To Different Doug –
    Hey, right on, you really are different. You asked earlier:
    “if all the “right” programs had been (or were to be) put in place, how close do you believe natives would be integrated into European Canadian culture? as close as Polish, German, Irish?”
    In my opinion, things would have been much better if education was the focus of the Aboriginal relationship with the government through the treaties. If the government’s intention would have been for education, not assimilation, even the residential school era would not have been such a disaster.
    The problem is that the Canadian side does not seem to approach the relationship with Aboriginal people ever with a pure heart, as an equal, and in the spirit of partnership.
    Its all down to individuals. What are the biases of the people in power, the Indian Agents, the politicians? Do they look at an Aboriginal person and see a dirty bum, a criminal, a lazy good for nothing? Do they racially profile Aboriginals without getting to know them? I know the answer is yes for many, many, non Aboriginals.
    So in answer to your question, sadly, if mistakes would not have been made in the relationship between Aboriginals and Canadians, Aboriginals would not any more integrated than we are today. The door is not open. This will not change until minds and hearts open. We would be better off, and not so dependant though.
    Education is the key for the non Aboriginal side as well. It is a travesty that the treaties are not taught in mainstream schools. That the story of the residential schools is not learned by every child in Canada. That city kids do not go on field trips to Indian Reserves and meet the kids there. Until that day comes, Mainstream and Aboriginal worlds will not be integrated.

23. Tomax,
    “You seem to have done well, house, wife, kids. That’s nice. Now how much of that was obtained by workable income? Don’t take it personally, general question I ask all Native debators.”
    Why do you ask that question of all native debators? Could it be you have a set opinion of how Aboriginals obtain anything? That, my friend, is racial profiling.
    There is no respect in that question. I should refuse to answer.
    But I’ve got nothing to hide, and I will tell you that my house was obtained through my own hard work. No help from anyone. I live and work off reserve and pay just as much tax as you do. (Probably more because I bet I make more). My wife and kids were obtained though a government program. JUST KIDDING!
    So now you tell me what you have and how you got it. I’ll bet it was inherited from your family or stolen from Aboriginals. (Really I don’t, I was just trying to make you see how racial profiling works.)

24. north sask,
    “the door is not open.”
    the thrust of the initial list was that a great many agencies are holding the door open, offering passage, with and without government support. but problems persist.
    because of prejudice alone?
    dd

25. DifDoug.
    Uh, re-read my posting. I wasn’t talking about my grandfather, but a legal clause.
    As for the fence, check your laws, while the property line may be the same, the fence line would remain, of course, if you decide for change, you would inherit the cost of replacing it.
    And I don’t remember saying “no” to NorthSask, so quit putting word in my mouth little troll.

26. Sask – What’s wrong with racial profiling? I will and have to take you at your word how you got your items, so good for you. Now, how do YOU help your culture do the same?
    Would you move back to the reserve? Or are you avocating that where ever you live you “own the land”. Whether it be on a reserve or downtown Moosebreath.
    Side note: Maybe you do pay more taxes than me, well, because I know how not pay as much, but may not mean you make more than me 😉

27. North Sask…. we both see alot of the same things. The question is… how to… persuade people to take action for themselves? Today I heard someone connected with foreign aid to some country in Africa… Uganda? Anyway, this person said “… the best way to help, is to STOP sending foreign aid.” Thinking outside the box, he was. Housing: How to keep houses in good repair? Perhaps have the people living in it build it. Pre-fab houses are easy to put together. A case of “provide the tools and the knowledge, and let them do the work. I’ll bet in most cases, it’ll be looked after. Anyway, there is common ground North Sask, as long as both sides are willing to give, take, and listen. Wrongs need to be righted, some things need to be reviewed or changed to reflect the times. Neither side should be “victim” nor “oppressor”.
    That documentary I watched was on Discovery or PBS, and dealt with the Hopi people I believe. Fascinating study if you are interested and can find it.

28. snookie
    “The question is… how to… persuade people to take action for themselves?”
    is the chance to join contemporary global economy as neophytes worth any effort?
    what does “action for themselves” mean in 2006 Manitoba?
    dd

29. Tomax – “what’s wrong with racial profiling?” – Give me a break. If you are that far gone, I won’t bother communicating with you further on this string and will be cntent to let you goose step into oblivion. By the way, you still have not told me what you have earned in life. And what’s a troll?
    Snookie – thanks for thinking and looking for common ground.
    Doug – yes, there is always hope.
    I have enjoyed debating on this string. Maybe see you on another one sometime.

30. Sask, well if you want to write me off as a goose stepper, that is your right. But if it helps, I’m the furthest thing from it.
    I guess I’m not very politically correct. Racial profiling is used by many police departments. Yes I’ll admit it does open the door for bigotry, but so does political correctness, as in reverse discrimination.

31. Oh sorry Sask, forgot answer your other questions.
    What “I have earned in life”. Uh big question. Let’s see I’ve earned being called a goose stepper, bigot, homophobic neocon.
    And that is on a good day.
    Otherwise, not sure what this p*ssing contest is about.
    If you mean what I’ve earned via Government handouts, umm, I was on a 16 weeks UIC STEP (Self TSomething Employment Program) when I moved down from Cold Lake to Calgary back in 1990/91, to which I have benefitted from it and actually am self-employed today.
    (Oh I forgot to mention I have been paying into the UIC program for about 15~20 years before losing a job (offer) after I moved to Calgary).
    Other than that, nothing else from gov’t handouts. Oh yeah, I lied, I got GST rebates when I made less than $21,000 in some years.
    Other question, “what’s a troll”?
    Oxford or blog version?
    Scientific name: Blogus-trollus
    Physical Characteristics: Since the common blog troll is a very elusive species and tends to emulate homo sapiens when confronted in Real Life (the habitat of homo sapiens) it has thus escaped proper description. It is said that its head is covered with green warts and its body largely resembles a cone.
    Color: Yellow-green, orange, red, black, white, purple and variations there-of.
    Habitat: The common blog troll can be found nosing around any weblog that allows the posting of comments.
    Belongs to the common troll group.
    The Common Blog Troll is a recently discovered species, most likely evolved from the Common Usenet Troll or perhaps its close cousin, the Common Forum Troll. Its primary source of nourishment is a response to its excrement, which is left in the form of a comment on any weblog which allows comments. Its best not to feed the troll, otherwise it might make itself at home and litter said blog with ever growing piles of excrement. Once the pest moves into a weblog the best way to eradicate it is by the use of “IP Ban” which comes free with many forms of weblog — if yours does not possess such feature you can always enlist the help of a local system administrator.
    It should be noted that even an IP ban is not entirely effective in removing the most persistent of trolls – as the more intelligent ones have the ability of using different IP addresses. In that case only vigillance, patience and time will get rid of the pest completely.
    http://www.unix-girl.com/blog/archives/2004/10/the_common_blog_troll.html

32. The native community has to start put blame where blame is due. On themselves. But if they admit to that they will have to change their lifestyle and that is the problem. It’s easier to live with no responsibility than change. Look in the mirror aboriginal people that is where the problem lies.

33. The problems aboriginal Canadians face, such as poverty, unemployment, alcohol and substance abuse, and crime, with its resulting high rate of aboriginals in our jails, will all end the day that aboriginal Canadians decide that they are going to end. This will come about when:
    – Native chiefs and elders decide that they will no longer tolerate open drunkeness, open lawbreaking, open firearms, and native kids routinely skipping school on their reserves. Let’s hear them say “No more! This all stops today!”
    – Aboriginal parents demand of their children that they attend school and learn marketable skills.
    – Aboriginal parents decide that they will be positive role models for their children to follow.
    – Aboriginals decide that alcohol and substance abuse and a room at the crowbar hotel are not natural, predestined and unavoidable.
    – Aboriginals decide that they will no longer think of themselves as helpless victims, and that the “Whitey has discriminated against us!” crutch will be said no more.
    – Aboriginals decide that welfare, crime and poverty are not natural ways of life. That they too, with some self discipline and effort, can learn marketable skills, gain employment, and the subsequent pride and self worth that comes with it.
    – Aboriginals decide they will take advantage of the educational and job skills programs offered at various levels of government. Can’t afford school? Check out the First Nations University of Canada scholarships (non-natives need not apply)
    http://www.firstnationsuniversity.ca/default.aspx?page=73
    – Aboriginal decide that they have more pride and self respect than to be dependant on government for everything from cradle to grave.
    In short, your fate is in your own hands. Decide for yourselves you will make your own lives better.