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Until this moment I have been forced to listen while media and politicians alike have told me "what Canadians think". In all that time they never once asked.
This is just the voice of an ordinary Canadian yelling back at the radio -
"You don't speak for me."
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Oh great, whenever you hear “human rights commision” you just know commonsence is about to challenged and be put in jeopardy of being replaced by its time to spread some misery around. Fare hikes anyone?
Don’t see how it would be possible to pay the Stewardesses the same amount as the Pilots. They can’t fly the plane, can they?
I’m all for equal pay for equal work, but……
Another stupid Politically Correct endeavour.
Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!
SCOC and HRC: Please, oh PLEASE rule in favor of the union!
Air Canada will go belly up and that will open up the market to more US carriers.
Result: Canada will have no competetive air carriers. period.
As someone who has worked for an airline, I can say that mechanics, pilots and FA’s aren’t even close in terms of having similar jobs, pardon me, in government speak the same “establishment,” What does that mean?
It appears that the flight attendants have hit the glass ceiling and instead of breaking through it they are going around smashing everyones windows.
It is odd that we leave in a society where we cherish our differences while demanding equality. We are either equal or different and last time I checked communism didn’t work so well.
Good Grief
Does anyone here truly believe that a Stewardess should make the same wage as a mechanic or a pilot?
Does anyone here think that getting you a drink or a pillow or an extra blankie because you are feeling cold, is as valuable as fixing a hydraulic line or landing a huge bird during an ice storm.
Does anyone here think that a Stewardess who knows how to point to all the exits after a two week course is as valuable as a pilot or mechanic who took years to learn what they know and must keep current on all updates.
And yes I did say Stewardess
The benchmark for ridiculous gets higher day by day.
I heard the union rep gal on Rutherford yesterday. What a joke. As a pilot (although not my career) it infuriates me that the cupcake schlepping the drink cart for the rubes in steerage would want to be paid the same amount as me.
In today’s dollars, by the time you complete your private, commercial, multi-engine, IFR and airline transport pilot ratings you’ve sacrificed many years and spent in the neighborhood of $150,000.00. Yes, one hundred fifty THOUSAND dollars. And that only gets you to the minimum required hours before an airline would even consider looking at you. In addition to your training, throw in a university degree in engineering as a “must have” on your C.V. and you’ll rank just a pube higher than the recent immigrant that sweeps out the hangar.
If Muffin and Barbie thinks this investment is comparable to a couple hundred bucks at the Clinique counter and rehersing “thanks for flying with us, bu-bye” then let me off this planet and ship me back to the gamma quadrant.
Hmmm, what’s harder to do…..apply masquera and nurse the odd blister from wearing pumps that fit a little tight or trying to stay on the glideslope in heavy rain and lightning with a 40 knot crosswind and the cheif pilot critiquing your approach from the jump seat behind you?
Equal pay for equal value, my hairy ass. Pay equity is nothing but sissy whining by those who want a fast track to the head of the trough with no concept of paying one’s dues.
Good grief.
Pilot training: multiple years and courses, probably in the order of $1 million to get to the First officer seat in commercial heavy. extensive Government testing – really tough tests + very tight physical/health requirements.
Aero Engineer (they are not “mechanics” ) minimum . . 2+ years tech school + extensive “equipment specifi” certification courses and very tough tests.
Flight Attendant – what is it, High School Leaving + a six week course ?? Maybe a bit longer ??
Not putting them down, just comparing the time/money/effort needed to “get in”
Kate–I know this may have been mentioned late last week, but I have been quite busy. Is the price tag on the election been tallied yet? Just curious–
him
Unless Marnie & Bonnie belongs to the machinists union, they’re both in deep trouple for even thinking about touching those engines.
Back in the 60’s K.C. Irving , then owner of Eastern Provincial Airlines who were on strike, said that the pilots were just a bunch of overpaid bus drivers.
Plus �a change…
In defense of flight attendants, they do go through quite a bit more training than serving cookies and point out the exits. They go through a ton of safety training, which *must* be updated yearly. In the event of an emergency, the flight attendants are extremely well prepared to save your life.
That said, they don’t deserve the same money as a pilot. Not even close. I don’t think you’ll find too many flight attendants who’d realistically argue that they do, and I know a couple (but they work for WestJet, where common sense is #1).
This just the case of some militant feminist in a union going crazy.
Go git ’em Eskimo!
This case should be easy to solve except for the fact the Supreme Court will get a chance to show their activism once again. Simply take a group of flight attendants over to the Air Canada flight simulators and ask them to fly an Airbus or Boeing including various emergency procedures.
Next, take a group of pilots to the cabin of an airplane and see if they can reheat a meal and serve coffee. Then do the same with the mechanics and attendants.
I have a friend on the Calgary Fire Department and was amazed by the animosity that the men showed to the new female firefighters.
But after hearing about the many times that they had to stop what they were doing to help the shorter and weaker women turn a valve or lift a heavy piece of equipment, I began to understand.
A solution has been found. When a women takes maternity leave, a desk job can usually be found for her and they seldom return to the frontline.
Consequently CFD staffing levels are growing nicely with the city’s population growth. Too bad it’s not with the guys that actually put out the fires.
Doug,
“Result: Canada will have no competetive air carriers. period.”
Ever hear of Westjet?
David, for the record Harry Steele was the owner of Eastern Provincial Airline (EPA) in the early 70’s during the strike and the money quote was ‘pilots were oversexed bus drivers’. I wonder who they were having sex with??
I wish airlines would opt out of using flight attendents altogether. Do you get a bus attendant while riding the Greyhound?
What safety do they provide us? We get a video showing the safety features of the plane. If the plane crashes we are all dead. If someone has a heart attack while in flight, I will bet a million dollars someone on board knows CPR.
They don’t feed us anymore and could simply install a Coke machine with drinks (which will weigh less than the average Air Canada flight attendant. Have the honour system for pretzels. Hand out newspapers at the front counter of the gate (which they already do in many airports).
We have had airline passenger service for almost 70 years. The novelty of flying is gone. Everyone knows how to fly. The novelty of flight attendants should be gone too. That way they could pass the cost savings to me or give me a goddamn meal again.
As Donald Trump once said: you’re fired.
“Canada’s top court has given the country’s human rights commission the go-ahead to investigate whether flight attendants should be paid the same as pilots and airline mechanics.”
Teddy Kennedy’s wet dream.
This is excellent news. My wife is a Lab Tech.
Most Lab Techs are female.
Most Surgeons are male.
Both work in the same “establishment” of healthcare
Surgeons make way more than Lab Techs.
Therefore, Lab Tech pay is descriminatory vs women.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
HAHAHA.. and those idiots spent 7yrs in training!
I guess this will spread to the Health industry next.Auxiliary staff nurses aides nurses doctors surgeons.i suppose shift work will all be considered the same too and do away with northern allowance.Buzz must be warming his hands
Meet Rosalie Abella, inventor of the hideous concept of “employment equity” in Canada:
“Abella, who is considered one of Canada’s foremost experts in human rights law, has also been a chair of the Ontario Labour Relations Board and the Ontario Law Reform Commission, and a board member of the Ontario Human Rights Commission. She was also a member of the judicial inquiry on the Donald Marshall case.
Abella was the author of the 1984 federal Royal Commission on Equality in Employment, in which she coined the term employment equity, a strategy for reducing barriers in employment faced by women, non-whites, people with disabilities, and Aboriginal peoples in Canada.
Abella’s appointment was not welcomed by Canadians opposed to “judicial activism”. It is felt by some that she is too liberal and will greatly favor the expansion of Charter rights.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalie_Abella
David Warren on Abella:
“Canada’s newly appointed Supreme Court Justice Rosalie Abella might adopt this as her own judicial motto. She is an embodiment of a class of people who genuinely believe themselves to be smarter than the rest of us, to be ahead on the historical curve. So far ahead, and moving so fast, that they cannot even hear the patter of the people running to keep up with them.”
http://www.canadianjusticereviewboard.ca/Judgement%20calls%20by%20David%20Warren.htm
Judge Abella, who has spent only a very few months in the actual practice of law, has climbed up the political / legal ropes based on her reputation as a “human rights” activist. In fact, many of her decisions were based not on any established law, but rather on her own feminist ideology:
“In May 1998, Madam Justice Rosalie Abella on the Ontario Court of Appeal, decided in the Rosenberg case that homosexual partners are entitled to survivor benefits equivalent to legally married heterosexual couples under the Income Tax Act. In making this decision, Judge Abella ignored the 1995 decision of the Supreme Court of Canada in Egan and Nesbit, which held that the word ‘spouse’ applied to married couples only because of their unique contribution to society – namely by giving birth to and raising children.”
http://www.realwomenca.com/analyses/analyses_01.htm
Is their a reason why SCC judges are paid more than their clerks?
or for that matter, the dog catchers that also work for the govenment?
I know this wouldn’t be covered under it, but just think of the damage the SCC could do if there was no Notwithstanding clause.
Key word from Pravda/CBC’s “listen-up dummies” article is “equal” and its corollary, equality. The SCC is a socialist engine driving the liberal-socialist agenda: domination by socialism. Resist. >>
An implicit assumption in liberal-socialism�s devotion to equality is that the natural state of any society is equality of income and other conditions. No historical or archeological evidence exists to support this assertion, which nonetheless is characterized as scientific. It is perfectly evident to all observers that there are vast inherent differences in people�s abilities and interests. Some are born more intelligent than others, some have superior athletic abilities, and others have the capacities to create and run businesses that add to the wealth of the whole of society.
Liberal-socialism must ignore these empirical facts and postulate that people�s accomplishments are the result, not of individual talent, but of the society in which they live. Thus, implicitly in socialistic theory, people�s incomes are merely loans from the government, which reserves the right to reclaim any or all of it at its whim.>>
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article4472.html
Marc:
You are definitely on to something. Using the “logic” applied in this case, it is arguable that SCC justices and the law clerk or court reporter are working in the same “establishment”…ergo…pay equity!!!
Now all we have to determine is if the clerks get $380K pay & benefit package, or the Supremes get $50K.
When I was still a police officer and the Supremes were coming out with ridiculous and activist interpretations of the Charter, the standing joke around police & prosecutor circles was:
What do you call a lawyer in Canada who knows virtually nothing about criminal law or criminal investigative procedures?
Answer (of course): A justice of the Supreme Court of Canada
Cal,
I know, WestJet is great. I use them. But a dumbass ruling like this would force them into a dirt nap too.
Check please warrenkinsella – ha is fun just started!!!
FLASH………….
Brian Tobin has just announced that he does not intend to run for leadership of the Liberanos…
Latest information roundup is that the only people in Canada who have not yet ruled out running for the leadership are (a) Fred, the homeless guy that sleeps beside the bank machine on main street and (b) Belinduhh
Travelling on a airliner takes effort, the passengers should be redesignated as employees essentially they are required to perform certain funtions when riding a airliner, therefore because they certainly work in the same establishment as stewardesses they should get pay equity with the stewardesses.
since pay equity works both ways, i suggest that supreme court judges get paid the same as their staff…….. lets be generous…..say $55,000.00
I agree with John, get rid of stewardesses. If we have an air marshall riding on every plane then we dont need anyone else to maintain law and order. If passengers need a meal then have a bistro bag lunch ready that they pick up as they go to the plane. This was(is) used by American Airlines and was a great alternative. Personally I have not felt the need to eat on a plane unless you are doing a flight longer than 6 hours.
Pay equity is another one of those weasel words that’s supposed to make us feel warm and fuzzy. Where the real cost of it will come in is the establishment of the bureaucratic layer that determines which jobs are equal to other jobs that are totally unrelated. Anonologue referred to Real Women in his post. They have been fighting against pay equity for over 20 years. Especially in the private sector. It will kill small business.
Okay, I’m going to get flamed for this one.
FLIGHT ATTENDANTS (screw that ‘stewardess’ crap) do far more than just fluff pillows and hand out drinks. If you doubt that, do a bit of research into a) what the job really entails, and b) who got their throats slit on 9/11.
After flying MANY, MANY thousands of miles, and seeing how the ‘traveling public’ treats flight attendants, I’d say that they are entitled to a whopping large salary. Having to deal with drunks, jerks, and dimwits is a daily occurence. These are the people that you, the folks sitting in rows 1-99, rely upon to remain cool and controlled in the event of a crisis, direct you to an exit, instruct you on emergency landing procedures, and get you an aspirin when you have a headache. (Yeah – they do that.)
I won’t try to weigh who is worth more, pilots, mechanics, or flight attendants. But if anyone thinks that they’d be able to deal with a major emergency without flight attendants – I’d like the name of their drug dealer, must have some really quality stuff. (And yes, I’ve had some emergencies come up in the air – and it wasn’t the guy in the cockpit that took care of us. It was the folks there in the aisles. And I’m grateful they were there.)
Pay equity… So the union convinces some of it’s members that the union should persue this asinine notion. Why? Because union dues are a percentage of your pay. Your pay goes up, so do the dues. Therefore more money in the union’s kitty. Let’s face it, union’s are money-machines. Hell, the mob knew that 30 yrs ago! If you have any doubts… float a paycut past the union and listen to the howls from the union heads. That would put a serious crimp in their socializing and partying. No more annual meetings in Vegas :-O
hehehe… ya just gotta love the image the “welcome aboard…” announcement puts in yer mind 😛
So a nurses aide is worth the same as an MD?
A janitor sweeping out the Commons is worth the same as an MP?
Same establishment yes?
OK, OK, the janitor/MP example was a stretch…
I have an idea that would resolve this problem once and for all.
We transfer ownership of all property to the state. Noone gets paid anything, but everyone gets a free unheated one-room tenement apartment and is entitled to line up for a handful of flyblown “food”.
Very important people (such as me who thought up the idea) also get a luxury dwelling, which I like to call a “dacha”, out in the country.
No more whining about “pay equity”.
Just might work!
joey w
I agree that being a flight attendant is not an easy job.
It’s a good job for young adults that provides an opportunity for adventure and travel. But who would want to put up with that crap in their 40’s and 50’s. That’s why Asian airlines are much more pleasant than most Western airlines, that are staffed by geriatric trolley dollies with union seniority and too many years in a basically boring job.
As far as getting training on getting ones throat slit, I once sent a proposal to the Vancouver School Board’s Department of Continuing education.
“How to become a victim of Islamist Fanaticism.”
I received a form letter reply that it would considered it if they received enough requests.
Happy to say that I?m still waiting.
Get rid of the flight attendants, they’re mostly an irritation anyway…put vending machines for drinks and maybe put some kind of security personnel like air marshals or cops for emergencies.
D
I think you all took a stupid pill this morning. Your not seeing this through NDP certified rose coloured glasses. We need the supreme court to rule in favour of the flight attendants. Once thats in place then we can quit work and go on welfare. As this is feeding from the same traugh as the politicans we should automatically get the same pay and retirement bennifits. To any politico who objects to this we need merely point out, under these same conditions they should get the same pay as the primedictator. As they are addictated to the traugh they will acquiesce (its spelt right I looked it up) quickly. Ofcourse this would also mean a raise for the rest of us.
After reading all the comments I really think the most important point about this decision, if it can be called that, is not about the decision its self but about those who made it. In the true mode of those that appointed them, like minds indeed, and just as pathetic.
If there was an Oscar for blog incoherency, CAW would surely be nominated
Why do so many people not understand the basic principal of capatialism; no one gets paid what they “diserve” or what their work is “worth” they get paid what they can get.
As an independant contracting computer programmer I recieved $45 per hour straight out of university (after two years it is $75). Is this what I deserve or what my work is worth worth? No, my work is really no harder than a Janitor’s job but my skill set is much much rarer and thus I can ask for (and recieve) more money.
Now a flight attendents skill set is pretty easy to come by; not to (completely) steriotype flight attendents, but you can go into a mall and throw a rock in any direction and find a reasonably attractive woman, who is sensitive and nice, who is willing to take crap from anyone for $10-$15 per hour. How hard is it to find someone who is certified to fly a jumbo jet and has a clean flight record? 1 in 1000? 1 in 10,000? I really don’t know but I’m assuming it is unlikely that the malls are packed with them and that they’re willing to fly these planes for $10-$15 per hour.
Not too much emphasis on written language competence at your university, eh NoOne
What is the problem with you people? Don’t you know that there is an endless supply of money in this country and giving people more money is just something that they deserve! The bad corporations that employ these people are just making way too much money and have warehouses full of the stuff to give out if the SCC decides that all people should be paid the same as the highest wage earner! Stop complaining, what harm could there be??
Diction aside, NoOne’s right. The whole premise of “pay equity” — euphemism for “central planning” flies in the face of sustainable economic forces. In a free market wages are determined by the added value created by that labour and the scarcity of it. The flight attendants’ union is essentially co-opting the human rights commission (an Orewellian moniker if ever there was one) to act as a de facto central planning commission. As there’s no end to the number of groups that can potentially claim pay equity, better start queing up for the toillet paper!
joey w…without the “guys/gals” up front, you wouldn’t even be in the air!!! What a load of malarky. And hey. Want to talk “pay equity”? A hooker screws the public just as much as a politician. Get your 10 grand out boys and girls for the next one!!
A plane was taking off from Kennedy Airport. After it reached a comfortable cruising altitude, the captain made an announcement over the
intercom, “Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Welcome to Flight Number 293, nonstop from New York to Los Angeles. The weather
ahead is good and, therefore, we should have a smooth and uneventful flight.
Now sit back and relax… OH, MY GOD!” Silence followed, and after a few minutes, the captain came back on the intercom and said, “Ladies and
Gentlemen, I am so sorry if I scared you earlier. While I was talking to you, the flight attendant accidentally spilled a cup of hot coffee in my
lap. You should see the front of my pants!” A passenger in Coach yelled, “That’s nothing. You should see the back of mine!”
joey w,
While I agree with you that Flight Attendants are necessary on commercial flights, I disagree that they are entitled to a “whopping large salary”, especially not a salary nearing what a pilot or mechanic earn.
It seems to me that the fundamental difference between these jobs is the amount of responsibility involved. The pilot is ultimately (and directly) responsible for the safety of all passengers on the flight, as well as for the actions of his crew. In an emergency, it is the pilot who is personally responsible for the lives of up to 450 people.
Similarly, a mechanic is personally responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft and signs or stamps his name to that effect, after having received the authority to do so from Transport Canada. If there is a mechanical failure during a flight, it will be investigated, and if fault is found, the mechanic is liable.
Having to deal with drunks, jerks and dimwits may be annoying, but in the end, flight attendants make no important decisions regarding the flight or the maintenance of the aircraft, i.e., anything requiring responsibility. They simply facilitate safety procedures and (sometimes) make the flight more enjoyable.