A Toronto Sun editorial asks the obvious in the wake of Paul Coffins curfew for pleading guilty to 15 counts of fraud – “Is anyone ever going to be seriously punished for AdScam?”
Here in Saskatchewan, of course, we experienced our own highly publicized poltiical scandal in the 1980’s. In view of the severity of Paul Coffin’s sentence for defrauding the Canadian taxpayers (you can’t call it defrauding “the government” when the government is an accomplice) of $3 million, I thought it might be interesting to review those convicted and jailed over a total of $838,000 in misspent funds in our own province during the 1980’s;
– Lorne McLaren, former MLA: 3� years.
– John Scraba, former communications director: two years, $12,000 in restitution.
– John Gerich, former cabinet minister: two years, $12,264 in restitution.
– Michael Hopfner, former MLA: 18 months, $56,000 in restitution.
– Eric Berntson, former Saskatchewan deputy premier: one year; resigned Senate seat.
– Ralph Katzman, former MLA: one year, $100,000 in restitution
Source CBC archives.
Of course, unlike most of those listed above, Paul Coffin isn’t a politician. In fact, no politicians at all have been charged in the Adscam debacle, nor has there been any investigation into broader questions of inappropriate political acquisition of public funds outside of Gomery’s narrow mandate – despite the fact that the triggering event for the Governor General’s audit was a whistleblower complaint by Public Works employee Alan Cutler – who in 1995�questioned a $15,000 a month retainer that Paul Martin’s Finance Department was attempting to push through on behalf of his personal leadership campaign team the firm Earnscliffe.
Of course, the same provincial NDP premier whose party has flogged the “Devine” corruption horse in every election race since, had no problem at all endorsing the faltering minority government this spring. Apparently, Calvert suffers no twangs of ethical hypocrisy in standing shoulder to elbow with corrupt federal Liberals – so long as the cheques keep coming.
Reminscent of an old W.C. Fields joke, Lorne Calvert has established what he is. You can’t blame Saskatchewan taxpayers for wondering if there’s a secret price list.
Steal one diamond ring and claim severe emotional distress.
Defraud government of millions of dollars and say your sorry.
No criminal records, no time served, minimal restitution.
Anybody want to argue that there arent two sets of laws in this country?
Sinclair Stevens went to jail for less than this fucking outrage! Sorry for the profanity but Im really pissed off right now.
It never seems to get any better ,…unless you’re a librano$$$$ scum sucking dirtbag.
The stinking corpse of our government is getting way too RANK!!
Lets bury it were the dogs can’t dig it up again!
From “I am Also Canadian”:
So Coffin pleads guilty, and hmmm�gets off Scot-free. Go figure. The Mafia is green with envy�they have to pay off Judges. The liberals�they ARE the Judges!
‘nuf said
No fines, no restitution to the People of Canada whom he stole from. Typical Librano justice for the party faithful. Just don’t let any of us get caught with our hands anywhere near the cookie jar because there would be serious hell to pay.
AdScam Martin says: Screw off, canadians, suckers. We have the divine right to rule. We are the “Star Chamber” government. We are the lords, the masters, the elite. You canadians are our wallet. Screw off, suckers. Our agenda is for you to shut up and pay the taxes we impose on you. After all, M. Coffin and Librano$$$$$$$$$$ deserve the cash.>
Martin says scandal has been hard on politicians
Prime Minister Paul Martin speaks to civil servants Tuesday in Gatineau, Que.
The fallout from the sponsorship scandal has been hard on politicians and public servants, but will not deter the Liberals from their agenda, Prime Minister Paul Martin said Tuesday.
In a speech to civil servants in Gatineau, Que., the PM said the government is determined to strengthen the integrity and accountability of government.
He said the issues related to the Gomery inquiry are “unacceptable aberrations in a public sector that is honest, talented and committed to Canadians.”>>> more
http://www.rapp.org/url/?25VND4ZQ ctv.ca
Yes, but,…but.. y’know, Coffin is one a us guys…. eh?
There’s that term Whistle-Blower again. If the act had any penalty and enforcement provision at the time. Adscam would have come to light 10 years ago when it was only hundreds of millions not billions in size.
Fits in this thread… Did Maz2 mention this yet?
Head: Repeal Security legislation, papers Urge
Today’s Ottawa Citizen, Sept 20/05 by James Gordon.
*Instances of Canadian Journalists putting National Security at risk are as common as invasions by space aliens.*‘3s TG
Kelly:
Re: No fines, restitution.
Untrue, there wasn’t a fine but he has paid back $1,000,000 to the government and is now deeply in debt (not that I give a shit). I expect he blew the stolen funds.
http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=a21a7945-70de-4d29-8911-df41a8f6bf8f
The laws and punishment for all whire collar crimes are insane in this country. Remember Bre-X; Felderhof is enjoying his fraudulantly gained millions while relaxing at his mansion in the Cayman Islands. Apparently a stock market scam of that proportion isn’t a criminal offense such that the Ontario Securities Commission can’t have him extradited. Maybe a contarct on him is more appropriate.
Oops – don’t get me wound up on this country’s “justice” system.
Quebec ex-MNA, Richard Holden, commits suicide? (assisted?)? Find “Richard Holden” in the following: find “Mafia hitman”. Find: “chauffeur”.
Chauffeur is one busy trade, right Pierre?>>
Ex-hitman hid by working as guard at Mtl. school
Updated: Tue. Oct. 19 2004 11:32 PM ET
A fugitive and former hired assassin has been found living in Montreal, providing security for one of the city’s prestigious schools.
Real Simard, who admitted to conducting “hits” on behalf of the Cotroni Mafia clan during the 1980s, was working as a security guard at College Jean de Brebeuf before his arrest last Friday.
The former Jesuit school includes Pierre Elliott Trudeau and Robert Bourassa among some of its most famous graduates.
Simard, 53, had been working at the private school for the past nine months, using the pseudonym Charles Bouchard.
College spokesperson Diane de Champlain said school officials had done all they could to check the man’s background before he was hired, but their background check had failed to reveal his criminal past.
In 1986, Simard pleaded guilty to five homicides committed in Montreal and Toronto, as part of a deal to testify against alleged Montreal mob boss Frank Cotroni, who Simard said ordered the hits.
Simard was paroled in the early 1990s, but that parole was suspended in 1999 when police found he had violated parole conditions by using false identification.
An arrest warrant was issued but Simard had been on the run ever since.
Police say Simard spent some of the last few years in South America, where he married and had a child before returning to Montreal.
The police search was invigorated four years ago, when he appeared on a Quebec TV network to promote the release of his second book.
Simard was finally arrested without incident last Friday morning.
In his first book, an autobiography, Simard revealed he was not new to the ins and outs of working under an assumed name. In The Nephew — The Making of a Mafia Hitman, Simard confessed that he used to work for both the Bloc Quebecois and Parti Quebecois.
Simard said he used the name Michel Roselli when he was PQ MNA Richard Holden’s chauffeur for six months in 1993. He later became Holden’s political adviser.
Simard also served as an organizer for Kim Beaudoin, a Bloc candidate in the 1993 federal election that saw Jean Chretien become prime minister.
Now in the custody of Corrections Canada, Simard will wait up to 30 days before his case will be put to the National Parole Board.
� Copyright 2002-2006 Bell Globemedia Inc.
http://www.rapp.org/url/?7XLJTG9I ctv.ca
Sinc Stevens never went to jail. In fact, he was never even charged criminally.
Two sets of judges for Liberals, and two sets of facts for Conservatives.
Secret decoder: Anytime Martin says something is “unacceptable” it really means it is acceptable.
Mark
Ottawa
Something in the moral demographic of this country has changed forever. It’s impossible to comprehend how crooked the average person has become. I mean, ccording to the recent poll, the Liberal’s numbers have recently shot up in Alberta.
It is truly disgusting that this country is full of pinheads who STILL VOTE LIBERAL after listening to the testimony at Gomery. Apparently, we have become so “international” in character that we not only tolerate third-world style corruption, we actually support it.
Thank-you, P.E.T. for teaching us the gallic shrug.
Say goodby to the country as we know it. If this country was a community of people like my grandparents, the Liberals would be polling at about two percent.
If I hear anyone bragging about the character of Canadians vis a vis` America, I am going to puke my guts out.
Time for the west to get out.
I don’t know what further evidence the Canadian public need to see to realize we are living in an unaccoutable statist oligarchy…what Mark Steyn referred to as a “kleptocrcy” of the elite ruling class.
Coffin’s conditional sentence for a captial crime of this magnitude (actually a conspiratorial crime) is an abomination…an open display of the “us and them” justice system…they don’t even attempt to cover the gross inequity of justice between the connected political class and the plebians in this sentencing….what do you suppose whould happen to you or I if we stole 1.5 million from the government? Why doesn’t the Kleptocracy be open about it’s established MO and just reward Coffin publicly with a cozy diplomatic post on the Riviera for service rendered to the Librano cartel.
No one in the Political elite and its patronage cartel is subject to incarceration for state crimes….this was explored in dozens of incidents where govenment officials, ministers and political insiders escape justice in Paul Palango’s book “Above the Law”.
We see that since the RCMP had it’s arms-length independence of government removed by a liberal staute which made the head of the national police force (responsible for investigating crimes by governemnt), reportable to a superior who happens to be a cabinet minister/politician of the government. Since that time the relationship between RCMP and government friends and enemies has become very incestuous.
With Coffin’s little justice reward we have to question how deep the kleptocracy’s patronage cartel has infected the judiciary as well.
Yes, I miss the good old days when Canada was governed by John “I must have another $10,000 for my election” A. MacDonald.
Frankly, I think Coffin got off a bit light, but I don’t think it’s an intentional miscarriage of justice.
Since Sinclair Stevens was not convicted nor even charged, the conclusion would appear to be… er, that he was not a criminal in any way.
Does Peter Lyin’ actually have the evidence to convict him? Why then has he suppressed it for years?
Or is this the Liberal approach to equality? We must treat the innocent exactly as if they were guilty? Problem is, the guilty, as we plainly see, go unpunished.
Perhaps if any of us ever face similar charges as Mr. Coffin, you only have to remind the presiding judge that because of the precedence of the Coffin case, all you are required to do is pay back two thirds of the booty, appear remorseful, send out your C.V. to the local leftist university and violla! you too can avoid a stay at the crowbar hotel.
Extra points if you’re queer eye kinda guy. Simply cite “stress” as your defense and it’s another get out of jail free card to keep in your wallet next to your Librano party membership.
EBT: The point I was making was that those like Colin who went apoplectic (that means very mad) over Coffin while asserting that Sinc Stevens went to jail for less are probably a) short-tempered and b) in need of a lesson or two in history.
I don’t believe Sinc was criminally guilty of anything. At best he showed some recklessness as a cabinet minister. But you’ve probably stopped reading by now.
Eskimo:
Homophobic digs are particularly classy.
Peter
Ptomaine poisoning courtesy of Joe-KKK-Volpe and Jacky-the-Dipper- Layton: Don’t they know that death begins in the colon?>>>
NDP wants private medicare banned
OTTAWA (CP) – NDP Leader Jack Layton says his party will bring in a bill this fall to ban private medicare. Full Story
Volpe bills taxpayers for meals
OTTAWA (CP) – Immigration Minister Joe Volpe was just doing his job when he billed taxpayers nearly $7,000 for restaurant meals during a 11-week period last spring, his spokesman says.>>>
cnews>>>
Don’t forget dear Svend–he got of with ‘community service’ for his theft.
But let us try not paying the ‘tax’ that Ottawa demands of us every year and every day(GST) and see how lenient the Judges are with us. We don’t have to steal to be considered criminal–we just have to try to keep some of our hard earned money that the Liberals think rightly belong to them.
I thought that criminals had the proceeds of crime seized–guess not if you are a politician–he pays some back but nothing is done with the proceeds from that money–Injustice in Canada–we pay, they play
Not an intentional miscarriage of justice Peter? Are you implying Coffin accidentally stole 1.5 million or the judge unintentionally let the scumbag off?
No, I am saying that the judge thought it sufficient that he repaid $1 million, that he is on limited house arrest, and that he is sufficiently remorseful.
Why don’t you demonstrate to me that he got off easy compared to the average sentence for an equivalent crime.
Note, a sufficient response won’t constitute you calling me a Librano, using a lot of dollar signs, saying corrupt a million times, and asserting some conspiracy between the RCMP and the Liberals. I’d like to see you demonstrate that this penalty is out of line.
Peter
How about an average taxpayer “forgets” to tell UIC about earnings for a couple of months. Say a max of $2000 “stolen”, then a fine of $9500 slapped on top of the repayment of ALL of the funds “stolen”. Certainly not an equivalent crime, but wouldn’t a fine and pay back all the misappropriated funds make a lot more sense?
That’s not the question, Kelly. The question is what is the average penalty for an equivalent offense.
Peter
“The question is what is the average penalty for an equivalent offense.” Are you on drugs Peter? How about Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz, the former Tyco execs who are now facing 8 to 25 years. Martha Stewart got worse for just lying to a Fed.
Paul Coffin scammed $1.5 million of your dollars and only has to give back $1 mill and all is even? That’s pretty good rate of return, eh?
I ended up on the wrong side of Revenue Canada when I retired and the government accountant gave me bad advice and the wrong tax rate. The ferocity in which they came after me was astounding. It was only a few grand but they sure as hell didn’t forgive the taxes owed or late fees like some Liberano$ Ethics Commissioner either.
If you don’t think that Canada’s government is rife with corruption then you are a bigger fool than I thought.
The average penalty for theft over $500. is 5 years or more in a federal pen.
Free: please give a citation for that. You are most certainly wrong.
Texas Canuck: Thanks for the use of the dollar sign, two American examples, and one anecdote. You’ll have to do better.
Okay Peter, how about this:
http://www.criminal-lawyer.on.ca/penalty-dishonesty.html
Crimial code section; Fraud over $5,000 section 380(1)(a), max penalty 10 YEARS not grounded on a school night!
Honestly, you are probably suited to be a Canadian judge with your outlook. Then maybe those pesky parolled murderers can stay at your halfway house.
This agreement has been signed, sealed, delivered under/using the Civil Code of Quebec.
Canada is now a vassal state of Quebec.>>>>
http://www.pwgsc.gc.ca/sponsorship/text/2005-08-agreement-e.html
Signed August 21, 2005
TRANSACTION AGREEMENT entered into on the dates and in the places mentioned hereinafter:
BETWEEN:
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA, on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada, c/o the Department of Justice Canada, 200 Ren�-L�vesque Blvd. West, 5th Floor, City of Montr�al, Province of Quebec, H2Z 1X4, herein acting and represented by Mr. Henri B�ridian, his representative, duly authorized to act herein.
(hereinafter called �the Government of Canada�)
AND:
2794101 CANADA INC., body corporate legally incorporated under the Canada Business Corporations Act, doing business under the name COMMUNICATION COFFIN, having its head office at 716 Taschereau Blvd., City of Ste-Th�r�se, Province of Quebec, J7E 4E1, herein acting and represented by Paul R. Coffin, President, duly authorized to act herein pursuant to a resolution adopted by the sole director on August 11, 2005.
(hereinafter called �Communication Coffin�)
AND:
PAUL R. COFFIN, businessman, residing and domiciled at 716 Taschereau Blvd., City of Ste Th�r�se, Province of Quebec, J7E 4E1
……………
This Agreement constitutes a contract of transaction pursuant to articles 2631 et seq. of the Civil Code of Qu�bec>>>>
Conclusion: Canada is now a vassal state of Quebec.
Thanks Texas Canuck. You are as adept at dodging a question as Scott Brison. Let me ask this very, very clearly: What is the average sentence for a crime equivalent to Coffin’s? Not what is the maximum, or what is the minimum. Please tell me, what is the average?
If a miscarriage of justice has occurred, then Coffin will have received a sentence far below the average. But, until now, none of you have demonstrated this. You’ve just slobbered all over your keyboards.
Maz2: Thanks for pointing out that this case occurred in Quebec. Very helpful.
Okay Mr Smarty Pants, as I don’t have a law student working for me or the time to research all the cases of fraud and sentences, then YOU tell me what is average. For both one count and fourteen counts. It sure as hell ain’t a slap on the willy and $500,000 forgivable government loan. Or are you going to play the Artful dodger????
No, you see, I don’t know if he got off lightly. Indeed, higher up I indicate that I think he probably got off a bit easy. But, the point is, I don’t know for sure, so before I start popping bloods vessels and claiming all sorts of nefarious plots, I’d like to know the average. Others shoudl feel the same.
You see, I think making intelligent inference sometimes relies on facts, rather than following gut feelings and others’ baseless accusations.
This sentence only serves as a reminder that our system needs an overhaul. The intent was to defraud the public and get away with it. Gomery never did get into the issue of how ball gowns ended up being paid for by the taxpayer, or watches chosen by Chretien’s wife. They were touched on, but nobody followed the trail. Even the accountants admitted they were limited in their forensic audit. I’m hoping Gomery will release the report in its entirety on his website, or we will never seen anything more than an executive summary. CTV is reporting that they are already uncovering discrepancies in Volpe’s billings, and his aides in some cases were eating different meals at different restaurants at the same time. Lots to dine out on here. And Pettigrew is far from cleared. Thanks to the anti-Liberal media factions in Quebec, it just keeps coming.
Peter Loewen,
I don’t know if this is “average” but how about Conrad Black’s former buddy, I think his name is Radner? ONE Count of mail fraud = 29 months in the slammer AND a $250,000.00 fine.
I think in Coffin’s case, the judge used a precedent of Jean Chretin’s, “So what if a few million dollars got stolen”?
Here’s one for you since you like to quibble over sentences. A pregnant First Nations lady in her third trimester made fraudlent claims for five weeks. She got caught. Justice was swift. One week in jail for every bad claim. Her baby was born in jail. Too bad Coffin couldn’t get knocked up, get really hungry and make a bad EI claim!
Wow Old Squid. You take the cake. First, you misidentify Black’s partner and miss key facts in the case – he embezzled up to $32 million, and his sentence is light because he is cooperating with the prosecution. Second, you then cite a case with – wait for it – a Native woman who made false EI claims. How that is relevant to Coffin’s case I don’t know, but I applaud you for making the effort. I won’t make any suggestions as to why you chose a native women, but well done for adding nothing to the discussion of whether Coffin’s sentence was fair or not.
Peter Loewen,
I posted the comment about the First Nations lady to show that there are TWO sets of justice in Canada. One for ordinary Canadians and one for friends of the Liberal Party and I can’t see where you think that Coffin’s theft was different from her’s. I’d be more inclined to forgive her because her theft was based on desperation for herself and her unborn child, whereas Coffin’s was based on pure greed, you ignorant prick! Second, I wasn’t sure what Conrad’s buddy’s name was so I put a question mark behind it. I know Conrad’s buddy made a deal with the prosecutor, that’s why he faced only ONE charge. He still got hit hard. As for contributing to the debate posed by your question… Your question itself is fraudulent. This is the first sentence handed out in ADSCAM, if I am to believe CTV, so HOW IN THE FUCK CAN THERE BE AN AVERAGE?
If you put this guy in jail where he belongs he might start talking about the real crooks. Watch the weasel Mr Dithers he is one slippery customer. He appointed Gomery so who does Gomery owe his allegence to. Fall and Winter elections are bad for the reigning elite so do you think its any accident that the outcome will be delayed.
Old Squid:
I am confused. You ask me how I can see any difference in their crimes, and then you list several differences. They seem quite evident to me.
I am not sure my question is fraudulent, as I did not pose it with the intention to deceive and then realize material gain. But, in case you didn’t notice, Coffin was charged in a Canadian court, under normal Canadian law. He wasn’t charged in a special “Adscam” court. Accordingly, we can look at crimes of equivalent size and discover an average. Would it be easier for you if I explained it in ALL CAPS?
some statist apologist whines:”Yes, I miss the good old days when Canada was governed by John “I must have another $10,000 for my election” A. MacDonald. ”
What the frig does this have to do with the facts as they are in the Coffin sentance???….idiot!
A tad to light for your compromised sense of justice is it? I bet you spend a lot of time rationalizing the sale of your soul to an unworthy political cabal.
Damn, it looks like I’ve been ‘moonie baited’.
It starts with a “I think…” and ends up with me (and others) looking up all kinds of facts and figures to justify our perspective when in fact the moonie doesn’t have any empirical data at all.
Sigh, I should just go and start getting ready for Rita. Hasta la vista, y’all
WL Mackenzie Redux: no, not really. I was paid $100 million in taxpayers dollars, so I am quite satisfied. I thought I would know how to spend it better than you.
Tony,
Bang on Brother!
I can’t think of words harsh enough to describe how mad I am and I pride myself on my vulgarity. How any Canadian can support those bastards who will rip us off at every opportunity is beyond me. Is this what a formal education gets you? Such a disregard for your fellow man that you feel obligated to steal from him because your political pals can protect you. Appoint me to the bench and see what those assholes would get! I guarantee you it would be something that would make even that idiot Peter Loewenbrau burn his LPC membership card.
and another thing….. to the idiot who said that Liberal support has gone up 16 % in Alberta…. Do you know where it may be coming from? It’s from those Easterners who come to Alberta to make money to send back to Eastern Canada . Don’t worry. By the time the election rolls around, these people will have earned enough”stamps” they will be back in Eastern Canada drawing poegey!
16% my ass!
Yes, I feel obliged to steal. That is what I learnt in university. Sorry that it makes you so mad, but it’s just the way it is.
Also, I was born in Alberta during the oil boom, but then moved back to Ontario with my family. I hope this makes you mad as well.
Finally, the Liberal party had those polling numbers made up, just to piss you off. There are no depths to which the LPC won’t sink to make you, and you personally, feel angry, even ALL CAPS angry.
Peter Lowenbrau,
Every time I capped a letter, I was mentally applying a karate chop to your stupid head!
It begs the question where are the RCMP in all of this. Are they so far in the pockets of the Liberals that they just turn a blind eye to all the corruption. They also benefitted from ADSCAM and misdirected the funds they received into a secret bank account and in turn went out and bought new horses. Not what the money was for. Anyone know if anything was ever done about this? Where did the $1 billion go that was squandered at HRDC? What about the $2 billion so far for the gun registry? Liberal corruption = RCMP blind eye = RCMP corruption = a democracy(???) modelled after that in Zimbabwe. We’re all doomed!
Hey Bobby: I am not sure if you noticed, but this post began in a discussion about Paul Coffin, who was just convicted on charges brought by the RCMP.
The karate chops were mentally applied? No wonder I didn’t feel them.
When I see farmers going to jail for selling their own wheat, and then watch a crook escape jail after he steals 1.5 million, I see a liberal justice system at work.
Peter Loewenbrau,
Your sarcasm is as weak as your ability to think for yourself. You come across as someone to stupid to follow a menstruating elephant through two , that’s TWO, feet of soft snow.
Squid Out!
Paul Coffin, (what an apt name), was not tried in a Canadian Court- he was tried in a Quebec court! (There is a very big difference- ripping off the rest of Canada is not a crime in Quebec.)